tgt@cbosgd.ATT.COM (Tim Thompson) (11/14/86)
I sent out a note to a bunch of sites during the middle of the summer
requesting that their map data, which dated back to 1984, be brought
up-to-date. A handful of people replied.
Again, on October 16th, I sent out a slightly nastier note to the sites
that hadn't replied during the summer to send in an update for their
out-of-date map data. Again, a handful replied. In the letter of 16 Oct.,
I also stated that any site which had not replied by the middle of
November risked being removed from the map, because I would have to
assume that they were dead.
Well, it's now the middle of November, and the following is the list of
sites to be removed. I'm not going to do any removing until the middle
of December, so as to try and give the sites who are still around ONE
LAST CHANCE at getting things up-to-date. If no update is received,
these sites will no longer exist. When this happens, I'll be sure
to make a posting to new.news.sa and new.news.config, so that the
SA's out there will know to remove all links to the sites that are
removed.
If you read this message and know that one of the sites listed below
still exists, please forward this message on to the SA of that site,
or to someone you know there, and request that s/he forward it onto
the SA.
By the way, I'll be doing the same type of thing during the beginning
of the year with sites whose last update dates back to 1985. Once the
new year rolls around, any map data dated 1985 will be more than
a year old, and that's just too long! So if your latest data was
send to cbosgd!uucpmap in 1985, now would be a good time to
update things.
Finally, if you are the SA on one of the sites listed below, and aren't
exactly sure HOW to submit a new map to the UUCP Project, please send
e-mail to me, and I'll get the necessary electronic form sent to you.
That way, I'll know for sure you do exist, and will know not to remove
you from the maps.
Sincerely,
Tim Thompson
cbosgd!tgt
Map maintainer for Indiana,
Illinois, North Carolina,
Ohio, Pennsylvania, and
Tennessee
SITE TO BE REMOVED IF AN UPDATE IS NOT SUBMITTED BY DECEMBER 15TH:
Indiana:
pur-phy: 1984
Illinois:
ccvaxa: 1984
cdlncch: 1984
invest: 1984
laidbak: 1984
oddjob: 1984
parks1: 1984
tmq: 1984
uniq: 1984
North Carolina:
dvamc: 1984
psyche: 1984
Ohio:
cdcvax: 1984
cincy: 1985
kentmath: 1984
kentonyx: 1984
kentvax: 1984
mddc: 1984
medman: 1984
qusavx: 1984
Pennsylvania:
presby: 1984
uofp: 1984
Tennessee:
All up-to-date. LET'S HEAR IT FOR TENNESSEE!!!!!!!
--
Timothy G. Thompson AT&T Network Systems Columbus, Ohio
cbosgd!tgt
DISCLAIMER: These ramblings are my own. However, a thousand monkeys pounding
on a thousand typewriters would eventually produce the exact same thing!!mangler@cit-vax.Caltech.Edu (System Mangler) (11/15/86)
A map entry has two parts: site description, and pathalias data.
At least around here, the latter loses its validity much faster
than the former.
Stale pathalias data leads to bad paths; it should be flushed
out much more quickly than is being done. But a stale site
description harms no one; in fact, keeping it for a long time
has the benefit of warding off name duplications. It also
aids later attempts to contact the delinquent site admin.
Flushing a site's pathalias data doesn't affect the site's
reachability, it just means that the site is considered a
"black hole", because the SA clearly doesn't pay attention.
If routes expired after 6 months, there would be fewer routes
to choose from, but at least the ones remaining would work!
