[news.software.b] Cnews expire problems

nash@ucselx.sdsu.edu (Ron Nash) (01/19/90)

I recently switched from running Bnews 2.11 to Cnews with patches thru
Nov 1989.  I think I am missing something as my news partition is 
filling up, even with expire set to 8 days.  Under Bnews, I was expiring
articles after 12 days and had about 30MBytes free on average.  The
news spool partition is 200Mbytes.  Here is the expire -v output:

	Thu Jan 18 01:00:03 PST 1990
	24420 kept, 1174 expired
	9660 residual lines
	0 links archived, 1310 junked, 8 missing

What are the "residual lines"?  This number grows each day.  Here is a copy
of explist:

	# hold onto history lines 20 days, nobody gets >90 days
	/expired/			x	20	-
	/bounds/			x	0-1-90	-

	# hold moderated groups longer
	sci,rec,talk,soc		m	14	-

	# real noise gets thrown away fast
	junk,control			x	2	-

	# sources and binaries
	comp.sources,comp.binaries	m	20	-
	alt.sources			x	20	-

	# default:  10 days and no archive
	all				x	8	-

Any ideals or suggestions?  The system is running BSD4.3.  
Thanks in advance!

-- 
Ron Nash
San Diego State University
Internet:  nash@ucselx.sdsu.edu
UUCP:      ucsd!sdsu!ucselx!nash

henry@utzoo.uucp (Henry Spencer) (01/19/90)

In article <1990Jan18.182952.26048@ucselx.sdsu.edu> nash@ucselx.sdsu.edu (Ron Nash) writes:
>I recently switched from running Bnews 2.11 to Cnews with patches thru
>Nov 1989.  I think I am missing something as my news partition is 
>filling up, even with expire set to 8 days...

Bear in mind that traffic has been very heavy during the last couple of
months, except for the holidays.  We don't know of anything that would
make expire fail in such a subtle manner without leaving a trace.  My
guess is that this expansion is "real".  We have 40-50MB of news online
here despite rather shorter expiry times than yours; the size goes up
during the week and down on the weekend but there is no net increase,
so I don't think we've got a leak in expire.

You might try "find /usr/spool/news -mtime +8 -print" or something like
that to see just how much old stuff you've got.  That might shed some
light.

>What are the "residual lines"?  This number grows each day.  Here is a copy
>of explist:
>
>	# hold onto history lines 20 days, nobody gets >90 days
>	/expired/			x	20	-

Note that "/expired/" line -- you've told expire to hang onto history
lines for expired articles for 20 days.  That's what "residual" lines
are.  (Admittedly the message could be clearer; I'll see what I can do.)
Note that this does have a cost:  it makes the history and history.pag
files larger.  They, and the residual-lines count, will hit steady state
after about 20 days.
-- 
1972: Saturn V #15 flight-ready|     Henry Spencer at U of Toronto Zoology
1990: birds nesting in engines | uunet!attcan!utzoo!henry henry@zoo.toronto.edu

brian@cimage.com (Brian Kelley) (02/21/91)

I've been running Cnews for about 8 months now with no real problems.  
Recently, I've been looking a little more closely at news disk usage.  I
started looking at the dates on articles.

Taking a totally arbitrary group, rec.gardens, I find the following article:

-rw-rw-r--  1 news         1502 Jan  4 20:22 1190

looking at the header:

Path: dgsi!umich!samsung!usc!wuarchive!mit-eddie!apollo!betsyp
From: betsyp@apollo.HP.COM (Betsy Perry)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Re: Wayside Garden's English Roses
Message-ID: <4f015001.20b6d@apollo.HP.COM>
Date: 4 Jan 91 14:58:00 GMT
References: <138882@pyramid.pyramid.com>
Sender: root@apollo.HP.COM
Reply-To: betsyp@apollo.HP.COM (Betsy Perry)
Organization: Hewlett-Packard Company, Apollo Division; Chelmsford, MA
Lines: 23



I ask myself, why is this article still here?

doing an ls -l on the directory, I get the following:

