milo@ndmath.UUCP (Greg Corson) (06/26/88)
A fairly simple question...I've been noticing that usenet mail/news feeds
are getting harder and harder to get lately because of the mounting number
of machines that want onto the net.
Do you think there is a NEED for another system which can provide usenet
feeds and mail feeds for a FEE to people who couldn't get them otherwise?
I am in a position where I could probably organize such a system if anyone
would be interested in using it. If it was setup the system would probably
be accessable through Telenet, Tymnet (or something like it) by a local
call in most cities. This might turn out to be a cheaper way of getting
a feed than calling some other network site long distance.
The fees would probably be somewhere around $5 per hour for however much time
it takes to feed your computer all the newsgroups you want. (subject to change,
I haven't looked into the costs too much yet). Services provided would
be limited to UUCP-mail and USENET feeds. Note that this would NOT be
login-and-read/send-mail/news...it would be UUCP access to feed mail/news
to YOUR computer...nothing more.
Please let me know if you think this sort of service is something you (or
someone you know) could use, if there is enough demand I'l see if I can
organize something. Please don't flame me about advertising on the net,
remember that for MANY people who get feeds by long distance this could
be a REAL money saver...and I don't expect to make much money off it in any
case.
Please reply by usenet mail, US mail or phone as I don't get on the net
often enough to avoid missing things posted to news.
Greg Corson
19141 Summers Drive
South Bend, IN 46637
(219) 277-5306 (weekdays till 6 PM eastern)
{pur-ee,rutgers,uunet}!iuvax!ndmath!milo
kls@ditka.UUCP (Karl Swartz) (06/27/88)
In article <1155@ndmath.UUCP> milo@ndmath.UUCP (Greg Corson) writes: >A fairly simple question...I've been noticing that usenet mail/news feeds >are getting harder and harder to get lately because of the mounting number >of machines that want onto the net. > >Do you think there is a NEED for another system which can provide usenet >feeds and mail feeds for a FEE to people who couldn't get them otherwise? Greg, I know this isn't exactly what you had in mind, but what about a west coast uunet? While helping a (non-local) friend look into news feed options, I realized that uunet costs a *lot* more for west coast folks than those who are closer. This is based on a TrailBlazer and paying your own LD phone bills. From much of the east coast, it's about 1/3 the cost of calling the 800 numbers, but from the west the costs are pretty much a toss-up. Of course, this theme could be continued to regional uunet machines-- if the coasts have them, what about the midwest? The problem with that is that the costs of maintaining multiple machines soon drive the costs too high. Not sure where the breakpoint is. A different way of improving things is the regional backbone idea, like the folks in Michigan are doing, maybe combined with the obligation to feed another site if you get a feed--make leaf sites do their share and pass along the favor. -- Karl Swartz |UUCP {emoryu1,pacbell,decvax!formtek}!ditka!kls 1-412/937-4930 office | {pitt,psuvax1}!idis!formtek!ditka!kls |BIX kswartz "I never let my schooling get in the way of my education." (Twain)
davidsen@steinmetz.ge.com (William E. Davidsen Jr) (06/28/88)
In article <317@ditka.UUCP> kls@ditka.UUCP (Karl Swartz) writes: | Greg, I know this isn't exactly what you had in mind, but what about | a west coast uunet? While helping a (non-local) friend look into | news feed options, I realized that uunet costs a *lot* more for west | coast folks than those who are closer. This is based on a TrailBlazer For low budget sites, uunet can be reached by PC Pursuit and Dial America service. This keeps the cost way down. If you need to send stuff during the day, of course, you will still be faced with a stiff bill. If you are looking for a local feed, rather than the gateway features uunet provides, you should be able to find one almost anywhere. I think portal will feed anyone on the west coast for a price, but I have no idea what that price is. -- bill davidsen (wedu@ge-crd.arpa) {uunet | philabs | seismo}!steinmetz!crdos1!davidsen "Stupidity, like virtue, is its own reward" -me
isaac@gethen.UUCP (Isaac Rabinovitch) (07/04/88)
In article <11403@steinmetz.ge.com>, davidsen@steinmetz.ge.com (William E. Davidsen Jr) writes: > For low budget sites, uunet can be reached by PC Pursuit... A good suggestion, which I was thinking of employing myself, but one to be used with caution. You'll note that Telenet is *very* sticky about PC Pursuit not being used for commerical purposes. Doubtless this rule is widely broken, but I think they'd notice and come down on someone operating a news site. If I ever start a news site using PCP, I intend to be very careful that my net activities are non-commercial. ("Just a public discussion system for myself and a few of my associaltes.") If I'm doing anything resembling business, none of it (mail, file transfers) would go over the net. I'd use MCI mail, which is more reliable anyway. After all, they might try to stick me for *all* the network time I had used, and with a UUCP link being up 2 or 3 hours every night, that would be a lot of money!
