mark@pcid.UUCP (mark hilliard) (08/25/88)
I have been using the Deskjet printer for several months now with Elan's Eroff package. It leaves a LOT to be desired. HP has advertised the Deskjet as a low cost alternative to a Laserjet printer, but this is misleading. The Deskjet will NOT do reverse line feeds past 1 or 2 lines, thus will NOT do ANY type of graphics other than a rasterized image from the top down. I am really upset with HP for putting out 1/2 of a printer (I'm told that HP did this to avoid impacting their Laserjet II sales). Elan provides version 2.2 of Eroff with Deskjet support, but the only things that you can do is standard text printing with font cart's or downloadable fonts (which you can only use 1/2 of because Elan didn't build Eroff to take advantage of all of the Deskjet's abilities for softfonts. If all you are going to do is use the Deskjet for GOOD quality text printing then Eroff and the Deskjet is for you, but if you want to use pic, grap, tbl, or ANY other troff pre-processor with the Deskjet and Eroff forget it. Come on guys (HP and Elan), sales could really be booming if you could put together a TOTAL package for the thousands of people who want troff and can't afford the Laserjet printer. ************************************************************************** Mark Hilliard (u1100a,ethos,lazlo)!gizzmo-\ Eastman Kodak rutgers!rochester!kodak!pcid!mark
rick@pcrat.UUCP (Rick Richardson) (08/25/88)
In article <114@pcid.UUCP> mark@pcid.UUCP (mark hilliard) writes: >Deskjet for GOOD quality text printing then Eroff and the Deskjet is for >you, but if you want to use pic, grap, tbl, or ANY other troff >pre-processor with the Deskjet and Eroff forget it. > > >Come on guys (HP and Elan), sales could really be booming if you could >put together a TOTAL package for the thousands of people who want >troff and can't afford the Laserjet printer. > Hmm! I find it strange that you could afford Elan's software but not the Laserjet. At any rate, lots of people can't afford Elan's software or the Laserjet. I just ordered a Deskjet tech ref., so I'll be adjusting the JetRoff package to handle the Deskjet as well. JetRoff is on its way to the moderator of comp.sources.misc. -- Rick Richardson, PC Research, Inc. (201) 542-3734 (voice, nights) OR (201) 389-8963 (voice, days) uunet!pcrat!rick (UUCP) rick%pcrat.uucp@uunet.uu.net (INTERNET)
wunder@hp-sde.SDE.HP.COM (Walter Underwood) (08/27/88)
The Deskjet will NOT do reverse line feeds past 1 or 2 lines, thus will NOT do ANY type of graphics other than a rasterized image from the top down. I am really upset with HP for putting out 1/2 of a printer (I'm told that HP did this to avoid impacting their Laserjet II sales). Whoever told you that is wrong. The printer RAM is limited because RAM is expensive. The printer lists at $995, and street price is just over $700. If you work out the normal multiples, an additional $20 or $40 of RAM makes a significant difference. I seriously doubt that the DeskJet was handicapped to save LaserJet sales. In fact, if the DeskJet was much more expensive (more RAM) I expect that people would buy LaserJet clones instead of the DeskJet. After all, the LaserJet is faster, the printing is waterproof, tiny dots don't flow together, bigger paper tray, existing fonts, etc. Voila, no DeskJet sales. If you think of the DeskJet as a turbo daisywheel printer (like the original, non-downloadable LaserJet), you won't be disappointed. It is *not* a typesetter, and was not designed to be a typesetter. wunder
mark@gizzmo.UUCP (mark hilliard) (08/28/88)
In article <780001@hp-sde.SDE.HP.COM> wunder@hp-sde.SDE.HP.COM (Walter Underwood) writes: > > The Deskjet will NOT do reverse line feeds past 1 or 2 lines, thus > will NOT do ANY type of graphics other than a rasterized image from > the top down. I am really upset with HP for putting out 1/2 of a > printer (I'm told that HP did this to avoid impacting their Laserjet > II sales). > >Whoever told you that is wrong. The printer RAM is limited because >RAM is expensive. The printer lists at $995, and street price is just Yes, I am sure that you are right, but you took me out of context. What I said was that the Deskjet will not do graphics with Elan's Eroff system. By itself, the deskjet does just fine on graphics. I use it with LOTS of graphic programs with no problems, but I WANT to use it with grap and pic (Eroff)! Elan says that it will not work because of the inability of the Deskjet to do REVERSE LINE FEEDS larger than a line or 2! I have been told that HP has a new Prom for the Deskjet that fixes this but will not release it to the public. HELP!!!
