tony@catsim.UUCP (02/04/87)
I'm still young on the net (2 months 2 years ago plus 1 week now).
With the questions that I have seen along the lines of "is foo on the net"
and with the questions that I will be getting from my net virgins users
here, I have a question my self to ask.
Is there a database program/file which lists all of the netsites by
country, region, alphabetical? If there is how often is it published?
If a program/file does not exist yet, is there someone in netland that
will develope it so that when I get ask by my users "is company 'johnDoe'
on" the net I can access/look_in in order to find out if the company
is on the net along with the rest of the newsite announcement information.
I'm sorry if I'm asking a dumb question which get asked all of the time.
In none of the introduction documentation is this question answered that
I saw. I feel that if I as a news administrator if I had a netsite
database/file which I could look at to answer my questions I would be
much happer.
I hope that this might be a new idea to the net. I'm looking forward
to any and all answers. Please no major flames.
Thanks
Tony Cratz
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
Disclaimer: The options stated here are mine and not those of my
company (they don't want them!).
UUCP: {hplabs,oliveb,amd}!intelca!catsim!tony
Snail Mail: 4051 Burton Dr
Santa Clara, Ca. 95054
Phone: 408-980-9144reid@decwrl.UUCP (02/05/87)
There is currently a database of net sites posted in the newsgroup mod.map, but it is being phased out and there will not be any replacement database. Save this database--it will gradually become obsolete but it's the best you are going to get.
dce@mips.UUCP (02/09/87)
In article <7960@decwrl.DEC.COM> reid@decwrl.UUCP (Brian Reid) writes: >There is currently a database of net sites posted in the newsgroup mod.map, >but it is being phased out and there will not be any replacement database. >Save this database--it will gradually become obsolete but it's the best you >are going to get. Could you give us a time frame on this "phasing out"? I had planned to include the pathalias stuff, an automated database extractor, and some mailer support in our next release. If the mod.map postings are going to stop, I either don't want to include this stuff, or at best, I would include the current database and a method for deleting paths when users notice that mail isn't making it through a given path. Any information would help. -- David Elliott UUCP: {decvax,ucbvax,ihnp4}!decwrl!mips!dce, DDD: 408-720-1700
jbs@mit-eddie.UUCP (02/09/87)
In article <170@quacky.mips.UUCP> dce@quacky.UUCP (David Elliott) writes: >In article <7960@decwrl.DEC.COM> reid@decwrl.UUCP (Brian Reid) writes: >>[...] >>Save this database--it will gradually become obsolete but it's the best you >>are going to get. >Could you give us a time frame on this "phasing out"? I had planned to >include the pathalias stuff, an automated database extractor, and >some mailer support in our next release. [...] For the purposes of mail routing, the database will continue to be maintained. The difference is that all the sites on the net will not be included. The d.* maps, which will replace the u.* maps, will include only enough data to get the mail to the gateway system for the destination domain, which would then route it further (i.e. within that domain) Jeff Siegal
mark@cbosgd.UUCP (02/10/87)
In article <7960@decwrl.DEC.COM> reid@decwrl.UUCP (Brian Reid) writes: >There is currently a database of net sites posted in the newsgroup mod.map, >but it is being phased out and there will not be any replacement database. >Save this database--it will gradually become obsolete but it's the best you >are going to get. This is very misleading. There are no plans to phase out the map being posted to mod.map. What is happening is that the emphasis is shifting from UUCP hosts to organizational domains. Thus, instead of having 20 entries for 20 UUCP machines that are all owned by Frobozz Inc, we'll have one domain entry for Frobozz's domain, with information about the 1 or 2 gateway machines into Frobozz, and sufficient routing information to get to UUCP hosts beyond their gateway. If you really want the name and phone number of a particular system administrator of a particular internal machine, you can call the contact person on the gateway and get it. This shift is for some important reasons: (1) The current map is just too big. It's at 2MB and growing rapidly. It costs a fortune to ship the whole thing around the net every month. (2) The current map is too hard to keep up to date. I get mail from people who think that there is so much out of date information in the map that they refuse to use it. This problem only gets worse as the map grows. By concentrating on organizations instead of machines, we reduce the problem to a more managable level. (3) The internal details of a company are nobody's business but that company. AT&T in particular does not want it's internal list of system administrators published to the outside; it considers that information very proprietary, and I've been told to stop sending it out. In December, I warned the net that these files (especially *.a.*) would be going away, and that people should save copies if they really want such information. If you treasure lists of people that aren't any of your business, you might as well save the whole map. But there is certainly no plan to make it harder to find a particular company by looking at the map; in fact, this will be easier since domains are based on organizations. Mark Horton Director, the UUCP Project
jbuck@epimass.UUCP (02/11/87)
