[news.software.b] C News patch dating

chip@tct.uucp (Chip Salzenberg) (09/21/90)

It is apparent that some people who dislike the C News patch scheme
have become abusive to Geoff and Henry.  Such abuse is stupid and
unwarranted, and I will have no truck with it.

Unfortunately, however, the abusers have apparently gotten Henry's
goat.  To wit:

According to henry@zoo.toronto.edu (Henry Spencer):
>People who moan that they can't tell which old patches they
>need don't seem to ever have *looked* at one of our patches.

This statement is, to be blunt, hogwash.  I have seen every single
patch to C News, and I've applied them all.  I remain unconvinced that
the C News patch system is viable as a long-term solution.  (And I do
not consider my complaints to be mere "moaning.")

As the list of previous patches gets longer and longer, I grow more
and more uncomfortable.  How easy it might be to miss a patch.  How
difficult it might be to clean up afterwards, if I make that mistake.

>The balance is perhaps slightly against dating, but hardly strong
>enough to justify the vehement outpourings on the subject and the
>tendency to blame it for all C News's ills.

I don't think anyone can reasonably blame patch dating for C News'
other problems -- which, I might add, have been few.  Nevertheless,
many reasonable people believe that patch dating is itself one of the
problems of C News.

Usenet maintenance is a job that many people do part-time, and often
the time they use is their own.  Keeping track of an ever-growing list
of patch dates is just one more complication.  In my opinion, anything
that further complicates a Usenet administrator's job is a Bad Thing.
-- 
Chip Salzenberg at Teltronics/TCT     <chip@tct.uucp>, <uunet!pdn!tct!chip>

srg@quick.com (Spencer Garrett) (09/23/90)

In article <26FA3C1B.5BB@tct.uucp>, chip@tct.uucp (Chip Salzenberg) writes:
> According to henry@zoo.toronto.edu (Henry Spencer):
> >People who moan that they can't tell which old patches they
> >need don't seem to ever have *looked* at one of our patches.
> 
> This statement is, to be blunt, hogwash.  I have seen every single
> patch to C News, and I've applied them all.  I remain unconvinced that
> the C News patch system is viable as a long-term solution.  (And I do
> not consider my complaints to be mere "moaning.")

Now, Chip.  What Henry is alluding to is that each Cnews patch begins
with a *complete list* of each and every preceeding patch.  Larry Wall's
patch program will happily check that you've applied *all* of the
previous patches, so you really have to work at it to get them out
of order.  The only problem I can see is that it isn't possible to predict
the name of the *next* patch so you can retrieve it from an archive
that doesn't supply directory listings.  I personally rename the
patches to patch.yymmdd form when I get them so they sort properly in
my directory listings, but that doesn't require Henry to change anything.

chip@tct.uucp (Chip Salzenberg) (09/24/90)

According to srg@quick.com (Spencer Garrett):
>What Henry is alluding to is that each Cnews patch begins
>with a *complete list* of each and every preceeding patch.
>Larry Wall's patch program will happily check that you've
>applied *all* of the previous patches ...

No, it won't.  Only the last "Prereq:" is actually used.
Check the code.  Look in "pch.c"; search for "Prereq".
-- 
Chip Salzenberg at Teltronics/TCT     <chip@tct.uucp>, <uunet!pdn!tct!chip>

davison@dri.com (Wayne Davison) (09/25/90)

Spencer Garrett (srg@quick.com) wrote:
> What Henry is alluding to is that each Cnews patch begins
> with a *complete list* of each and every preceeding patch.  Larry Wall's
> patch program will happily check that you've applied *all* of the
> previous patches, so you really have to work at it to get them out
> of order.

Just to correct one misconception, to prevent anyone from attempting to
rely on it:  the patch program checks only ONE prerequisite -- the last
one it sees before a patch.  Having the others listed as prerequisites is
mainly for human consumption.  This is not to say that a C news patch is
easy to get out of order, however, since the immediately prior patch is
listed last.
-- 
 \  /| / /|\/ /| /(_)     Wayne Davison
(_)/ |/ /\|/ / |/  \      davison@dri.com
   (W   A  Y   N   e)     ...!uunet!drivax!davison

steve@nshore.uucp (Stephen Walick) (09/25/90)

As quoted from <1990Sep23.210012.172@NCoast.ORG> by allbery@NCoast.ORG (Brandon S. Allbery KB8JRR):

+---------------
| As quoted from <26FA3C1B.5BB@tct.uucp> by chip@tct.uucp (Chip Salzenberg):
| +---------------
| | Unfortunately, however, the abusers have apparently gotten Henry's
| | goat.  To wit:
| | 
| | According to henry@zoo.toronto.edu (Henry Spencer):
| | >People who moan that they can't tell which old patches they
| | >need don't seem to ever have *looked* at one of our patches.
| +---------------
| 
| It's not so much not knowing which ones you missed, as knowing *in a timely
| manner* which ones you missed....  [ heavily edited ]
+---------------

Reading this article after the one to which I had posted a follow-up,
I compliment you for your comments on the subject.  Postings in this
news group have boardered on the bazar, whereas yours is very much to
the point, and I publically commend you for that.

+---------------
| In this particular case, Steve Walick had already requested the patches
| from Henry for his private system, so I got him to mail them to me....
+---------------

Lest there be any confusion on this point, in a message reply from Henry
Spencer to myself, he had given me the site from which I could 'uucp'
obtain the Cnews patches, viz., osu-cis, and stated that he would rather
*not* establish a precedent of personally sending the Cnews patches out
because of other committments that he presently has.

-- 

Stephen J. Walick, Asst Sysop of the  < XBBS >  program  at  NCoast.ORG
{uunet|backnone}!nshore!steve                         steve@nshore.uucp