-rw-rw-r--  1 news         1502 Jan  4 20:22 1190
-rw-rw-r--  1 news         1708 Jan 10 20:26 1220
-rw-rw-r--  1 news          590 Jan 10 20:27 1221
-rw-rw-r--  1 news          759 Jan 10 20:57 1222
-rw-rw-r--  1 news         1380 Jan 10 21:10 1223
-rw-rw-r--  1 news         3340 Jan 11 03:24 1224
-rw-rw-r--  1 news         1108 Jan 11 08:17 1225
-rw-rw-r--  1 news         1156 Jan 11 08:18 1226
-rw-rw-r--  1 news          915 Jan 11 20:32 1227
-rw-rw-r--  1 news          804 Jan 11 20:33 1228
-rw-rw-r--  1 news         3363 Jan 11 20:39 1229
-rw-rw-r--  1 news         2677 Jan 11 20:40 1230
-rw-rw-r--  1 news         1611 Jan 11 20:47 1231
-rw-rw-r--  1 news         2294 Jan 11 20:48 1232
-rw-rw-r--  1 news         1484 Jan 11 20:55 1233
-rw-rw-r--  1 news          492 Jan 12 00:15 1234
-rw-rw-r--  1 news         1456 Jan 12 20:19 1235
-rw-rw-r--  1 news         1351 Jan 12 20:21 1236
-rw-rw-r--  1 news         2203 Jan 12 20:21 1237
-rw-rw-r--  1 news         3742 Jan 12 20:27 1238
-rw-rw-r--  1 news         1610 Jan 12 23:16 1239
-rw-rw-r--  1 news         1491 Jan 13 00:17 1240
-rw-rw-r--  1 news         2049 Jan 13 23:15 1241
-rw-rw-r--  1 news         2023 Jan 14 20:19 1242
-rw-rw-r--  1 news         1769 Jan 14 20:19 1243
-rw-rw-r--  1 news          757 Jan 14 20:25 1244
-rw-rw-r--  1 news         1062 Jan 14 20:30 1245
-rw-rw-r--  1 news          968 Jan 14 20:37 1246
-rw-rw-r--  1 news          795 Jan 15 02:32 1247
-rw-rw-r--  1 news         1631 Jan 15 20:18 1248
-rw-rw-r--  1 news         3600 Jan 15 20:21 1249
-rw-rw-r--  1 news         1713 Jan 15 20:30 1250
-rw-rw-r--  1 news         2757 Jan 15 20:30 1251
-rw-rw-r--  1 news         5047 Jan 15 20:32 1252
-rw-rw-r--  1 news          883 Jan 16 00:18 1253
-rw-rw-r--  1 news          968 Jan 16 00:18 1254
-rw-rw-r--  1 news          508 Jan 16 04:15 1255
-rw-rw-r--  1 news          967 Jan 16 04:15 1256
-rw-rw-r--  1 news         1374 Jan 16 04:18 1257
-rw-rw-r--  1 news         1567 Jan 16 05:15 1258
-rw-rw-r--  1 news          613 Jan 16 20:18 1259
-rw-rw-r--  1 news          695 Jan 16 20:18 1260
-rw-rw-r--  1 news         2116 Jan 16 20:24 1261
-rw-rw-r--  1 news         1359 Jan 16 20:25 1262
-rw-rw-r--  1 news         1037 Jan 16 20:29 1263
-rw-rw-r--  1 news         1149 Jan 16 20:36 1264
-rw-rw-r--  1 news         1875 Jan 16 20:36 1265
-rw-rw-r--  1 news         1193 Jan 16 20:45 1266
-rw-rw-r--  1 news          985 Jan 16 20:45 1267
-rw-rw-r--  1 news         3759 Jan 17 02:16 1268
-rw-rw-r--  1 news         1844 Jan 17 04:18 1269
-rw-rw-r--  1 news         1884 Feb  9 03:16 1425
-rw-rw-r--  1 news         1090 Feb  9 06:17 1426
-rw-rw-r--  1 news         1824 Feb 10 20:18 1427

[the articles continue but are irrelevant]

My explist file is:

# expire fields: field1-field2-field3
#
# retention period field1: days before articles are candidates for expiration
# dflt expiry date field2: default expiration date
# purge date       field3: unconditional expiration