Don Speck speck@vlsi.caltech.edu {seismo,rutgers}!cit-vax!speckgam@amdahl.UUCP (G A Moffett) (11/16/86)
In article <1186@cit-vax.Caltech.Edu> mangler@cit-vax.Caltech.Edu (System Mangler) writes: > A map entry has two parts: site description, and pathalias data. > At least around here, the latter loses its validity much faster > than the former. > ... [ suggesting removing the pathalias data rather than the > the whole entry ] I think this is a good idea! Let there be two expirations, one for the pathalias data (say, 1 year) and for the site description (say, 2 years). Then, note in the #W and/or #R lines about the currentness of the entry (when the pathalias data got expired). I will impliment this in the map regions I am coordinating; instead of deleting the whole map entry after the entry is a year old, just drop the pathalias data, if no updates have been received. (The regions I handle are Michigan, Wisconsin, New York state, and the Dakotas). -- Gordon A. Moffett {whatever}!amdahl!gam ~ Ah don't need no diamond ring ~ ~ Ah don't need no Cadillac car! ~ ~ Ah just wanna drink my Lone Star beer ~ ~ Down in the Lightnin' bar! ~ -- [ The opinions expressed, if any, do not represent Amdahl Corporation ]
tgt@cbosgd.ATT.COM (Tim Thompson) (11/16/86)
I sent out a note to a bunch of sites during the middle of the summer
requesting that their map data, which dated back to 1984, be brought
up-to-date. A handful of people replied.
Again, on October 16th, I sent out a slightly nastier note to the sites
that hadn't replied during the summer to send in an update for their
out-of-date map data. Again, a handful replied. In the letter of 16 Oct.,
I also stated that any site which had not replied by the middle of
November risked being removed from the map, because I would have to
assume that they were dead.
Well, it's now the middle of November, and the following is the list of
sites to be removed. I'm not going to do any removing until the middle
of December, so as to try and give the sites who are still around ONE
LAST CHANCE at getting things up-to-date. If no update is received,
these sites will no longer exist. When this happens, I'll be sure
to make a posting to new.news.sa and new.news.config, so that the
SA's out there will know to remove all links to the sites that are
removed.
If you read this message and know that one of the sites listed below
still exists, please forward this message on to the SA of that site,
or to someone you know there, and request that s/he forward it onto
the SA.
By the way, I'll be doing the same type of thing during the beginning
of the year with sites whose last update dates back to 1985. Once the
new year rolls around, any map data dated 1985 will be more than
a year old, and that's just too long! So if your latest data was
send to cbosgd!uucpmap in 1985, now would be a good time to
update things.
Finally, if you are the SA on one of the sites listed below, and aren't
exactly sure HOW to submit a new map to the UUCP Project, please send
e-mail to me, and I'll get the necessary electronic form sent to you.
That way, I'll know for sure you do exist, and will know not to remove
you from the maps.
Sincerely,
Tim Thompson
cbosgd!tgt
Map maintainer for Indiana,
Illinois, North Carolina,
Ohio, Pennsylvania, and
Tennessee
SITE TO BE REMOVED IF AN UPDATE IS NOT SUBMITTED BY DECEMBER 15TH:
Indiana:
pur-phy: 1984
Illinois:
ccvaxa: 1984
cdlncch: 1984
invest: 1984
laidbak: 1984
oddjob: 1984
parks1: 1984
tmq: 1984
uniq: 1984
North Carolina:
dvamc: 1984
psyche: 1984
Ohio:
cdcvax: 1984
cincy: 1985
kentmath: 1984
kentonyx: 1984
kentvax: 1984
mddc: 1984
medman: 1984
qusavx: 1984
Pennsylvania:
presby: 1984
uofp: 1984
Tennessee:
All up-to-date. LET'S HEAR IT FOR TENNESSEE!!!!!!!
