lee@anduk.co.uk (Liam R. Quin) (07/22/89)
Some notes on dashes, hyphens and eliipsis, and some references to works on typesetting, typography and English usage. jwright@atanasoff.cs.iastate.edu.UUCP (Jim Wright) said: >And how about a new can of worms? :-) Let's talk about ellipses. Is >there only one way to set them? Sorry to drag this out still further... I should have mentioned when I quoted Hart's that there is another major source for this sort of thing: the British Standards Institute. I'm looking at a (slightly out of date by now, I think) copy of BS 5261 : Guide to Copy preparation and proof correction : Part 1 : 1975 : Recommendations for preparation of typescript copy for printing which (despite the extraordinary titles these things use) is succinct and helpful. I'll quote from Appendix A: | Hyphens and dashes in typescript | | A.1 representation in typescript | (a) the hyphen: - | (b) the unspaced en rule: by a double hyphen | (c) the spaced en rule or the unspaced em rule: by a double hyphen | preceded and followed by a space | (d) the 2-em rule: by a treble hyphen, whether or not preceded by a space In other words, -- and---are considered equivalent at the copy stage. Of course, a given publisher or typesetter will choose one or the other! My own comments are in [square brackets] in the following extracts. | A.2 Hyphen. The hyphen is used to link words: | knee-deep | | A.3 En Rule. The unspaced en rule is used to denote a span or a | differentiation: | | The London--Brighton road [a road linking London and Brighton] | a score of 5--4 | Christian--Marxist dialogue | the 1914--18 war [but NOT `from 1914--18', see $10.2] | settler--native antagonism [i.e. between settlers and natives] | A.4 Dash. The spaced en rule _or_ the unspaced em rule is used: | (a) in pairs, enclosing parenthetical matter: | | A clear typescript style -- this is the aim | of BS 5261 -- is a great saving to author | and publisher. [well, no-one said thay have to be modest :-)] | | (b) singly, to mark a break before the end of a sentence: | Reading, social life, sport -- none | of this interested him in the least. | | A.5 Long dash. The 2-em rule is used to indicate an unfinished sentence | or the omissionof a word or part of a word: | He was shouting, `Help! Help! Can't | anyone ---', and the next minute | he had been washed away. | [in the typeset version accompanying this example, the dash is | about the same length as "he had", or a little shorter than | "anyone".] | | `What a d--- nice fellow!' | [an ellipsis for damned, although `dashed' might be more | appropriate! :-)] | | Note that the 2-em rule should be set close up to the last letter of an | incomplete word. Now for ellipsis. Jim Wright (jwright@atanasoff.cs.iastate.edu.UUCP) again: >It seems they have two uses: to >indicate an uncompleted thought or truncated quote, or to indicate the >absence of text. The following relates to typeset `output' as well as to copy preparation, and the examples are printed as if typeset. | $7.7 Eliipsis. For words omitted, three full points (spaced on either side) | shall be used, e.g. `Never ... was so much owed by so many to so few.' | They should be followed by a full point if they signify the omission of the | last part of a sentence, or preceded by a full point if they signify the | omission of words following a complete sentence. Also ($14.4), | A quoted word or phrase less than a grammatically complete sentence | should not be followed by any punctuation (except a question mark, | exclamation mark or ellipsis) before the closing quotation mark, but the | punctuation of the main sentence, if any, should be placed outside the | quotation marks: | These writers are sometimes known as `the Romantics'. > In the first case, I leave no space between the ellipse >and the text. I don't use the second case often, but apparently the >ellipse ought to have space on both sides. Correct? Am I leaving >something out? Sounds like you're fine to me. Hart's goes even further and recommends the use of a full word space, like this . . ., although punctuation is set close up. Hart's is a little more fussy then the British Standards Institute about whether punctuation should be placed within or without surrounding quotation marks in such cases, although they do seem to agree in most cases. >Does anyone have suggestions on a