rick@pcrat.UUCP (Rick Richardson) (09/10/88)
(Cross posting because separate, but similar, inquiries have appeared in all three groups the past several days. Followups, if any, have been directed to comp.text) In article <198@dcs.UUCP> wnp@dcs.UUCP (Wolf N. Paul) writes: >In article <230@ssbn.WLK.COM> bill@ssbn.WLK.COM (Bill Kennedy) writes: > >Has anyone gotten Microport DWB 2.0 to work with an HP Laser Jet Series II > >printer and font cartridges? I know that they say there are optional > >We are using TPLUS, from Textware in Cambridge, Mass. (textware!brent), >Elan is a similar product. Both of them actually are POSTPROCESSORS for >ditroff; as far as I know, both of them will support both cartridge and >downloaded fonts. > >If you need something non-commercial (i.e. inexpensive), Rick Richardson >has sent his JetRoff to Brandon, and it should appear in comp.sources.misc >starting around Sept. 6. While we are waiting for the sources to appear from Brandon, let me fill you in a little more about JetRoff. I'd had some experience with the TPLUS product (as implemented on a VAX 8700), and was terribly disappointed with the amount of output, the font selection that was provided, and its handling of pic and grap output (a lot of my stuff wouldn't print). Then, I got my hands on a 386, and called around to pick up the ditroff postprocessor to drive the HP LJ II. Neither Elan, nor Textware would sell the postprocessor. It was the whole package or nothing at all. Well, I already had paid for DWB (actually, twice). I sure wasn't about to pay for it a third time. Even worse, those packages cost more than the whole UNIX did, and more than half of what the printer did! At this point, about mid April, you have one very ticked off experienced C programmer (me). I did what comes naturally -- I started coding. Then I needed fonts, because I wasn't about to pay $200 to HP for a cartridge that doesn't even properly support troff. So I spent some time wandering around in Metafont land (lots of fun!) making a set of troff special characters. I decided early on that I was never going to support cartridges -- they are too expensive and don't have the range of sizes that I'd like to see. Downloading the glyphs as needed works very well, and makes each printout self contained. I spent some time in bitmap land, because I needed to integrate my logo and my signature into troff (Yep, my letters and checks come out of the printer already signed). Bitmaps are tricky to do without direct support from troff. But they can be implemented, and the gory details are buried in a macro. By now, JetRoff is a full fledged postprocessor for DWB. I have a few more features on the TODO list, which I won't mention yet because you never know who might be listening. There are even a few more bonus features I've added since I sent the copy to Brandon to post to Usenet in comp.sources.misc. Even at minimum wage, I've spent more money (in my time) on JetRoff than I would if I'd just paid for a copy of Eroff or TPLUS. But now everybody can get a ditroff-->LJ II postprocessor for a fair price, determined by their own needs, and with the source code included. That's all I ever wanted, and I hope that's what a lot of netters want to. There are quite a few reams of paper left in troff, and JetRoff will make sure that all those reams get used. -- Rick Richardson, PC Research, Inc. rick%pcrat.uucp@uunet.uu.net (INTERNET) uunet!pcrat!rick (UUCP, Personal Mail) ..!pcrat!jetroff (JetRoff Info) ..!pcrat!dry2 (Dhrystone Submissions)
kg@elan.UUCP (Ken Greer) (09/11/88)
From article <570@pcrat.UUCP>, by rick@pcrat.UUCP (Rick Richardson): > > Neither Elan, nor *** would sell the postprocessor. > It was the whole package or nothing at all. Elan has always sold a postprocessor alone, for those that wish it only, for 2/3 the package price. Caveat, however - Straight DWB 2.0 is so blasted buggy, you will waste more time in aggravation than the cost of it. However, knowing people may be short on bucks, and willing to put up with stock DWB, we do indeed sell the post processor alone. -- Ken Greer Elan Computer Group, Inc. {ames,hplabs}!elan!kg 415-322-2450
