[news.sysadmin] A SERIOUS DILEMMA FOR THE NET

allen@sulaco.UUCP (Allen Gwinn) (09/19/88)

To the members of Usenet:

Greetings.  There has emerged, what I feel to be a big problem.  For
a couple of weeks, the net has been plagued with postings from several
"entities" at the Portal System (tm) in California.  The postings are
made from ambiguous accounts such as "Spartan", "Hijacker", "Argent",
"Ankh" etc, ad nauseum.  It is my opinion that the Site Administrator's
decision to let subscribers use these "handles" (and apparently change
them at will) encourages some of them to post irresponsibly, and perhaps
not use the best of judgement when doing it.  I offer as a "for instance"
the fairly recent incident of "jj@cup.portal.com" who posted a plea for
money across the entire net, cross-posting to most of the newsgroups.

This problem might be solved if the management at the Portal System would
simply replace the "XPortal-User-Id:" line with the user's real name.  This
situation would perhaps force a poster to use more discretion prior to
posting, knowing that his or her *real* name would be attached to the 
posting.

If the Site Administrators at the Portal System are still uncertain as
to whether or not they should implement such a thing, perhaps those of
us who feel this way could help them out by assembling as complete a
portfolio of these postings as possible.  Then, mail them to 
'postmaster@cup.portal.com' along with your comments as to why you feel
the postings are inappropriate.  This will aid their staff in resolving
the problem by presenting them with *complete* first-hand evidence.

I thank you, and Usenet thanks you...

-- 
Allen Gwinn  ...sulaco!allen        Disclaimer: The facts stated are my own.
"At the source of every error blamed on a computer you will find at least two
 errors...including the error of blaming it on the computer."

dyer@spdcc.COM (Steve Dyer) (09/19/88)

Could someone fill me in on what some of these "Portal" folks have done?
Other than the "JJ/Rob Noha" episode, I've either been oblivious to their
malfeasance given the general state of USENET, or I'm not reading the
right newsgroups.   In any event, this "letter campaign" seems more than
a little bit disingenuous.  Gad, the alt. groups are being polluted by
being lowered to the level of 15 year olds.  Geez, what's a year between
friends?
-- 
Steve Dyer
dyer@harvard.harvard.edu
dyer@spdcc.COM aka {harvard,husc6,linus,ima,bbn,m2c,mipseast}!spdcc!dyer

kmw@ardent.UUCP (Ken Wallich) (09/20/88)

In article <1891@spdcc.COM> dyer@spdcc.COM (Steve Dyer) writes:
>Could someone fill me in on what some of these "Portal" folks have done?
>Other than the "JJ/Rob Noha" episode, I've either been oblivious to their
>malfeasance given the general state of USENET, or I'm not reading the
>right newsgroups.   In any event, this "letter campaign" seems more than
>a little bit disingenuous.  [...]
>-- 
>Steve Dyer

I must agree.

Allen Gwinn, William B. Thacker, Patricia O Tuama, Oleg Kiselev, 
John F. Haugh II and others write:

A form letter (with some individual quips) telling us of grave problems at
Portal.

A form letter of protest posted to the net?  Perhaps next we can post chain
letters.  Considering the reputation of some of the folks who appear to have
authored this stuff, one wonders whether it is just a big forgery.  I find
it difficult to believe (although not impossible) that all of these folks
suddenly lost the capacity for independent thought.  I could understand
individually crafted letters of concern, but not something like this.

Like Steve I've also noticed no abnormally heavy abuses from Portal lately, 
just seems like the same noise level they usually maintain (although I must 
admit that '/portal/h:j' is in more than one of my local killfiles).  If
you have become disgusted with the level of noise on the net (like me), this 
doesn't seem like the most intellegent way of solving it.

Have we decided that xeroxed (tm) group intimidation works better than 
individual discussion?  Actually, considering how many of the discussions 
have digressed lately.

Humm....

To the members of Usenet:

Nawww.