wunder@hp-sde.SDE.HP.COM (Walter Underwood) (08/29/88)
Elan says that it will not work because of the inability of the Deskjet to do REVERSE LINE FEEDS larger than a line or 2! The reason that the DeskJet can't back up in graphics is lack of RAM, as I understand it. Sorry that I didn't make that clear. So, keeping the price down means limiting RAM, and limiting RAM means that the printer can only back up inside a narrow band (the previous line or two). I have been told that HP has a new Prom for the Deskjet that fixes this but will not release it to the public. It might be possible to fix it with a cartridge. There are already RAM cartridges for soft fonts, and and Epson emulation cartridge. Though I work at HP, I have no idea what the printer people are up to, so I can't speculate on what they may or may not be working on. But, if they are not releasing something, it is probably because it isn't finished. wunder
jvte@euraiv1.UUCP (Jan van 't Ent) (08/31/88)
> ... but will not release it to the public.
As a matter of fact, HP will not release technical info on the 'low
profile' DeskJet. If you need to create your own symbols, and want
to use softfonts to do that, you're out of luck. Only developers
with specific contracts can get the information needed. Some text-
processors for scientific purposes (such as low cost ChiWriter) with
a LaserJet driver work only so long as you don't want anything extra
out of your DeskJet. Apparantly HP figures anybody who wants more
ought to buy a real printer.
- Jan van 't Entkg@elan.UUCP (Ken Greer) (09/01/88)
From article <780002@hp-sde.SDE.HP.COM>, by wunder@hp-sde.SDE.HP.COM > > The reason that the DeskJet can't back up in graphics is lack of RAM, > as I understand it. No, it simply will not move the paper in the reverse direction. It has nothing to do with the RAM available. > printer can only back up inside a narrow band (the previous line or > two). It can "back up" the height of the print head. That is, one can print anywhere within the scope of the print head, which is about 1/4 inch. > I have been told that HP has a new Prom for the Deskjet that fixes this > but will not release it to the public. Teasers, they are! But seriously, my educated guess is that moving the paper backwards might simply smear the ink. So, it is, in effect, not a solution. The DeskJet is a marvelous Daisy-Wheel replacement, but not anywhere close to being a laser printer replacement. -- Ken Greer Elan Computer Group, Inc. {ames,hplabs}!elan!kg 415-322-2450
david@sun.uucp (David DiGiacomo) (09/02/88)
In article <339@elan.UUCP> kg@elan.UUCP (Ken Greer) writes: >From article <780002@hp-sde.SDE.HP.COM>, by wunder@hp-sde.SDE.HP.COM >> >> The reason that the DeskJet can't back up in graphics is lack of RAM, >> as I understand it. > >No, it simply will not move the paper in the reverse direction. >It has nothing to do with the RAM available. Laser printers cannot move the paper in the reverse direction, or stop the paper once it is moving. They "back up" by buffering some or all of the page in RAM. The DeskJet could use the same approach. -- David DiGiacomo, Sun Microsystems, Mt. View, CA sun!david david@sun.com
les@chinet.UUCP (Leslie Mikesell) (09/02/88)
In article <66638@sun.uucp> david@sun.uucp (David DiGiacomo) writes: >Laser printers cannot move the paper in the reverse direction, or stop the >paper once it is moving. They "back up" by buffering some or all of the >page in RAM. The DeskJet could use the same approach. Ummm, they left something out of the DeskJet to keep the price low (otherwise you might as well but a laser). Guess what it was.... Les Mikesell
jaap+@andrew.cmu.edu (Jaap Akkerhuis) (09/07/88)
> The Deskjet will NOT do reverse line feeds past 1 or > 2 lines, thus will NOT do etc. If I'm not mistaken I seem to remember that the original ditroff distribution contained the source of a program called dsort, which sorted the output of troff, so it was garanteed to go in one direction. Another program doing more or less the same can be found on the berkeley distribution under the name vsort, since the versatec has no reverse line feeds at all. The standard vsort sorts old troff output (actually C/A/T-code). But it can probably adapted to the new troff output format without too much problems. Sorting the troff output will solve the problems with reverse feeding as apparently the deskjet has. jaap