rick@pcrat.UUCP (Rick Richardson) (09/11/88)
In article <344@elan.UUCP> kg@elan.UUCP (Ken Greer) writes: >Elan has always sold a postprocessor alone, for those that >wish it only, for 2/3 the package price. Caveat, however - Straight I stand corrected. I think I must have made a mental note that 2/3*895 was still too high for the postprocessor alone. The order form doesn't mention this at all. >DWB 2.0 is so blasted buggy, you will waste more time in aggravation >than the cost of it. I'm certain there are bugs, however I haven't run into them. If there are bugs, then I would assume that they will get fixed eventually by AT&T. Not having run into any myself, perhaps AT&T is not aware of them, either? They've got to be reported to get fixed. -- Rick Richardson, PC Research, Inc. rick%pcrat.uucp@uunet.uu.net (INTERNET) uunet!pcrat!rick (UUCP, Personal Mail) ..!pcrat!jetroff (JetRoff Info) ..!pcrat!dry2 (Dhrystone Submissions)
kg@elan.UUCP (Ken Greer) (09/12/88)
From article <573@pcrat.UUCP>, by rick@pcrat.UUCP (Rick Richardson): > In article <344@elan.UUCP> kg@elan.UUCP (Ken Greer) writes: > >>DWB 2.0 is so blasted buggy, you will waste more time in aggravation >>than the cost of it. > > If there are bugs, then I would assume that they will get fixed eventually > by AT&T. Not having run into any myself, perhaps AT&T is not aware of > them, either? They've got to be reported to get fixed. When I worked at Amdahl, I was in charge of DWB. While there, I reported to AT&T about 50 to 75 bugs in DWB 1.0. And I reported them by the book just how they wanted them -- problem explanation, examples, *and* fixes. I also had frequent telephone conversations with the support people. 1.5 years later, when we got DWB 2.0 I was very anxious to see if all my fixes went into it. The result? Two bug fixes out of 50-75 were installed. And one of the two was installed by AT&T incorrectly. (The bug fix installed correctly was in NROFF. The incorrectly applied bug fix was installed into TBL.) So, you are welcome to draw your own conclusions. Furthermore... According to AT&T spokesman, the AT&T DWB product group has disbanded. This has been confirmed with my conversation with the DWB 2.0 product manager. There are no official plans to have another release of DWB after DWB 2.0, the current release. They are leaving it up to third parties to provide further support beyond what 2.0 offers. -- Ken Greer Elan Computer Group, Inc. {ames,hplabs}!elan!kg 415-322-2450
wnp@dcs.UUCP (Wolf N. Paul) (09/12/88)
In article <345@elan.UUCP> kg@elan.UUCP (Ken Greer) writes: >According to AT&T spokesman, the AT&T DWB product group has disbanded. >This has been confirmed with my conversation with the DWB 2.0 product >manager. There are no official plans to have another release of DWB >after DWB 2.0, the current release. They are leaving it up to >third parties to provide further support beyond what 2.0 offers. If I remember correctly, there was a recent announcement about AT&T having officially adopted SoftQuad's DWB 2.0 product, to the extent that they are distributing it (or planning to) via their AT&T Toolbox system. This seems to confirm the general thrust of Ken's statement. Speaking of "distributing": Rick Richardson, could JetRoff be posted to this group, or alt.sources, since there seems to be a problem with ncoast and comp.sources.misc? -- Wolf N. Paul * 3387 Sam Rayburn Run * Carrollton TX 75007 * (214) 306-9101 UUCP: killer!dcs!wnp ESL: 62832882 DOMAIN: dcs!wnp@killer.dallas.tx.us TLX: 910-380-0585 EES PLANO UD
kg@elan.UUCP (Ken Greer) (09/13/88)
