[news.software.b] "x" field for C news

crash@ckctpa.UUCP (Frank J. Edwards) (05/29/90)

> Are x-ed out groups transmitted downstream?
>
> If they are, is there any way of causing them not to be, short of
> banging them out of all of the entries in the sys files?
>
> --Ed
>
> Edward Vielmetti, U of Michigan math dept <emv@math.lsa.umich.edu>
> comp.archives moderator

I'm porting this thing to the Amiga (actually, it hasn't been difficult --
the code ports very easily, except where my OS is drain-bamaged ;-)

You might try using "=dummy.group" instead of "x".  Then just "bang out"
that one group, "dummy.group".  I don't know if the "x" groups get xmitted
or not, but I would think they have to or a downstream site couldn't get
a full feed unless your local machine accepted a full feed.  Hmmmm...
-----
Frank J. Edwards		ComputerKnowledge Corp
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Palm Harbor, FL  34684-4505	Dallas, TX  75230
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emv@math.lsa.umich.edu (Edward Vielmetti) (05/30/90)

Are x-ed out groups transmitted downstream?

If they are, is there any way of causing them not to be, short of
banging them out of all of the entries in the sys files?

--Ed

Edward Vielmetti, U of Michigan math dept <emv@math.lsa.umich.edu>
comp.archives moderator

urlichs@smurf.sub.org (Matthias Urlichs) (05/31/90)

In news.software.b, article <EMV.90May29180815@duby.math.lsa.umich.edu>,
  emv@math.lsa.umich.edu (Edward Vielmetti) writes:
< 
< Are x-ed out groups transmitted downstream?
< 
No. (Verified by inspecting the source code.)

< If they are, is there any way of causing them not to be, short of
< banging them out of all of the entries in the sys files?
< 
However, junked articles are transmitted downstream. (x-ed out groups aren't
even placed in junk.)
If you don't want that to happen either, I think this fix will do it.
(WARNING: Looks good, currently in use here, but not thoroughly tested.)

NB: You can also bang them out in _your_ sys file entry. But I thing the "x"
entries in the active file are a much better idea.

The change has to be made to relay/procart.c:insart().
Mine currently looks like this (latest patch level - sorry, patch date):

STATIC void
insart(art)
register struct article *art;
{
        if (!(art->a_status&(ST_DROPPED|ST_REFUSED|ST_NEEDATTN))) {
                if (!art->a_filed)                      /* paranoia */
                        (void) fprintf(stderr, "%s: %s not filed by copyart!\n",
                                progname, art->h.h_msgid);
                history(art, STARTLOG);         /* history may be unwritable */
                if (art->a_status&(ST_DROPPED|ST_REFUSED|ST_NEEDATTN))
                        uninsart(art);          /* it was; can't keep the article */
                else if (art->a_status & ST_JUNKED)
                        (void) puts(' - x-ed out');      /* also ends the log line */
                else {
                        transmit(art, exclude); /* writes systems on stdout */
                        (void) putchar('\n');   /* ends the log line */
                        ctlmsg(art);            /* NCMP */
                }
#ifdef FLUSHLOG
                (void) fflush(stdout);          /* crash-proofness */
#endif
        }
        art->a_status &= ~ST_REFUSED;   /* refusal is quite casual & common */
}

BTW, there still are a few comparisons of a_status with things other than
ST_GOOD. Shouldn't these all be changed, just for paranoia's sake?

BTW2, is the problem with refiling fixed by now? (the active file entry
"sci.aquaria =rec.aquaria" causes articles with a Newsgroups line of
"sci.aquaria,rec.aquaria" to be filed under rec.aquaria twice.)

BTW3, if you have any "x" type active entries, the newest rn patches regard
these groups as nonexistent. Good idea if you ask me.
-- 
Matthias Urlichs

henry@utzoo.uucp (Henry Spencer) (05/31/90)

In article <90.150.19:47:11@smurf.sub.org> urlichs@smurf.sub.org (Matthias Urlichs) writes:
>However, junked articles are transmitted downstream. (x-ed out groups aren't
>even placed in junk.)

This was a deliberate decision, because it means your neighbors get (e.g.)
articles that got placed in "junk" because you didn't happen to get the
relevant "newgroup" message.  We suggest not changing this; it was not an
accident.

(In general, it is fair to assume that almost any aspect of these policies
has been thought about at considerable length.  It wasn't easy to get them
right.)

>BTW2, is the problem with refiling fixed by now? (the active file entry
>"sci.aquaria =rec.aquaria" causes articles with a Newsgroups line of
>"sci.aquaria,rec.aquaria" to be filed under rec.aquaria twice.)