-- 
Ken Wallich 			 	
Ardent Computer Corp			uunet!ardent!kmw
Sunnyvale, California, USA		"Slimey? Mud hole? My HOME this is!"

childers@unet.pacbell.COM (Richard Childers) (09/21/88)

In article <1891@spdcc.COM> dyer@spdcc.COM (Steve Dyer) writes:

>Could someone fill me in on what some of these "Portal" folks have done?

Could we also see something besides form letter opinions ? Every thing I've
seen with the subject line defined as "A SERIOUS DILEMMA FOR THE NET" has
been the same message, minus tweaks here and there, down to the char count.

-- richard

-- 
  "The leech's kiss, the squid's embrace,   ..!{amdahl,ames,oliveb,pacbell}!
   The prurient ape's defiling touch:        childers@chaos.unet.pacbell.COM
   And do you like the human race ? 
   No, not much."                        -- Aldous Huxley, 'Ape And Essence'

cdaf@iuvax.cs.indiana.edu (Charles Daffinger) (09/21/88)

To the 'rn' question 

'Are you sure you really want to do this? [ny]'

I ought to really ansower `n', but what the hell.....

People are bitching and moaning about the lack of a real user name given 
in the news postings from Portal.com, but, I seem to be confused here,
as most people (including those who have participated in the form-flame)
are using Unix, many even BSD unix or it's variants.  Well, there is a
unix command called 'chfn' which changes the 'finger' entry for the user,
which is also the name which appears in article attributions.  What difference
is there to Unix 'chfn' to the Portal whatever it is which allows arbitrary
name selection?


Confused,

-charles




-- 
Charles Daffinger  >Take me to the river, Drop me in the water<  (812) 339-7354
cdaf@iuvax.cs.indiana.edu             {pur-ee,rutgers,pyramid,ihnp4}!iuvax!cdaf
Home of the Whitewater mailing list:    whitewater-request@iuvax.cs.indiana.edu

msb@sq.uucp (Mark Brader) (09/21/88)

> (although I must 
> admit that '/portal/h:j' is in more than one of my local killfiles).

As of now, "/portal/a:j" is going in *my* kill file for news.admin.
This, of course, kills all articles that even *mention* the p-word.

[No, I'm not a news-admin at the moment.  News.admin these days is
just a second news.misc.  No, I don't like this state of affairs.]

Mark Brader, Toronto	"Those who mourn for 'USENET like it was' should
utzoo!sq!msb		 remember the original design estimates of maximum
msb@sq.com 		 traffic volume: 2 articles/day" -- Steven Bellovin

sean@aquinas.UUCP (Sean McCollister) (09/21/88)

	Before attempting to remove the speck from portal's eye, perhaps we
should remove the beam from our own (well, what did you expect from a guy
who names his computer aquinas? :-))

	Vulgar, obnoxious, vituperative postings filled with name-calling,
threats and ad-hominem attacks are commonplace.  Who can blame the "Portalets"
for trying to fit in?

	This would seem to be a good time for all of us to take a few minutes
and read through "news.announce.newusers" one more time.  PEOPLE read, and
post to, the net.  People will inevitably have disagreements.  If they can't
be resolved, shall we not politely "agree to disagree," and leave it at that?
Why carry on like a bunch of schoolyard bullies?  Why?
<EOS>*
______________________________________________________________________________
* End of Sermonette
sean@aquinas.UUCP or ....killer[!rpp386]!aquinas!sean

jfh@rpp386.Dallas.TX.US (The Beach Bum) (09/21/88)

In article <95@unet.pacbell.COM> childers@unet.PacBell.COM (Richard Childers) writes:
>In article <1891@spdcc.COM> dyer@spdcc.COM (Steve Dyer) writes:
>>Could someone fill me in on what some of these "Portal" folks have done?
>
>Could we also see something besides form letter opinions ? Every thing I've
>seen with the subject line defined as "A SERIOUS DILEMMA FOR THE NET" has
>been the same message, minus tweaks here and there, down to the char count.