From article <203@dcs.UUCP>, by wnp@dcs.UUCP (Wolf N. Paul): > In article <345@elan.UUCP> kg@elan.UUCP (Ken Greer) writes: > >>According to AT&T spokesman, the AT&T DWB product group has disbanded. >>This has been confirmed with my conversation with the DWB 2.0 product >>manager. There are no official plans to have another release of DWB >>after DWB 2.0, the current release. They are leaving it up to >>third parties to provide further support beyond what 2.0 offers. > > If I remember correctly, there was a recent announcement about AT&T having > officially adopted SoftQuad's DWB 2.0 product, to the extent that they > are distributing it (or planning to) via their AT&T Toolbox system. This > seems to confirm the general thrust of Ken's statement. AT&T is not distributing SoftQuad, or anyone elses enhanced Troff. From my talks with AT&T, they have no (current at least) intention to. SoftQuad has been saying a number of things like you mention above, but this is not the case. Here is a copy of a SoftQuad posting with corrections... ---------------- | SoftQuad Publishing Software is available in source and binary | form through AT&T and SoftQuad as an enhanced product derived | from AT&T's UNIX Documenter's Workbench, Release 2.0 Software. I spoke to AT&T. Yes, you can buy DWB 2.0 from AT&T as usual. But they don't sell SQ source or binary. You'll have to call them. So, the above is, I assume, meant to be intentionally ambiguous. So it can also read: Eroff is available in source and binary form through AT&T and Elan as an enhanced product derived from AT&T's UNIX Documenter's Workbench, Release 2.0 Software. | SoftQuad is providing ongoing support and development for the product. We're providing ongoing support and development too. | In its current release, it has also been incorporated by AT&T | into its "Standard Operating Environment" (SOE) for internal | use. Special arrangements have been made for the purchase of | SoftQuad Publishing Software by AT&T personnel. We have numerous divisions in AT&T who have standardized on Eroff also. Our sales figures indicate that AT&T has in no way adopted SQ as a standard. Yes, we have a special purchase arrangement with AT&T also. Is this deception? You be the judge. -- Ken Greer Elan Computer Group, Inc. {ames,hplabs}!elan!kg 415-322-2450
rick@pcrat.UUCP (Rick Richardson) (09/13/88)
In article <203@dcs.UUCP> wnp@dcs.UUCP (Wolf N. Paul) writes: > >Speaking of "distributing": > >Rick Richardson, could JetRoff be posted to this group, or alt.sources, since >there seems to be a problem with ncoast and comp.sources.misc? The only way I felt comfortable with distributing JetRoff was to post to a newsgroup with widespread archiving. Its just too big to be sending around on an on demand basis (I think what Brandon got was 1.7 MB, and that isn't even all the fonts!). I really wanted it to go to comp.sources.unix, but Rich doesn't cotton to Shareware. Good thing there's a two party system here on the USENET :-). So its comp.sources.misc or bust. I trust that Brandon will come back on line soon. ************ To the fellow at AT&T Bell Labs, Middletown, NJ who came over about a month ago and got a copy of JetRoff: I lost your name and number!!! I'd like to get in touch with you again! Please email or call at your convenience. There's a terrible bug that will cause all your output to be turned 45 degrees on Thursday. Gosh, thats only three days from now!!!! :-). ************ -- Rick Richardson, PC Research, Inc. rick%pcrat.uucp@uunet.uu.net (INTERNET) uunet!pcrat!rick (UUCP, Personal Mail) ..!pcrat!jetroff (JetRoff Info) ..!pcrat!dry2 (Dhrystone Submissions)
kworrell@urbsdc.Urbana.Gould.COM (09/14/88)
Is there anyplace (now) which has JetRoff available for anonymous FTP? ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Kurt J. Worrell USEnet1: ihnp4!uiucuxc!ccvaxa!kworrell Gould CSD-Urbana ARPAnet: kworrell@xenurus.gould.com **** Standard Disclaimer *** BELLnet: (217) 384-8500, x740