I don't think Geoff is upset enough about this to deal with it.  I'm not
either.  The news readers shouldn't show it to you more than once anyway.

tale@cs.rpi.edu (David C Lawrence) (06/01/90)

In <1990May31.165002.1161@utzoo.uucp> henry@utzoo.uucp (Henry Spencer) writes:

   >BTW2, is the problem with refiling fixed by now? (the active file entry
   >"sci.aquaria =rec.aquaria" causes articles with a Newsgroups line of
   >"sci.aquaria,rec.aquaria" to be filed under rec.aquaria twice.)

   I don't think Geoff is upset enough about this to deal with it.  I'm not
   either.  The news readers shouldn't show it to you more than once anyway.

Maybe they shouldn't but they do.  rn and GNUS at least will both show
the article each time it appears in the group on one reading of it
because they don't do Xrefs until the group is exited.  Until this
sort of refiling came up dealing with a unique article that got filed
multiple times in the same group was only a very, very rare issue.

Dave
-- 
   (setq mail '("tale@cs.rpi.edu" "tale@ai.mit.edu" "tale@rpitsmts.bitnet"))

davison@drivax.UUCP (Wayne Davison) (06/02/90)

In <1990May31.165002.1161@utzoo.uucp> henry@utzoo.uucp (Henry Spencer) writes:
> The news readers shouldn't show it to you more than once anyway.

tale@cs.rpi.edu (David C Lawrence) wrote:
> Maybe they shouldn't but they do.

Trn doesn't.  It's smart enough to realise that they are the same article
and skip the extra one.  Threaded rn -- coming soon to a source group near
you!
-- 
Wayne Davison            \  /| / /|\/ /| /(_)     davison%drivax@uunet.uu.net
davison@drivax.UUCP     (_)/ |/ /\|/ / |/  \         ...!uunet!drivax!davison
                           (W   A  Y   N   e)

urlichs@smurf.sub.org (Matthias Urlichs) (06/02/90)

In news.software.b, article <1990May31.165002.1161@utzoo.uucp>,
  henry@utzoo.uucp (Henry Spencer) writes:
< In article <90.150.19:47:11@smurf.sub.org> urlichs@smurf.sub.org (Matthias Urlichs) writes:
< >However, junked articles are transmitted downstream. (x-ed out groups aren't
< >even placed in junk.)
< 
< This was a deliberate decision, because it means your neighbors get (e.g.)
< articles that got placed in "junk" because you didn't happen to get the
< relevant "newgroup" message.  We suggest not changing this; it was not an
< accident.
< 
Long live (a) the pseudo-anarchy of UseNet and (b) local administrators'
politics.

< (In general, it is fair to assume that almost any aspect of these policies
< has been thought about at considerable length.  It wasn't easy to get them
< right.)
< 
I don't dispute that this particular policy is right (= works) for you, or
even for the majority of sites out there. Unfortunately there are other
policies also, and it'd be bad if someone couldn't use CNews just because of
that.

Two resolutions here:
- Further discussion about this via email, please, if any.
- CNews is great. (And yes, I really mean that.)
-- 
Matthias Urlichs

zeeff@b-tech.ann-arbor.mi.us (Jon Zeeff) (06/02/90)

>> The news readers shouldn't show it to you more than once anyway.
>
>> Maybe they shouldn't but they do.
>
>Trn doesn't.  It's smart enough to realise that they are the same article
>and skip the extra one.  Threaded rn -- coming soon to a source group near
>you!

I've been using trn for awhile now and I certainly wouldn't want to 
go back to rn.  Trn is rn plus thread features (discussions suddently 
make more sense) and a subject (thread actually) selection menu that 
speeds up wading through lots of news.  

-- 
Jon Zeeff (NIC handle JZ)	 zeeff@b-tech.ann-arbor.mi.us

richard@pegasus.com (Richard Foulk) (06/07/90)

>> The news readers shouldn't show it to you more than once anyway.

>> Maybe they shouldn't but they do.

>Trn doesn't.  It's smart enough to realise that they are the same article
>and skip the extra one.  Threaded rn -- coming soon to a source group near
>you!
>-- 

Who cares what a non-existent newsreader does?

-- 
Richard Foulk		richard@pegasus.com

mathisen@dali.cs.montana.edu (Jaye Mathisen) (06/08/90)

In article <1990Jun7.024000.4356@pegasus.com> richard@pegasus.com (Richard Foulk) writes:
>
>>Trn doesn't.  It's smart enough to realise that they are the same article
>
>Who cares what a non-existent newsreader does?



Bite thy tongue!  Trn is most certainly alive and well.  It's the neatest
thing since sliced bread.