childish you ignorant twit.  you DID NOT actually check.  had you actually
looked at all of them you would have noticed that mine was not a cheap
imitation copy of the form letter but a full blown paraphrase in the same
tradition as stolen high school termpapers.  HAD YOU LOOKED you would have
seen this.  but instead you open your asshole and insert your head.

boy, you gotta get your head outa your butt.  if you don't stop putting
your head up your ass people will start thinking you have shit for brains.
-- 
John F. Haugh II (jfh@rpp386.Dallas.TX.US)                   HASA, "S" Division

      "Why waste negative entropy on comments, when you could use the same
                   entropy to create bugs instead?" -- Steve Elias

childers@unet.pacbell.COM (Richard Childers) (09/24/88)

In article <6925@rpp386.Dallas.TX.US> jfh@rpp386.Dallas.TX.US (The Beach Bore) writes:

>childish you ignorant twit.  you DID NOT actually check.  had you actually

Ho, hum, this 'childish' stuff is ... well, childish, y'know ?

>looked at all of them you would have noticed that mine was not a cheap
>imitation copy of the form letter but a full blown paraphrase in the same

You barefaced liar. They were so similar I'd have to study for longer than
is worth my time to find the differences.

>tradition as stolen high school termpapers.  HAD YOU LOOKED you would have

Speak for yourself, peckerwood. I quit high school to go to college.

>seen this.  but instead you open your asshole and insert your head.

Ah, now we get to the intellectual substance of the communique ...

>boy, you gotta get your head outa your butt.  if you don't stop putting
>your head up your ass people will start thinking you have shit for brains.

There we go. John F. Huhhh? II at his shining, whining best. Impressive, huh ?

>John F. Huhhh? II (jfh@rpp386.Dallas.TX.US)              HASA, "S" Division

-- richard

-- 
  "The leech's kiss, the squid's embrace,   ..!{amdahl,ames,oliveb,pacbell}!
   The prurient ape's defiling touch:        childers@chaos.unet.pacbell.COM
   And do you like the human race ? 
   No, not much."                        -- Aldous Huxley, 'Ape And Essence'

allbery@ncoast.UUCP (Brandon S. Allbery) (09/25/88)

As quoted from <105@unet.pacbell.COM> by childers@unet.pacbell.COM (Richard Childers):
+---------------
| In article <6925@rpp386.Dallas.TX.US> jfh@rpp386.Dallas.TX.US (The Beach Bore) writes:
| There we go. John F. Huhhh? II at his shining, whining best. Impressive, huh ?
+---------------

Nothing like a cure that's worse than the disease, huh?  At least Naha's
noise had some entertainment value.

++Brandon
-- 
Brandon S. Allbery, uunet!marque!ncoast!allbery			DELPHI: ALLBERY
	    For comp.sources.misc send mail to ncoast!sources-misc
"Don't discount flying pigs before you have good air defense." -- jvh@clinet.FI

ejp@ausmelb.oz (Esmond Pitt) (10/05/88)

In article <366@pcsbst.UUCP> pcsbst!jkh@pcsbst.UUCP (Jordan K. Hubbard) writes:
>
> I must agree with Ken. It certainly is a problem when an entire

Brilliant.  So far this message has appeared 8 times, and it gets more
boring every time. This appears to be deliberate:

    Posted: Mon Sep 26 14:56:15 1988
    Posted: Mon Sep 26 14:56:15 1988
    Posted: Fri Sep 30 12:16:16 1988
    Posted: Fri Sep 30 16:08:22 1988
    Posted: Mon Oct  3 12:48:51 1988
    Posted: Mon Oct  3 13:15:05 1988
    Posted: Mon Oct  3 13:19:07 1988
    Posted: Mon Oct  3 18:15:45 1988

Could somebody stop the rot please. Thanks.

