tut@cairo.Eng.Sun.COM (Bill "Bill" Tuthill) (11/09/90)
Does anybody have an editor script to convert American spelling (localize, color) to English spelling (localise, colour)? I'd use the term British instead of English, except that English spelling is also the norm in Australia, New Zealand, and Canada. Thanks in advance.
horne-scott@cs.yale.edu (Scott Horne) (11/09/90)
In article <2402@exodus.Eng.Sun.COM> tut@cairo.Eng.Sun.COM (Bill "Bill" Tuthill) writes: >Does anybody have an editor script to convert American spelling >(localize, color) to English spelling (localise, colour)? I'd use >the term British instead of English, except that English spelling >is also the norm in Australia, New Zealand, and Canada. And the rest of the literate world. It would be difficult to do this entirely in software. How to handle `tyre'/`tire'? `Tire' is a perfectly good verb, but most Americans (mis)spell `tyre' as `tire'. Flames to `alt.flame.spelling'. --Scott -- Scott Horne ...!{harvard,cmcl2,decvax}!yale!horne horne@cs.Yale.edu SnailMail: Box 7196 Yale Station, New Haven, CT 06520 203 436-1817 Residence: Rm 1817 Silliman College, Yale Univ Uneasy lies the head that wears the _gao1 mao4zi_.
koontz@cam.nist.gov (John E. Koontz X5180) (11/10/90)
In article <2402@exodus.Eng.Sun.COM> tut@cairo.Eng.Sun.COM (Bill "Bill" Tuthill) writes: >Does anybody have an editor script to convert American spelling >(localize, color) to English spelling (localise, colour)? I'd use >the term British instead of English, except that English spelling >is also the norm in Australia, New Zealand, and Canada. Actually, I've been given to understand that Canadian spelling has some American elements. Apart from the problem that Scott notes, I'd suggest using a correcting spell checker. To take the homograph problem into account, run it in supervised mode. If you can find a British spelling checker, you won't have much problem getting started, apart from needing to prime it with the homographs in your personal list.
lark@tivoli.UUCP (Lar Kaufman) (11/10/90)
In article <2402@exodus.Eng.Sun.COM> tut@cairo.Eng.Sun.COM (Bill "Bill" Tuthill) writes: >Does anybody have an editor script to convert American spelling >(localize, color) to English spelling (localise, colour)? I'd use This is a non-trivial task, eh? I don't have a good answer, but I understand that FrameMaker International edition can set spelling to either US or UK, and then you could run the spellchecker, telling it to globally replace. You would have to make a complete pass, I think, telling it once to go ahead for each word that needs to be changed... I haven't seen the International edition, only heard it described. a 1.5 Million word dictionary in beaucoup languages (with a UK/US switch)! -lk -- --------- TIVOLI Systems, Inc. Lar Kaufman 512-454-3301 (voice) 512-329-2455 4503 Sinclair Avenue (fax) 512-329-2755 Austin, Texas 78756 USA (e) lark@tivoli.com
horne-scott@cs.yale.edu (Scott Horne) (11/10/90)
In article <5727@alpha.cam.nist.gov> koontz@cam.nist.gov (John E. Koontz X5180) writes: >In article <2402@exodus.Eng.Sun.COM> tut@cairo.Eng.Sun.COM (Bill "Bill" Tuthill) writes: >>Does anybody have an editor script to convert American spelling >>(localize, color) to English spelling (localise, colour)? I'd use >>the term British instead of English, except that English spelling >>is also the norm in Australia, New Zealand, and Canada. > >Actually, I've been given to understand that Canadian spelling has some >American elements. Yes, it does. See, among other books, _The Story of English_ (and accompanying BBC television series). However, I just saw `programme' in reference to a computer program in a USENET article which came from Canada. What could this be, other than a misspelling? `Program' meaning `computer program' is the standard spelling everywhere; `programme' is the English/non-American spelling for the word in all its other uses. By the way, I'd like to apologise for the article I posted yesterday. The remark about "the rest of the literate world" or whatever was both unnecessary and inaccurate. Guess I'm overzealous with my pro-"correct"-spelling propaganda.... --Scott -- Scott Horne ...!{harvard,cmcl2,decvax}!yale!horne horne@cs.Yale.edu SnailMail: Box 7196 Yale Station, New Haven, CT 06520 203 436-1817 Residence: Rm 1817 Silliman College, Yale Univ Uneasy lies the head that wears the _gao1 mao4zi_.
