[news.software.b] MAJOR bug in inews 2.11

taylor@hplabsc.UUCP (02/08/87)

Now that I've bashed my head into the wall for the past four hours
trying to track this one down, it seems that the "-M" flag in the
latest version of inews (2.11) is semi-worthless due to a bug.

Specifically, if I hand it a "from" line that is in uucp notation
rather than internet (e.g. hplabs!taylor instead of taylor@hplabs)
it will ignore the '-M' and make the From: be the person invoking
inews instead.  

This is really a problem!!  Almost all of the postings I get for
both mod.comp-soc and mod.conferences is from someone who used
uucp to get mail to me, rather than the internet.  Soooo....

The documentation of this bug is as follows:

I submitted, via "inews -M -h -F '<reference>' < file" the following
article:

  From: munnari!runx.oz!ronn (Ron Newton)
  Subject: Re: Shareware demise, and the evolution of computer users...
  Newsgroups: mod.comp-soc
  Sender: taylor@hplabs
  Distribution: hpl
  Approved: taylor@hplabs

	[message body]

It appeared in the group as:

  From: taylor@hplabsc.HP.COM (Dave Taylor)
  Subject: Re: Shareware demise, and the evolution of computer users...
  Newsgroups: mod.comp-soc
  Sender: taylor@hplabs
  Distribution: hpl
  Approved: taylor@hplabs

	[message body]

BUT, when I rewrote the From: line and resubmitted it using the
*exact same inews invokation*:

  From: ronn%runx.oz@munnari (really munnari!runx.oz!ronn -- Ron Newton)
  Subject: Re: Shareware demise, and the evolution of computer users...
  Newsgroups: mod.comp-soc
  Sender: taylor@hplabs
  Distribution: hpl
  Approved: taylor@hplabs

it worked as I wanted.  You can go into 'mod.comp-soc' to see how this
one turned out.

Now it might be that this is a deliberate attempt to force people to
use domain-style addressing, but as a moderator with only limited time
to spend on reformatting information from users to be posted, I think
that we're being a bit overly direct.  I'm real close to hacking the
test (presumably there is one) out of inews altogether - after all, if
*I*, as the *moderator* of the group, submit something, then it should
be accepted REGARDLESS OF ADDRESS FORMAT!

If nothing else *** at least document the damn quirk!! ***

	Very miffed, and having wasted a few hours of a Saturday,

					-- Dave Taylor

reid@decwrl.UUCP (02/09/87)

In article <1252@hplabsc.UUCP> taylor@hplabsc.UUCP (Dave Taylor) writes:
>Now that I've bashed my head into the wall for the past four hours
>trying to track this one down, it seems that the "-M" flag in the
>latest version of inews (2.11) is semi-worthless due to a bug.
>
>Specifically, if I hand it a "from" line that is in uucp notation
>rather than internet (e.g. hplabs!taylor instead of taylor@hplabs)
>it will ignore the '-M' and make the From: be the person invoking
>inews instead.  

This is a classic case of a camel being a horse designed by a committee. I
implemented the "-M" option under 2.10.2 and sent the code to Rick Adams. He
included it in 2.10.3 Beta and distributed that to the Beta sites. Mel
Pleasant needed some option to make news do funny things for internal Rutgers
reasons, so he modified my -M option code to do something random (I have
never fully understood what) when a Path was present. When I complained about
this he said "oh well, as long as you make sure there isn't any path present
in the article it will still work the way you want." I grumbled a lot, but
nothing ever came of it. 

A couple of weeks ago I explained this situation on the moderators mailing
list (which should include all of the people likely to use the -M option).
I'm sorry it didn't reach you--it would have saved you a lot of time.

Actually, there is a very good reason why you don't want a uucp-style from
line in a submitted news article, but inews should probably warn you about it
rather than fix it for you. The news distribution mechanism looks at the path
line to see who has seen an article and who hasn't. That's how it avoids
sending a message back to where it came from, thereby causing infinite loops.
But if you preload the path with a mail path from the submitter to the
moderator, then the article will never be sent to any of the hosts along that
path. Depending on the length of that path, this can be a serious problem.

Brian

jbuck@epimass.UUCP (02/09/87)

In article <1252@hplabsc.UUCP> taylor@hplabsc.UUCP (Dave Taylor) writes:
>Now that I've bashed my head into the wall for the past four hours
>trying to track this one down, it seems that the "-M" flag in the
>latest version of inews (2.11) is semi-worthless due to a bug.

>Specifically, if I hand it a "from" line that is in uucp notation
>rather than internet (e.g. hplabs!taylor instead of taylor@hplabs)
>it will ignore the '-M' and make the From: be the person invoking
>inews instead.  

The purpose of the From: line is for mail replies (unless a Reply-To
field is present).  Using the UUCP path you see at hplabs will not
work.  If you change inews the way you want to, the From line will
be useless.  It may as well point to you, as opposed to pointing
nowhere.
-- 
- Joe Buck 	{hplabs,ihnp4,sun,ames}!oliveb!epimass!jbuck	HASA (A,S)
  Entropic Processing, Inc., Cupertino, California

taylor@hplabsc.UUCP (02/09/87)

Brian Reid talks about the motley evolution of the "-M" flag for the 
latest version of inews in reference to my bug posting, and then says

>Actually, there is a very good reason why you don't want a uucp-style from
>line in a submitted news article, but inews should probably warn you about it
>rather than fix it for you. The news distribution mechanism looks at the path
>line to see who has seen an article and who hasn't. 

What's wrong with this statement?  We've suddenly moved from the From:
line to the Path: line!  I *know* what the various headers in the message
are for, and I would certainly *not* want to mess with the Path: field
too much (I would like to be able to change the base mailing address though,
so the path could be something like "Path: hplabsc!comp-soc" when it started
out, rather than "hplabsc!taylor", but that's another story entirely).  
Nonetheless I still haven't been told why the FROM line cannot have a uucp
style address.

My original statement stands:  

	The inability to handle uucp-style From: lines when using the 
	'-M' flag is a bug in inews that should be fixed immediately.

						-- Dave Taylor
						taylor@hplabs.HP.COM

ps: The message Brian sent must have been one of the 180+ messages I
    lost while at USENIX.  Perhaps you could send it to me again, Brian?

jordan@ucbarpa.Berkeley.EDU.UUCP (02/10/87)

If you have a non-domain'ed From: line, you should probably hack it
from ...!hosta!hostb!hostc!user into user@hostc.UUCP for this ...
otherwise, how can anyone do anything with it?  If you just want it for
show (so that the person who submitted it is on the From: line and your
name, Dave Taylor, is in the Sender: line ...), then it should either
be something pathalias can chomp on or pure fluff.

/jordan