In article <3339@cbosgd.ATT.COM> mark@cbosgd.ATT.COM (Mark Horton) writes: >In December, I warned the net that these files (especially *.a.*) >would be going away, and that people should save copies if they really >want such information. If you treasure lists of people that aren't any >of your business, you might as well save the whole map. But there is >certainly no plan to make it harder to find a particular company by >looking at the map; in fact, this will be easier since domains are based >on organizations. I'm not interested in finding companies. I'm interested in talking to news administrators, especially when they botch something and screw up the network. This happened dozens of times during the Great Net Renaming, and will continue to happen. It's less embarassing to the guilty party to have things resolved in a phone call than to be flamed all over the net because no one knows how to reach him or her. I agree that a complete UUCP map for the purposes of mail is unnecessary. However, a Usenet map, providing a subset of the information currently in mod.map, is necessary. Such a map is a useful tool in maintaining the network and saving costs (by using information in the map, site administrators in the Bay Area have come up with ways to rearrange their news feeds to save money in the past). If the map is too large to handle on a national basis, perhaps portions of it can be dealt with on a regional basis (ba.map, ne.map, etc). Information about network connectivity is NOT "none of our business", because it affects the external community. Sites with the line-eater bug screw up the whole net, not just other sites in their own company, unless they are leaf nodes. By the same logic, the "sendsys" control message should be removed. -- - Joe Buck {hplabs,ihnp4,sun,ames}!oliveb!epimass!jbuck HASA (A,S) Entropic Processing, Inc., Cupertino, California
rob@briar.UUCP (02/11/87)
In article <3339@cbosgd.ATT.COM> mark@cbosgd.ATT.COM (Mark Horton) writes: >(3) The internal details of a company are nobody's business but that >company. AT&T in particular does not want it's internal list of system >administrators published to the outside; it considers that information >very proprietary, and I've been told to stop sending it out. Why? Are they ashamed of them. :-) There are a few uses of the map, which can't be substituted by the domain system. The first is if I'm looking for a uucp connection. It provides a nice geographical way of finding a connection. The second is finding out the system manager of a system. We recently changed our phone number here at philabs, and we had to phone EVERYONE up and tell them, the maps provided the data. I'm not arguing for or against them just stating what will disappear. rob
dricej@drilex.UUCP (02/12/87)
In article <747@briar.UUCP> rob@briar.philips.com.UUCP (Rob Robertson) writes: >In article <3339@cbosgd.ATT.COM> mark@cbosgd.ATT.COM (Mark Horton) writes: >>(3) The internal details of a company are nobody's business but that >>company. AT&T in particular does not want it's internal list of system >>administrators published to the outside; it considers that information >>very proprietary, and I've been told to stop sending it out. > >Why? Are they ashamed of them. :-) No--they're afraid you might try to hire them all. Seriously, the employee list for nearly any company is considered confidential. Sure, it isn't hard to get ahold of the company phone list at most companies, but when the charges of employee raiding start to fly, that list is considered confidential. >There are a few uses of the map, which can't be substituted by the >domain system. The first is if I'm looking for a uucp connection. >It provides a nice geographical way of finding a connection. >The second is finding out the system manager of a system. We recently >changed our phone number here at philabs, and we had to phone EVERYONE >up and tell them, the maps provided the data. Most of the 'external' links will probably continue to be published. And one should certainly have the phone numbers of the sysadmins of the sites you talk to. The principle behind the domain-oriented maps, though, is that if you can find the person on your company phone list, and his/her site doesn't talk to the outside world, then you needn't publish his/her site. Maybe we can have a special place where companies list the latitude and longitude of their internal machines, without listing anything else. However, in most cases, even this won't add much to the map. Except for large companies with extensive internal nets (many of which, like DEC, don't publish their map today), most of the machines which will disappear are colocated with gateway machines which will not. -- Craig Jackson UUCP: {harvard!axiom,linus!axiom,ll-xn}!drilex!dricej BIX: cjackson
spear@ihlpf.UUCP (02/12/87)
in article <3339@cbosgd.ATT.COM>, mark@cbosgd.ATT.COM (Mark Horton) says: > What is happening is that the emphasis is shifting from UUCP hosts to > organizational domains. Thus, instead of having 20 entries for 20 > UUCP machines that are all owned by Frobozz Inc, we'll have one domain > entry for Frobozz's domain... So this is all assuming that people are using domains - what percentage of sites are actually doing this now? I still get a lot of mail with only a 'bang path' and the current map is invaluable in getting back to people without a domain. Presumably this capability will now be lost unless the organizational domain is known. Steve Spearman ihnp4!ihlpf!spear or for those with foresight, spear @ihlpf.ATT.COM
usenet@soma.UUCP (02/14/87)
In article <882@epimass.UUCP> jbuck@epimass.UUCP (Joe Buck) writes: >If the map is too large to handle on a national basis, perhaps >portions of it can be dealt with on a regional basis (ba.map, ne.map, >etc). I think this is a GREAT idea, but am unsure about the best way to subset things. It seems to support the idea of regional "domains" which many argue about. I hope that we can keep the Administrator information available somehow since it is a nice idea to be able to call the administrator when mail/news problems exist. Stan uucp:{shell,rice,cuae2}!soma!sob Opinions expressed here Olan domain:sob@rice.edu or sob@soma.bcm.tmc.edu are ONLY mine & Barber CIS:71565,623 BBS:(713)790-9004 noone else's.