reference as to how to use and >typeset the English language? It seems I could use one. :-) I use several, and mostly ignore them all [:-) :-) :-)], but then, I'm not a typesetter. If you can get hold of them in atanasoff.cs.iastate.edu.UUCP-land [I really don't believe that address, uucp truncates host names after seven or so characters round here! :-) :-)], you might try %T Hart's Rules for compositors and readers at the Oxford University Press %I Oxford University Press I have the 39th edition; there is probably a later one by now. You could also try %A H. W. Fowler %T A Dictionary of Modern English Usage %I Oxford University Press %T The Oxford Dictionary for Writers and Editors %I Oxford University Press The Shorter Oxford Dictionary is very good for English, as is Chambers; I am given to understand that Webster produces a similar dictionary for American English. The Oxford English Dictionary is huge and very expensive, but I have on occasion consulted it, for example to clarify the distinction between `program' and `programme'. British Standards Institute Publications BS 5261 -- in two parts. Part 2 is mainly concerned with mark-up for proof correction, but Part 1 is of more general interest. This seems to supercede BS 1219 : 1958 entirely. Some others you might be interested in are: BS 2961 : 1967 Typeface Nomenclature and Classification is a short document explaining such terms as `Humanist' and `x-height'. BS 3700 : 1976 Recommendations [for] The preparation of indexes to books, periodicals and other publications BS 5775: Part 11 : 1979 ISO 31/X1-1978 [sic] Specification for Quantities, units and symbols Part 11. Mathematical signs and symbols for use in the physical sciences and technology [obviously there are a lot of other standards in similar vein, but I don't off-hand know the titles of the other parts in this series! BS 4148 : 1985 ISO 4-1984 [...] Abbreviation of title words and titles of publications ISO title: Documentation -- Rules for the abbreviation of title words and titles of publications On general typography, an excellent introduction is %A McLean, R. %T Typography %I Thames and Hudson %C London %D 1980 %X a good introduction, with an annotated bibliography This is also very cheap (I paid about UK#5 for mine, and it doesn't seem to have risen in price very much in the intervening years). Can anyone add to the list? Lee -- {ai.toronto.edu, uunet!utzoo}!utai!anduk.uucp!lee (Liam R. Quin) Unixsys (UK) Ltd., +44 925 828181 `The following letter, which I have castrated in some places...' [Joseph Addison, 1672-1719, quoted in The Shorter Oxford Dictionary] -- Lee Russell Quin, Unixsys UK Ltd, The Genesis Centre, Birchwood, Warrington, ENGLAND, WA3 7BH; Tel. +44 925 828181, Fax +44 925 827834 lee%anduk.uucp@ai.toronto.edu; {utzoo,uunet}!utai!anduk!lee UK: uu.warwick.ac.uk!anduk.co.uk!lee
jcb@lfcs.ed.ac.uk (Julian Bradfield) (08/02/89)
In article <30@nx32s.anduk.co.uk> lee%anduk.UUCP@neat.ai.toronto.edu (Liam R. Quin) writes: >Some notes on dashes, hyphens and eliipsis, and some references to >works on typesetting, typography and English usage. ... >Can anyone add to the list? A book I have found very useful is Butcher, Judith Copy-editing -- The Cambridge Handbook, 2nd edn Cambridge, CUP, 1981 ISBN 0 521 25638 0
ath@helios.prosys.se (Anders Thulin) (08/03/89)
In article <30@nx32s.anduk.co.uk> lee%anduk.UUCP@neat.ai.toronto.edu (Liam R. Quin) writes: >>Does anyone have suggestions on a reference as to how to use and >>typeset the English language? It seems I could use one. :-) > > [ ... several suggestions omitted ... ] A few more: English usage: * Eric Partridge: You have a point there [ I'm not absolutely certain about the title ] Give a rather good description of when to use various types of interpunctuation and why. Also gives several examples incompetent, bad, acceptable and perfect usage. * Eric Partridge: Usage and Abusage Published by Penguin, among others Next to Fowler in my bookshelf. Typography: * Oliver Simon: Introduction to Typography Faber & Faber A rather old book, but still quite useful. * The Chicago Manual of Style Might be considered to describe US practice, though. -- Anders Thulin, Programsystem AB, Teknikringen 2A, S-583 30 Linkoping, Sweden ath@prosys.se {uunet,mcvax}!sunic!prosys!ath
bts@sas.UUCP (Brian T. Schellenberger) (08/06/89)
