root@libove.UUCP (The Super User) (06/14/88)
There has been a great deal of talk about the UseNet dying, not dying, groups being removed, flame wars, sites dropping off, commercialization, what to do about it, etc... sun!pitstop!sundc!hadron!inco!mack (Dave Mack) suggested brainstorming and sending ideas to him, he's willing to help coordinate. I think that is a great first step - someone offering to coordinate ideas. I'll throw in that boat too - Please CC me in on mail to Dave Mack, and I'll get in touch with him, and we'll try to start a "concerned users group" or something like that... What kinds of things "need" to happen? Are likely to happen? Well, a few people have mentioned the origins of the net being technical, so why not go back to that. And people have mentioned that the net is not all technical anymore, so what go back to that. Both sides have valid points. I attend Carnegie Mellon University, home of the Andrew network system. That system gives (currently) Six Thousand Eight Hundred users the ability to read and post to the UseNet. That is at one site only. Most of those users couldn't care less about technical things. How many of the 6800 actually use the usenet, I don't know. Probably only three or four hundred. But that is still a lot. I side with the view that the network is no longer technical, even though I subscribe to about thirty technical news groups, sources news groups, admin groups, and by the way I read rec.arts.poems. So, the network has changed, and we can't just chop off non-technical groups. That wouldn't be fair to a significant portion of the users. But we can try to cut out some noise. Moderation has been of fantastic value in calming down flame wars, lowering the noise-to-signal ratio, etc... I would like to see the talk., soc., rec. newsgroups moderated too. Groups like rec.arts.poems won't change much at all. Groups like talk.misc, soc.singles, soc.women, soc.men, etc.. will change greatly. I used to read soc.singles. Two hundred fifty posts a day made me stop reading more than a year ago. Most of those posts were repetetive and carried no new individual value. A moderator could cut down the volume probably by fifty or sixty percent. Any volunteers for moderating soc.* ? People have recommended killing the binary news groups. Granted, those groups serve only small computer users, like IBM PC users and AMIGA and MacINTOSH users. Those people do not provide continuation for the network, they are end users only. Perhaps the binary news groups should go away - but the sources for those programs should be available on the net, and should still be posted via moderated source groups. Notice that there is a comp.sources.misc, moderated, covering many types of systems. I propose that comp.sources.misc be broken up in to comp.sources.amiga, comp.sources.msdos,etc... and all moderated of course. Yes, this is going to cut out many small users who don't have compilers. But, a compiler isn't that expensive if you really use it well. Binaries take up much bandwidth for a very specific audience (a binary for MSDOS on the IBMPC and compatibles *won't* work on a DEC Rainbow, even though the rainbow uses MSDos... but the sources will probably build on both). There is some redundancy in the network now. I posted this notice to news.admin, news.sysadmin, and news.groups (unusual to post a "let's cut down" notice to news.groups, but still an appropriate place to discuss major changes in news groups I think) - but what is the difference between news.admin and news.sysadmin? And I'm sure that people can come up with more redundancies than this. (My mailbox is waiting; please, mail them to me!) People have suggested requiring new sites to be able and willing to carry one other site, or else to be paying for their feed. This makes much sense, but as people have mentioned, it hard to enforce; in fact, it is mostly impossible to enforce. Well, I think it is a good idea; as services like UUNET become more popular (and UUNET is a good service, and not very expensive really), part of this will be accomplished by the fact that there will be some central sites billing for their services. It could be on good faith that new sites are created able and willing to handle one more site - usually that won't happen; but their expressed willingness is enough. (Example: My site "libove" is an IBM PC/AT clone, 100 megabytes of hard disk, 8 MHz 80286 processor, running SCO Xenix. I use my voice phone line for data also. I'm connected to two sites now, with two new connections pending, and I'll bend over backwards to connect someone if they want.) And someone mentioned the mythical 'C' news. There was an alpha release posting a few months ago, then mysteriously no discussion to be seen! What happenned to it? What is the status on it? I for one am most willing to devote disk space and CPU cycles to getting 'C' news ported to small architecture machines (SCO Xenix on 80286, 16 bit int, yuck, but it works!) Please, 'C' news people, contact me. Thanks! In closing, I think that the most important thing to remember right now is that real thought is required, and flaming and panic will only be self-fulfilling and dangerous. If you have something to say, read the rest of the posts before saying it. Someone else might have said it already. Mail to the sender exclaiming your enthusiastic support, but don't post it again. Mail ideas to people willing to condense, like me and Dave Mack. Above all, think, and we'll make it through this. -- Jay Libove Internet: libove@cs.cmu.edu 5313 Ellsworth Avenue formtek!ditka!libove!libove@pt.cs.cmu.edu Pittsburgh, PA 15232 UUCP: cmucspt!formtek!ditka!libove!libove (412) 621-9649 cadre!pitt!darth!libove!libove
donegan@stanton.TCC.COM (Steven P. Donegan) (06/16/88)
I would like to suggest that ALL sites with map entries consider providing a uucp (or TCP/IP as appropriate) connection to ALL their local neighbors. This may result in a higher level of local-call (non-toll) communications path for a large number of sites. If a large number of sites provide this level of connectivity fewer long distance (toll-call) should be required to support the net (at least in the continental US states). My site would be happy to feed 1 or more long distance sites. Just trying to make a constructive suggestion, I'm currently an end node on a news/mail feed path and would be happy to attempt to provide support for another site to 'pay my dues' for the sites supporting me. -- Steven P. Donegan Sr. Telecommunications Analyst Western Digital Corp. donegan@stanton.TCC.COM
henry@utzoo.uucp (Henry Spencer) (06/18/88)
> And someone mentioned the mythical 'C' news. There was an alpha release > posting a few months ago, then mysteriously no discussion to be seen! > What happenned to it? What is the status on it? The alpha release works fine, and is in use at quite a few sites. (We get mail from the damndest places...) I assure you that C News isn't mythical. I wish it was, then I could tell Geoff to stop harrassing me about all the things I was supposed to have finished weeks ago... We're working towards a more definitive release, but we've both been busy -- me especially -- and progress is slow. > I for one am most > willing to devote disk space and CPU cycles to getting 'C' news ported > to small architecture machines (SCO Xenix on 80286, 16 bit int, yuck, > but it works!) ... Not a problem, C News already runs on pdp11s. -- Man is the best computer we can | Henry Spencer @ U of Toronto Zoology put aboard a spacecraft. --Von Braun | {ihnp4,decvax,uunet!mnetor}!utzoo!henry