--
Timothy G. Thompson AT&T Network Systems Columbus, Ohio
cbosgd!tgt
DISCLAIMER: These ramblings are my own. However, a thousand monkeys pounding
on a thousand typewriters would eventually produce the exact same thing!!root@sbcs.UUCP (Root) (11/16/86)
Tim Thompson rambles: > > I sent out a note to a bunch of sites during the middle of the summer > requesting that their map data, which dated back to 1984, be brought > up-to-date. A handful of people replied. > > Again, on October 16th, I sent out a slightly nastier note to the sites > that hadn't replied during the summer to send in an update for their > out-of-date map data. Again, a handful replied. In the letter of 16 Oct., > I also stated that any site which had not replied by the middle of > November risked being removed from the map, because I would have to > assume that they were dead. > > Well, it's now the middle of November, and the following is the list of > sites to be removed. I'm not going to do any removing until the middle > of December, so as to try and give the sites who are still around ONE > LAST CHANCE at getting things up-to-date. If no update is received, > these sites will no longer exist. When this happens, I'll be sure > to make a posting to new.news.sa and new.news.config, so that the > SA's out there will know to remove all links to the sites that are > removed. > -- The ramblings go on for a while -- > Timothy G. Thompson AT&T Network Systems Columbus, Ohio > cbosgd!tgt > DISCLAIMER: These ramblings are my own. However, a thousand monkeys pounding > on a thousand typewriters would eventually produce the exact same thing!! I'm not one of the affected sites, but it seems to me that Tim's ramblings are reminiscent in tone to those of a petty dictator in some banana republic. Do we actually need this sort of individual running _any_ corner of reality? What's your opinion? Rick Spanbauer SUNY/Stony Brook
ccplumb@watnot.UUCP (Colin Plumb) (11/18/86)
In article <235@sbcs.UUCP> root@sbcs.UUCP (Root) writes: > >I'm not one of the affected sites, but it seems to me that Tim's ramblings >are reminiscent in tone to those of a petty dictator in some banana republic. >Do we actually need this sort of individual running _any_ corner of >reality? What's your opinion? > Rick Spanbauer > SUNY/Stony Brook Yes. And please post personal attacks such as this to /dev/null. They have *no* place whatsoever in this newsgroup. Thank you. -Colin Plumb (ccplumb@watnot.UUCP) Zippy says: Is he the MAGIC INCA carrying a FROG on his shoulders?? Is the FROG his GUIDELIGHT?? It is curious that a DOG runs already on the ESCALATOR...
wje@ait.com.AIT.COM (Bill Earl) (11/18/86)
> Tim Thompson rambles: >> ... >> LAST CHANCE at getting things up-to-date. If no update is received, >> these sites will no longer exist. When this happens, I'll be sure >> ... > I'm not one of the affected sites, but it seems to me that Tim's ramblings > are reminiscent in tone to those of a petty dictator in some banana republic. > ... > Rick Spanbauer Tim's plan seems eminently reasonable to me. I must often mark sites "dead" in the argument list to pathalias to avoid having users' mail autorouted via a non-responding site. It seems quite reasonable to at least mark non-responding sites as "dead" in the pathalias database, if their SA's are unwilling to update their map entry every year or so. uucp mail depends on cooperation, and uncooperative sites place a burden on all others, in terms of the need to update the maps manually. Tim's plan places the burden on the uncooperative sites. William J. Earl American Information Technology, Cupertino, CA 95014, USA 1-408-252-8713 wje@lewey.ait.com -- William J. Earl American Information Technology, Cupertino, CA 95014, USA 1-408-252-8713 wje@lewey.ait.com
roy@phri.UUCP (Roy Smith) (11/18/86)
> Tim Thompson [cbosgd!tgt] wrote earlier: > [...] If no update is received, these sites will no longer exist. When > this happens, I'll be sure to make a posting [...] so that the SA's out > there will know to remove all links to the sites that are removed. In article <235@sbcs.UUCP> root@sbcs.UUCP (Root, aka Rick Spanbauer) replies: > I'm not one of the affected sites, but it seems to me that Tim's ramblings > are reminiscent in tone to those of a petty dictator in some banana republic. > [...] What's your opinion? My opinion is that Rick is over reacting. Why is it that everytime somebody tries to do something useful, they get shot down? Rick Adams says "I'm willing to run a Usenet backbone, but I can't afford to carry all the crap on net.abortion" and people cry "A backbone needs a spine!" Gene Spafford tries to keep people from running rampant with newgroups and people cry "Fascist!" Tim Thompson tries to get his part of the Usenet map up to date and people cry "Dictator!" Come on people, give these guys a break. A fairly small bunch of people put a lot of time and effort into getting the Usenet map organized and trying to keep it up to date. Because they do, I don't have to look in a crystal ball or muck around with goat entrails to find a path to someplace I've never heard of. If all I have to do to help these guys out is send in a new map entry a couple of times a year, that seems like a pretty damn impressive return on my investment. -- Roy Smith, {allegra,cmcl2,philabs}!phri!roy System Administrator, Public Health Research Institute 455 First Avenue, New York, NY 10016 "you can't spell deoxyribonucleic without unix!"