In article <30@nx32s.anduk.co.uk> lee%anduk.UUCP@neat.ai.toronto.edu (Liam R. Quin) writes: || A quoted word or phrase less than a grammatically complete sentence || should not be followed by any punctuation (except a question mark, || exclamation mark or ellipsis) before the closing quotation mark, but the || punctuation of the main sentence, if any, should be placed outside the || quotation marks: || These writers are sometimes known as `the Romantics'. It should be noted, however, that American usage is to place periods inside the quotes even if they represent the outside sentence. This is illogical but, in my opinion, more pleasing to the eye. (With most fonts--it looks horrid, actually, with vertical quote marks.) Of course, my eye was raised mostly reading American typesetting . . . -- -- Brian, the Man from Babble-on. ...!mcnc!rti!sas!bts -- "Every jumbled pile of person has a thinking part that wonders what the part that isn't thinking isn't thinking of" -- THEY MIGHT BE GIANTS
lwh@harpsichord.cis.ohio-state.edu (Loyde W Hales) (08/07/89)
In article <1128@sas.UUCP> bts@sas.UUCP (Brian T. Schellenberger) writes: >In article <30@nx32s.anduk.co.uk> lee%anduk.UUCP@neat.ai.toronto.edu (Liam R. Quin) writes: >|| A quoted word or phrase less than a grammatically complete sentence >|| should not be followed by any punctuation (except a question mark, >|| exclamation mark or ellipsis) before the closing quotation mark, but the >|| punctuation of the main sentence, if any, should be placed outside the >|| quotation marks: >|| These writers are sometimes known as `the Romantics'. > >It should be noted, however, that American usage is to place periods inside >the quotes even if they represent the outside sentence. This is illogical >but, in my opinion, more pleasing to the eye. (With most fonts--it looks >horrid, actually, with vertical quote marks.) Of course, my eye was raised >mostly reading American typesetting . . . Actually, it isn't an ``Americanism'' at all. According to three different sources I checked, punctuation belongs INSIDE the quotation marks under most conditions. Well, actually that isn't quite true. One of the sources [_Write Stuff_ by Jan Venolia] said that ellipsis, periods, and commas are always to be placed inside, but EXCLAMATION MARKS and QUESTION MARKS go OUTSIDE unless they are bound to the sentence. (By ``bound'' I mean that the mark is part of the quotation or would substantially hinder reading, as might happen with a quote in the middle of the sentence.) Hmmm...... LL -=- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- | I've tried to avoid all of this, but I can't. | She's out there, somewhere [my advisor], Loyde W. Hales | And I've got to go to work. [She expects research results!]
lee@anduk.co.uk (Liam R. Quin) (08/09/89)
In article <1128@sas.UUCP> bts@sas.UUCP (Brian T. Schellenberger) writes: >In article <30@nx32s.anduk.co.uk> I wrote: >|| These writers are sometimes known as `the Romantics'. >It should be noted, however, that American usage is to place periods inside >the quotes even if they represent the outside sentence. This is widespread. The cited example is particularly pendantic, I think. This is a *typographical* convention, however, not a copy preparation one. If you submit a typed manuscript (`copy') to a publisher, you should either check with them, or use the more pedantic style. That way, if they want to set your book in the `British Standard' style, they will be able to do so. > This is [...] in my opinion, more pleasing to the eye. > (With most fonts--it looks horrid, actually, with vertical quote marks.) I would tend to agree. Another alternative I have sometimes seen is to set the . as if it had less width than usual. In troff/TeX/... terms, one might have a kern pair for . ' so that the two nearly overlap. Or, in troff, you could try this\z.' One of the books on my desk (John Sculley/Odyssey) uses the BSI method, though, putting the full point after the quote when the quoted text at the end of the sentence is not itself a complete sentence. It's really only an issue with marks like ?, ! and ), I think. Lee -- Lee Russell Quin, Unixsys UK Ltd, The Genesis Centre, Birchwood, Warrington, ENGLAND, WA3 7BH; Tel. +44 925 828181, Fax +44 925 827834 lee%anduk.uucp@ai.toronto.edu; {utzoo,uunet}!utai!anduk!lee UK: uu.warwick.ac.uk!anduk.co.uk!lee