horne-scott@cs.yale.edu (Scott Horne) (11/10/90)
In article <179@tivoli.UUCP> lark@tivoli.UUCP (Lar Kaufman) writes: >In article <2402@exodus.Eng.Sun.COM> tut@cairo.Eng.Sun.COM (Bill "Bill" Tuthill) writes: <<Does anybody have an editor script to convert American spelling <<(localize, color) to English spelling (localise, colour)? I'd use < <This is a non-trivial task, eh? Yes, for the reasons mentioned in my previous two articles. >I don't have a good answer, but I understand that <FrameMaker International edition can set spelling to either US or UK, and then you <could run the spellchecker, telling it to globally replace. You would have to make <a complete pass, I think, telling it once to go ahead for each word that needs to <be changed... I haven't seen the International edition, only heard it described. <a 1.5 Million word dictionary in beaucoup languages (with a UK/US switch)! Yes, but will it be able to figure out that `jail' is supposed to be `gaol'? --Scott -- Scott Horne ...!{harvard,cmcl2,decvax}!yale!horne horne@cs.Yale.edu SnailMail: Box 7196 Yale Station, New Haven, CT 06520 203 436-1817 Residence: Rm 1817 Silliman College, Yale Univ Uneasy lies the head that wears the _gao1 mao4zi_.
lark@tivoli.UUCP (Lar Kaufman) (11/11/90)
I tried checking "gaol" with FrameMaker 2.1's spelling checker, and it accepted it. Since I don't have the international edition, I cannot say whether if I could have selected US spelling and have it reject "gaol". That's the tricky thing about English - so many things are permitted... I also fed the spelling checker "gaal" and it offered "gaol" as one of the suggested substitutes... -lar -- --------- TIVOLI Systems, Inc. Lar Kaufman 512-454-3301 (voice) 512-329-2455 4503 Sinclair Avenue (fax) 512-329-2755 Austin, Texas 78756 USA (e) lark@tivoli.com
horne-scott@cs.yale.edu (Scott Horne) (11/11/90)
In article <183@tivoli.UUCP> lark@tivoli.UUCP (Lar Kaufman) writes:
<
<I tried checking "gaol" with FrameMaker 2.1's spelling checker, and it
<accepted it. Since I don't have the international edition, I cannot
<say whether if I could have selected US spelling and have it reject "gaol".
<That's the tricky thing about English - so many things are permitted...
My question was whether the English/international/British spelling checker
would've spotted `jail' and suggested `gaol' as the correct spelling.
--Scott
--
Scott Horne ...!{harvard,cmcl2,decvax}!yale!horne
horne@cs.Yale.edu SnailMail: Box 7196 Yale Station, New Haven, CT 06520
203 436-1817 Residence: Rm 1817 Silliman College, Yale Univ
Uneasy lies the head that wears the _gao1 mao4zi_.ath@prosys.se (Anders Thulin) (11/11/90)
In article <27216@cs.yale.edu> horne-scott@cs.yale.edu (Scott Horne) writes: >My question was whether the English/international/British spelling checker >would've spotted `jail' and suggested `gaol' as the correct spelling. FrameMaker 2.1 International says: jail in UK mode - OK in US mode - OK gaol in UK mode - OK in US mode - OK In fact, ``In British official use the forms with G [gaol, gaoler] are still current; in literary and journalistic use both the G forms and the J forms [jail, jailer] are now admitted as correct, but all recent dictionaries give the preference to the latter''. That's the OED speaking. I doubt if it means anything, since the OED also says that the '-ize' form of verbs is to be preferred to '-ise' (when the root is of Greek origin). And nobody seems to bother about that. -- Anders Thulin ath@prosys.se {uunet,mcsun}!sunic!prosys!ath Telesoft Europe AB, Teknikringen 2B, S-583 30 Linkoping, Sweden
russell@ccu1.aukuni.ac.nz (Russell J Fulton;ccc032u) (11/12/90)
horne-scott@cs.yale.edu (Scott Horne) writes: >However, I just saw `programme' in reference to a computer program in a USENET >article which came from Canada. What could this be, other than a misspelling? >`Program' meaning `computer program' is the standard spelling everywhere; >`programme' is the English/non-American spelling for the word in all its other >uses. Oxford English Dictionary now lists program as an acceptable alternative to programme "especially computer ~". I think 'archaic usage' is probably more correct description than simply incorrect. There are still quite a few people in the faculty here (New Zealand) who insist on using "programme". Russell. -- Russell Fulton, Computer Center, University of Auckland, New Zealand. <rj_fulton@aukuni.ac.nz>
wnp@iiasa.AT (wolf paul) (11/12/90)
In article <27203@cs.yale.edu> horne-scott@cs.yale.edu (Scott Horne) writes:
)However, I just saw `programme' in reference to a computer program in a USENET
)article which came from Canada. What could this be, other than a misspelling?