wisner@killer.UUCP (Bill "Spam Eggs Sausage and Spam" Wisner) (07/08/88)
>A good suggestion, which I was thinking of employing myself, but one to >be used with caution. You'll note that Telenet is *very* sticky about >PC Pursuit not being used for commerical purposes. Would you please, then, explain why TELENET promotes the use of PC Pursuit to access commercial systems like Portal, Mnematics, and Exec PC? Believe me, our friends at US Sprint have no problem with non-commercial people using PC Pursuit to access commercial services. -- Bill Wisner ..!{ames,decwrl,mit-eddie,osu-cis,rutgers}!killer!wisner
jack@swlabs.UUCP (Jack Bonn) (07/08/88)
In article <4737@killer.UUCP> wisner@killer.UUCP (Bill Wisner) writes: >>A good suggestion, which I was thinking of employing myself, but one to >>be used with caution. You'll note that Telenet is *very* sticky about >>PC Pursuit not being used for commerical purposes. > >Would you please, then, explain why TELENET promotes the use of PC Pursuit >to access commercial systems like Portal, Mnematics, and Exec PC? > >Believe me, our friends at US Sprint have no problem with non-commercial >people using PC Pursuit to access commercial services. I have spent the last day trying to unearth some early documentation regarding PC Pursuit which I remember clearly stated that PC Pursuit was appropriate for personal and SMALL BUSINESS applications (emphasis mine). I would be glad to continue looking around. But can anyone tell me: 1) Did I dream this? 2) Did Telenet have a change a heart (or regulation)? 3) If I did see this, can anyone supply the applicable quote? 4) Did I miss an alternative? I _did_ find the following on the PC PURSUIT 800 INFO BBS: PCP> With PC Pursuit, you can: PCP> PCP> ---> Transfer files - such as spreadsheets, word processing documents, PCP> and graphics - to business associates PCP> PCP> ---> Upload and download public domain software from thousands of PCP> Bulletin Board Systems in each PC Pursuit city PCP> PCP> ---> Correspond with friends who have communicating PC's PCP> PCP> ---> Access valuable business information and databases for research PCP> PCP> ---> Shop and advertise in electronic catalogs. I think that the reference to "business associates" in the 4th line is the most telling; I don't believe that PC Pursuit is in any way limited to non-commercial use (even links from commercial to commercial sites). The only thing they seem to forbid is the reselling of services. I would assume that this would forbid uunet from calling me on PC Pursuit and adding a surcharge for this service. Oh well, I guess there are limits to everything. -- Jack Bonn, <> Software Labs, Ltd, Box 451, Easton CT 06612 uunet!swlabs!jack
blair@obdient.UUCP (Doug Blair) (07/11/88)
In article <991@gethen.UUCP>, isaac@gethen.UUCP (Isaac Rabinovitch) writes: > You'll note that Telenet is *very* sticky about > PC Pursuit not being used for commerical purposes. > Hmmmm.... we just signed up here and I'm reviewing the PC Pursuit Terms and Conditions document as I write this. I can't see anything in it which would preclude the use of PCP for commercial purposes. It even mentions that you can access databases and bulliten boards that are operated by entities other than Telent and disassociates Telenet from these ventures. Telenet is a common carrier, just like a voice telephone connection, and you can use it to access commercial systems just like you can use the phone to call businesses. Now (and this is VERY important) using PCP (or anything else) to move business documents or information onto usenet or through mail paths which have not agreed to carry your business traffic is a no-no. But there's no reason why you can't use PCP to make a DIRECT connection from your machine to your client's machine and send whatever you want over the link. How do you think Telenet makes its money during the day? :-) Doug ___ _ _ _ _ / \ | | | | |_| _| |_ Doug Blair_______312-653-5527 | | || |_ ___ _| | _ ___ __ |_ _| Obedient Software Corporation | | || ==\ / ==\ /== | | | / ==\ | \ | | 1007 Naperville Road_________ \___/ |___/ \___/ \___| |_| \___/ |_|_| |_| Wheaton, Illinois 60187______