reid@decwrl.DEC.COM (Brian Reid) (11/18/86)
In article <235@sbcs.UUCP> root@sbcs.UUCP (Root) writes: >I'm not one of the affected sites, but it seems to me that Tim's ramblings >are reminiscent in tone to those of a petty dictator in some banana republic. >Do we actually need this sort of individual running _any_ corner of >reality? What's your opinion? > > Rick Spanbauer > SUNY/Stony Brook Nobody is going to power down those sites. They are going to take them out of the maps. He's not being a dictator, he's being a janitor, cleaning up after sloppy people. The map data is used to route mail. The presence of an entry in the map says that the site has responsible people running it, and that it is ok to route mail through it. If a site doesn't answer repeated messages, then it is not OK to route mail through that site, and it should be removed from the maps. There is no law that says a site has to be responsible, but if they aren't, they shouldn't relay mail for other people.
kds@mipos3.UUCP (Ken Shoemaker ~) (11/19/86)
well, I think that the expiration of sites is a GOOD THING. I have discovered
that it is impossible to get a site out of the site thingies that get
distributed every month...I know I've tried to get a site that I know isn't
there anymore out, but every month....there it is again! If only it would
expire, I wouldn't have to bother screaming into the wind...But hopefully
having it expire would be a bit more effective than my screaming into the wind!
blah!
--
The above views are personal.
I've seen the future, I can't afford it...
Ken Shoemaker, Microprocessor Design, Intel Corp., Santa Clara, California
uucp: ...{hplabs|decwrl|amdcad|qantel|pur-ee|scgvaxd|oliveb}!intelca!mipos3!kds
csnet/arpanet: kds@mipos3.intel.comsteve@umnd-cs.UUCP (Steven M. Miller) (11/19/86)
In article <235@sbcs.UUCP>, root@sbcs.UUCP (Root) writes: > Tim Thompson rambles: > > > > I sent out a note to a bunch of sites during the middle of the summer > > requesting that their map data, which dated back to 1984, be brought > > up-to-date. A handful of people replied. > > > I'm not one of the affected sites, but it seems to me that Tim's ramblings > are reminiscent in tone to those of a petty dictator in some banana republic. > Do we actually need this sort of individual running _any_ corner of > reality? What's your opinion? > > Rick Spanbauer > SUNY/Stony Brook Tim is simply trying to keep our uucp maps which are already 2mb down to a reasonable size by removing old useless information. Tim spends a lot of his *own* time keeping the maps for several states up to date, something I bet you're not doing. I agree the tone of his letter wasn't perfect but in the anarchy of usenet that's the only tone that people listen to. What's my opinion? Yes, we need this sort of individual running the corners of reality. -steve -- Spoken: Steven M. Miller UUCP: umnd-cs!steve CSNET: steve%umn-duluth.csnet ARPA: steve%umnd-cs-gw.ARPA@umn-rei-uc.ARPA USNail: Computer Science Dept, University of Minnesota at Duluth 10 University Drive, Duluth, MN 55812