# hold onto history lines 14 days, nobody gets >90 days
/expired/               x       7       -
#/bounds/               x       0-1-90  -

# local groups - keep forever

dsi,cimage,ctps         x       9000-9000-9000  -


comp                  x 5-7-10  -

# big non-tech groups held long enough for a long weekend
#sci,rec,talk,soc,misc,alt      x       3-4-5   -

# real noise gets thrown away fast
junk,tor.news.stats,biz         x       2-2-2   -

# throw away some technical stuff not worth archiving
comp.os.vms,comp.mail.maps      x       1-1-1   -

# default:  7 days and no archive
all                   x 7 -


---------------------

My question is, why are those old articles hanging around?  I did have some
problems (I believe back in Jan) running low on space.  doexpire couldn't
find space for it's work files.  I don't believe that expire failing back
then should effect last night's expire (which ran fine and should have 
removed those articles).   Any thoughts?


 Thanks for any help,

  Brian

---
brian@cimage.com

henry@zoo.toronto.edu (Henry Spencer) (02/21/91)

In article <1991Feb20.161636.9861@cimage.com> brian@cimage.com (Brian Kelley) writes:
>-rw-rw-r--  1 news         1502 Jan  4 20:22 1190
>...
>Message-ID: <4f015001.20b6d@apollo.HP.COM>

Have you tried "newshist 4f015001.20b6d@apollo.HP.COM"?  If the article
is not in your history file -- normally this is the result of something
traumatic like a crash or a full filesystem -- then it *cannot* be expired.
Dealing with situations like this is the job of the "addmissing" command
that was recently added to C News.
-- 
"Read the OSI protocol specifications?  | Henry Spencer @ U of Toronto Zoology
I can't even *lift* them!"              |  henry@zoo.toronto.edu  utzoo!henry

brian@cimage.com (Brian Kelley) (02/21/91)

In article <1991Feb20.161636.9861@cimage.com> brian@cimage.com (Brian Kelley) writes:


>My question is, why are those old articles hanging around?  I did have some
>problems (I believe back in Jan) running low on space.  doexpire couldn't
>find space for it's work files.  I don't believe that expire failing back
>then should effect last night's expire (which ran fine and should have 
>removed those articles).   Any thoughts?


Ok, problem solved.  When the Cnews expire runs, looking for articles to 
kill, it looks at the entries in the history file.  It does not traverse
the file system.  Back in January, expire ran out of space a couple of times.
I believe the history file wasn't properly updated and therefore the articles
were never expired.  The solution was to run mkhistory to rebuild the history
file based on what is actually in the news spool directory.  Simple.

Though when I ran mkhistory, I got the following message:

mkhistory: <swill@trash> found in history.n -- aborting



Cute, eh?  I took the brute force approach and edited the history.n file,
deleting the offending swill line (and removing the two articles it had
a problem with by hand).  I am going to complete the remainder of the
mkhistory script by hand.  Hopefully tonight expire will do the right thing
and all will be well.

Thanks to the two very quick respondents who clued me in to the mkhistory
solution.


  Brian


---
brian@cimage.com

henry@zoo.toronto.edu (Henry Spencer) (02/21/91)

In article <1991Feb20.195229.10997@cimage.com> brian@dgsi.UUCP (Brian Kelley) writes:
>Though when I ran mkhistory, I got the following message:
>
>mkhistory: <swill@trash> found in history.n -- aborting

Sounds like you need a more modern C News. :-)  Mkhistory now just warns
you about this; it sets up legal history lines that call for immediate
expiry.  (The problem is article-like files that don't seem to be legal
articles.)

>Thanks to the two very quick respondents who clued me in to the mkhistory
>solution.

Addmissing is actually a cleaner solution, although by the sounds of it
your C News may be too old to have it.  Mkhistory does have the wart of
losing the history lines for expired articles.
-- 
"Read the OSI protocol specifications?  | Henry Spencer @ U of Toronto Zoology
I can't even *lift* them!"              |  henry@zoo.toronto.edu  utzoo!henry