(German thoroughness? :-))

-- 
Esmond Pitt, Austec International Ltd
...!uunet.UU.NET!munnari!ausmelb!ejp,ejp@ausmelb.oz

weemba@garnet.berkeley.edu (Obnoxious Math Grad Student) (10/06/88)

In article <775@ausmelb.oz>, ejp@ausmelb (Esmond Pitt) writes:

>>[about Jordan Hubbard's duplicate message]

>Brilliant.  So far this message has appeared 8 times, and it gets more
>boring every time. This appears to be deliberate:

I wrote to him and asked if this was a meta-joke or not.  He replied
that it was not, and he has no idea why his message appeared so many
times.

ucbvax!garnet!weemba	Matthew P Wiener/Brahms Gang/Berkeley CA 94720

jkh@pcsbst.UUCP (Jordan K. Hubbard) (10/11/88)

I must agree with Ken. It certainly is a problem when an entire
organization [Portal] practically encourages net.abuse and gives voice
to those who would probably be better off standing on a folding chair at
Speakers Corner. This form letter, however, seems to be little more than
a page torn from the same book. Granted, it's better written than the average
portal prose and was probably actually run through spell before posting [grin],
but it's still pretty dry reading after the 5th incarnation. Who are you
trying to punish, the portal people or the rest of the net?

Something most Americans don't realize (and I speak from experience) is that
a lot of this stuff goes all over the world. Us expatriate American folks
living abroad get a real kick out of being able to read the alt.stuff
and would be very unhappy if it got yanked because of a far-too-low SNR.
Once someone downstream yanks something, it's pretty hard to convince
them to put it back. The Germans are stubborn that way. So, please, flame
where flaming is due, but realize that every byte costs significant bucks
over-all. Why not send those form letters to postmaster@portal? It seems
to me that's where they'd do the most good. Better yet, talk to the sites
that feed them. Perhaps the possibility of total isolation would
serve as a more effective deterrent.

						Jordan

yelorose@juniper.uucp (Bob Mosley III) (10/13/88)

[yet another "I agree with Ken about the Portal idiots" reposting expurgated]


...anyone have an idea as to WHY this is getting reposted again? Could it be
something along the lines of someone having some sort of autokill & autosend
file installed?

...either way, can the sender be prevented from wasting bandwidth like this in
the future?

(yeah, it's the same old "Gee, how *DO* you get rid of idiots on the net?")


							OM

allbery@ncoast.UUCP (Brandon S. Allbery) (10/14/88)

As quoted from <15057@agate.BERKELEY.EDU> by weemba@garnet.berkeley.edu (Obnoxious Math Grad Student):
+---------------
| In article <775@ausmelb.oz>, ejp@ausmelb (Esmond Pitt) writes:
| >>[about Jordan Hubbard's duplicate message]
| 
| >Brilliant.  So far this message has appeared 8 times, and it gets more
| >boring every time. This appears to be deliberate:
| 
| I wrote to him and asked if this was a meta-joke or not.  He replied
| that it was not, and he has no idea why his message appeared so many
| times.
+---------------

It's not the only net posting that I've seen repeated multiple times; I'd
guess that someone's news system is screwed up.

Did someone at HP screw up the notesfiles configuration again...?

++Brandon
-- 
Brandon S Allbery uunet!hal.cwru.edu!ncoast!allbery allbery%ncoast@hal.cwru.edu
(LAST RESORT ONLY:  allbery@uunet.uu.net)			DELPHI: ALLBERY
comp.sources.misc is moving off ncoast -- please do NOT send submissions direct
	  "So many articles, so little time...."  -- The Line-Eater

richard@gryphon.COM (Richard Sexton) (11/12/88)

Sorry. Comic relief from all this worm stuff.

-- 
        ``You must have an IQ of at least half a million''  -- Popeye
richard@gryphon.CTS.COM    {backbone...err, well connected site}!gryphon!richard

dempsey@handel.colostate.edu. (Steve Dempsey) (11/13/88)

In article <8660@gryphon.COM> richard@gryphon.COM (Richard Sexton) writes:
>Sorry. Comic relief from all this worm stuff.

Thanks, such relief has been long overdue.

steved@longs.lance.colostate.edu     ...!ncar!handel!dempsey