)`Program' meaning `computer program' is the standard spelling everywhere;
)`programme' is the English/non-American spelling for the word in all its other
)uses.
I am not sure this is generally accepted. I constantly see
"programme" referring to computer programs in British computer
magazines. Are they all misspelling the word?
But the above statement also points out one of the difficulties in
writing a spelling conversion utility: if there are indeed words which
are spelled differently depending on the context (as you claim for
"programme" in British English), how would the utilitiy make that
distinction and provide the proper spelling?
--
Wolf N. Paul, UNIX SysAdmin, IIASA, A - 2361 Laxenburg, Austria, Europe
PHONE: +43-2236-71521-465 FAX: +43-2236-71313 UUCP: uunet!iiasa!wnp
INTERNET: wnp%iiasa@relay.eu.net BITNET: tuvie!iiasa!wnp@awiuni01.BITNETem@dce.ie (Eamonn McManus) (11/12/90)
In article <27204@cs.yale.edu> horne-scott@cs.yale.edu (Scott Horne) writes: >Yes, but will it be able to figure out that `jail' is supposed to be `gaol'? Why? -- Eamonn McManus <em@dce.ie> Are they the pearls of song Dropped by countless angel throng From paradise above? No.
ecsv24@castle.ed.ac.uk (J Bradfield) (11/12/90)
In <27216@cs.yale.edu> horne-scott@cs.yale.edu (Scott Horne) writes: >My question was whether the English/international/British spelling checker >would've spotted `jail' and suggested `gaol' as the correct spelling. One hopes not. A spelling checker has no business suggesting a somewhat archaic form as a replacement for the standard form.
woods@eci386.uucp (Greg A. Woods) (11/13/90)
In article <27203@cs.yale.edu> horne-scott@cs.yale.edu (Scott Horne) writes: > In article <5727@alpha.cam.nist.gov> koontz@cam.nist.gov (John E. Koontz X5180) writes: > >Actually, I've been given to understand that Canadian spelling has some > >American elements. > > Yes, it does. See, among other books, _The Story of English_ (and accompanying > BBC television series). > > However, I just saw `programme' in reference to a computer program in a USENET > article which came from Canada. What could this be, other than a misspelling? > `Program' meaning `computer program' is the standard spelling everywhere; > `programme' is the English/non-American spelling for the word in all its other > uses. It may have been a posting from me. I tend to use "programme" always, though I won't go to any great lengths to change it if it refers to software. On the other hand, I don't use "tyre", and I am very un-stable in my use of "..ise" or "..ize", eg. I use "organize" and "organisation". I guess my rule of thumb is "..is.." and "..ize", i.e. I use `zed' when it comes near the end of the word, and `ess' in the middle of a word. I write a fair bit of technical documentation and such, and I edit the UniForum Canada newsletter (README), keeping with the above practices. I use the British option of spell (-b) to help me out. (My favorite UNIX spellers are vspell and the built-in one in JOVE.) Certainly spell is not the best tool, but it is available almost everywhere. I just wish System V had look! -- Greg A. Woods woods@{eci386,gate,robohack,ontmoh,tmsoft}.UUCP ECI and UniForum Canada +1-416-443-1734 [h] +1-416-595-5425 [w] VE3TCP Toronto, Ontario CANADA
kim@Software.Mitel.com (Kim Letkeman) (11/14/90)
In article <661@riegel.prosys.se> ath@prosys.se (Anders Thulin) writes: | That's the OED speaking. I doubt if it means anything, since the OED | also says that the '-ize' form of verbs is to be preferred to '-ise' | (when the root is of Greek origin). And nobody seems to bother about | that. Well, almost everyone around here uses the -ize form. The net could use a "sweeping statement" indicator or perhaps a "grain of salt" insertion mechanism. -- Kim Letkeman kim@software.mitel.com uunet!mitel!spock!kim
kathy@rbdc (Kathy Vincent) (11/15/90)
tut@cairo.Eng.Sun.COM (Bill "Bill" Tuthill) writes: >Does anybody have an editor script to convert American spelling >(localize, color) to English spelling (localise, colour)? I'd use >the term British instead of English, except that English spelling >is also the norm in Australia, New Zealand, and Canada. I don't know about an editor script, but the UNIX "spell" utility has a -b option (that's "b" for British). If you're concerned with locating words that need to be changed, that should help. (I haven't tried the particular word, but I imagine it would tell you to switch "jail" to "gaol," too, as someone was wondering about. :-) ) You could then use those words to make a "vi" shell script that globally searches and replaces -- but allows you to yea or nay each occurrance (the "c" option at the end of the "s"ubstitute command). Making blanket global changes might be a bit risky ... Kathy Vincent