rlw@ttardis (Ron Wilson) (07/11/88)
Isaac Rabinovitch does have a good point about Telenet's concern for not using PC-Pursuit for "commercial" puposes. What others of you seem to miss is that due to the high volume and "universial" distribution of netnews traffic, Telenet may very well consider that to be "commercial." E-mail traffic, on the other hand is very low volume (relatively) on a "site to site" basis (not to mention the more personal "flavour"); therefore, I suspect that Telenet would have few if any objections to that use. - Ron Wilson
egranthm@jackson.UUCP (Ewan Grantham) (07/12/88)
Well, have been using PC Pursuit to get my home feed of mail/news. Is
anyone here associated with Telenet, and is this ok? I assumed it was
no different than calling 5 different BBS's and downloading 2 megs from
each board...
--
Ewan Grantham (601) 354-6454 ext.358
...!uunet!nuchat!amyerg!egranthm or
{pyramid or bellcore or tness..}!swbatl!jackson!egranthm
I'm not responsible for my bosses, and vice-versajack@swlabs.UUCP (Jack Bonn) (07/13/88)
In article <990117@ttardis.UUCP> rlw@ttardis (Ron Wilson) writes: >Isaac Rabinovitch does have a good point about Telenet's concern for >not using PC-Pursuit for "commercial" puposes. > >What others of you seem to miss is that due to the high volume and "universial" >distribution of netnews traffic, Telenet may very well consider that to be >"commercial." As one of the "others" who are missing the point (some point or another) could you please quote where Telenet forbids "commercial" use of PC Pursuit? I have read my PC Pursuit Terms and Conditions time and time again and I don't even see the word commercial in the text. Is there a later version? Mine is dated 9/86. Let me point out that by moving potentially commercial data like Usenet news it could not be construed that you "(E) you have resold or attempted to resell or further distribute PC Pursuit access services". If PC Pursuit was selling news feeds then this wording would indeed be a stopper, sort of like the problem with redistributing what is received from Compu$erve. But they don't and its not. >E-mail traffic, on the other hand is very low volume (relatively) on a >"site to site" basis (not to mention the more personal "flavour"); therefore, >I suspect that Telenet would have few if any objections to that use. I distinctly remember an early PC Pursuit description that indicated that the service was for personal and small business use. Definitely indicates that commercial use was ok. (Anyway, what is so sinister about commerce?) I will close by saying that I get my uunet feed via PC Pursuit. But the lines into DC (especially at 2400) have been rather busy lately. So please, disregard what I've said and don't chance calling uunet via PC Pursuit. It will leave the lines open for ME. :-) -- Jack Bonn, <> Software Labs, Ltd, Box 451, Easton CT 06612 uunet!swlabs!jack
rsweeney@dasys1.UUCP (Robert Sweeney) (07/14/88)
In article <281@jackson.UUCP> egranthm@jackson.UUCP (Ewan Grantham) writes: >Well, have been using PC Pursuit to get my home feed of mail/news. Is >anyone here associated with Telenet, and is this ok? I assumed it was >no different than calling 5 different BBS's and downloading 2 megs from >each board... As an aside, one thing you do have to be careful about when using PC Pursuit is multiple simultaneous connections using the same account. By all accounts Telenet strongly frowns on the use of one account for several connections at the same time. This can happen easily with UUCP polling if you poll several sites and you're not careful about timing, or if you use your PC Pursuit account for personal calls (BBSes and whatever), and also use it for your UUCP connections. /rs -- Robert Sweeney {sun!hoptoad,cmcl2!phri}!dasys1!rsweeney Big Electric Cat Public Access Unix (212) 879-9031 - System Operator You do it because you're drunk, you're numb, and you just don't care.