horne-scott@cs.yale.edu (Scott Horne) (11/17/90)
In article <1990Nov14.223747.3410@rbdc> kathy@rbdc (Kathy Vincent) writes: >tut@cairo.Eng.Sun.COM (Bill "Bill" Tuthill) writes: < <<Does anybody have an editor script to convert American spelling <<(localize, color) to English spelling (localise, colour)? I'd use <<the term British instead of English, except that English spelling <<is also the norm in Australia, New Zealand, and Canada. < <I don't know about an editor script, but the UNIX "spell" utility <has a -b option (that's "b" for British). If you're concerned with <locating words that need to be changed, that should help. (I haven't <tried the particular word, but I imagine it would tell you to switch <"jail" to "gaol," too, as someone was wondering about. :-) ) No, it doesn't: -----------------------cut here-------------------- jaguar> spell -b gaol jail colour color localise localize ----At this point, I'm going to type a ^D; everything after this is the output of `spell---- color localize -----------------------cut here-------------------- The only misspellings it found are `color' and `localize'. <You could then use those words to make a "vi" shell script that <globally searches and replaces -- but allows you to yea or nay each <occurrance (the "c" option at the end of the "s"ubstitute command). ^^^^^^^^^^ That's `occurrence'. :-) (Follow-ups to `alt.flame.spelling'. :-) ) --Scott -- Scott Horne ...!{harvard,cmcl2,decvax}!yale!horne horne@cs.Yale.edu SnailMail: Box 7196 Yale Station, New Haven, CT 06520 203 436-1817 Residence: Rm 1817 Silliman College, Yale Univ Uneasy lies the head that wears the _gao1 mao4zi_.
kim@Software.Mitel.com (Kim Letkeman) (11/17/90)
In article <KIM.90Nov14065703@kim.Software.Mitel.com> kim@Software.Mitel.com (Kim Letkeman) writes: | <661@riegel.prosys.se> | Sender: kim@spock | Organization: Public Switching, MITEL Corporation, Kanata, Ontario, Canada | Lines: 13 | In-reply-to: ath@prosys.se's message of 11 Nov 90 07:31:30 GMT | | In article <661@riegel.prosys.se> ath@prosys.se (Anders Thulin) writes: | | That's the OED speaking. I doubt if it means anything, since the OED | | also says that the '-ize' form of verbs is to be preferred to '-ise' | | (when the root is of Greek origin). And nobody seems to bother about | | that. | | Well, almost everyone around here uses the -ize form. | | The net could use a "sweeping statement" indicator or perhaps a "grain | of salt" insertion mechanism. | -- | Kim Letkeman kim@software.mitel.com | uunet!mitel!spock!kim Oops. My brain dead indicator failed to go off before I posted that statement. Apologies. -- Kim Letkeman kim@software.mitel.com uunet!mitel!spock!kim
ath@prosys.se (Anders Thulin) (11/18/90)
In article <KIM.90Nov14065703@kim.Software.Mitel.com> kim@Software.Mitel.com (Kim Letkeman) writes: >In article <661@riegel.prosys.se> I (ath@prosys.se) wrote: >| That's the OED speaking. I doubt if it means anything, since the OED >| also says that the '-ize' form of verbs is to be preferred to '-ise' >| (when the root is of Greek origin). And nobody seems to bother about >| that. > >Well, almost everyone around here uses the -ize form. Sorry, that was unintentional sarcasm. I tried to point my remark the other way. There is a group of islands outside the coast of France, where, rumor has it, use of the '-ize' form is taken to be a particularly uncivilized and benighted mode of expression, ``Fowler and the OED to the contrary notwithstanding''. -- Anders Thulin ath@prosys.se {uunet,mcsun}!sunic!prosys!ath Telesoft Europe AB, Teknikringen 2B, S-583 30 Linkoping, Sweden
henry@zoo.toronto.edu (Henry Spencer) (11/20/90)
In article <662@riegel.prosys.se> ath@prosys.se (Anders Thulin) writes: >I tried to point my remark the other way. There is a group of islands >outside the coast of France, where, rumor has it, use of the '-ize' >form is taken to be a particularly uncivilized and benighted mode... Ah, but they're not islands any more, at least the main one isn't. There is now a dry-land connection to France. So the Academie Francaise will straighten them out. :-) :-) :-) -- "I don't *want* to be normal!" | Henry Spencer at U of Toronto Zoology "Not to worry." | henry@zoo.toronto.edu utzoo!henry
wnp@iiasa.ac.at (wolf paul) (11/21/90)
In article <1990Nov19.162432.10773@zoo.toronto.edu> henry@zoo.toronto.edu (Henry Spencer) writes: )In article <662@riegel.prosys.se> ath@prosys.se (Anders Thulin) writes: )>I tried to point my remark the other way. There is a group of islands )>outside the coast of France, where, rumor has it, use of the '-ize' )>form is taken to be a particularly uncivilized and benighted mode... ) )Ah, but they're not islands any more, at least the main one isn't. There )is now a dry-land connection to France. So the Academie Francaise will >straighten them out. :-) :-) :-) Ah, but the dry-land connection is only about 5 cm wide so far. So how much good is that going to do, pour le moment? -- W.N.Paul, Int. Institute f. Applied Systems Analysis, A-2361 Laxenburg--Austria PHONE: +43-2236-71521-465 INTERNET: wnp%iiasa@relay.eu.net FAX: +43-2236-71313 UUCP: uunet!iiasa!wnp HOME: +43-2236-618514 BITNET: tuvie!iiasa!wnp@awiuni01.BITNET
bts@unx.sas.com (Brian T. Schellenberger) (11/28/90)
In article <2402@exodus.Eng.Sun.COM> tut@cairo.Eng.Sun.COM (Bill "Bill" Tuthill) writes: |I'd use |the term British instead of English, except that English spelling |is also the norm in Australia, New Zealand, and Canada. Rather ironic to use the term "English" as the more inclusive one, since England is a portion of Great Britain rather than vice-versa. It is usual to refer to this as "British" spelling, as in the "the British Empire," which pretty accurately describes where this spelling prevails. -- -- Brian, the Man from Babble-on. bts@unx.sas.com -- (Brian Schellenberger) "And when the votes were cast, the winner was . . . Mister James K. Polk, Napolean of the stump." -- THEY MIGHT BE GIANTS.
bts@unx.sas.com (Brian T. Schellenberger) (11/29/90)
In article <27216@cs.yale.edu> horne-scott@cs.yale.edu (Scott Horne) writes: |My question was whether the English/international/British spelling checker |would've spotted `jail' and suggested `gaol' as the correct spelling. Obviously not. While "gaol" is *in*correct in American, "jail" is not incorrect in British. Goal is correct in British, but a speller checker that suggested changing every word for which some other word also existed would be pretty tedious to use. -- -- Brian, the Man from Babble-on. bts@unx.sas.com -- (Brian Schellenberger) "And when the votes were cast, the winner was . . . Mister James K. Polk, Napolean of the stump." -- THEY MIGHT BE GIANTS.
lark@tivoli.UUCP (Lar Kaufman) (12/01/90)
I do not consider "gaol" to be incorrect in American English - only rare
and archaic. American English is not a subset of British English (nor is
the reverse true).
Issues of vocabulary and slang are always going to be handled poorly (if at all)
by a spelling checker. On the other hand, spelling conventions (for example:
colorize/colourise - has colourise made it to England yet?) are easily
detected.
-lar
Does your American dictionary list "gaol"? Case closed...
--
--------- TIVOLI Systems, Inc.
Lar Kaufman (voice) 512-329-2455
(fax) 512-329-2755
Austin, Texas USA (e) lark@tivoli.comhorne-scott@cs.yale.edu (Scott Horne) (12/01/90)
In article <218@tivoli.UUCP> lark@tivoli.UUCP (Lar Kaufman) writes: < <Issues of vocabulary and slang are always going to be handled poorly (if at all) <by a spelling checker. Of course. This is the argument against those who would put every entry in the _OED_ into their spelling checkers: the spelling checkers would cease to be useful, as most typos and misspellings would be regarded as correct. Misspellings which happened to coincide with unwanted archaisms would pass through. And who minds if his spelling checker can't find `paradichlorobenzene'? You can check that by hand. Of course, I don't use a spelling checker at all, as I have perfect spelling. <*boast*> >On the other hand, spelling conventions (for example: <colorize/colourise - has colourise made it to England yet?) are easily <detected. < <Does your American dictionary list "gaol"? Case closed... _The American Heritage Dictionary_ (2d college edition) lists it as "Chiefly Brit.". Case reopened. --Scott -- Scott Horne ...!{harvard,cmcl2,decvax}!yale!horne horne@cs.Yale.edu SnailMail: Box 7196 Yale Station, New Haven, CT 06520 203 436-1817 Residence: Rm 1817 Silliman College, Yale Univ Uneasy lies the head that wears the _gao1 mao4zi_.