[comp.unix.wizards] Sun-3 communication with Xerox using Ethernet ?

mats@enea.UUCP (02/12/87)

I'm looking for a way to connect Sun-3 workstations with 
Xerox (Big Ben) workstations using Ethernet.  The main
requirement is to be able to transfer files, but the need
for more functionality will surely arise when people 
start using the systems.

My understanding is that there is compatibility at the
hardware level but they use different protocols (TCP/IP
vs. XNS).  There seems to be at least three solutions
to my problem.

1. Get XNS for the Sun systems.  I know there is (limited)
   XNS support in the BSD 4.3 distribution for the VAX.
   Does anyone know if Sun is going to support XNS in any
   future release of their os?  The Sun's that I have looked
   at are 4.2 based and I couldn't find any references to
   XNS in the documentation or elsewhere. We are BSD 4.3 
   source licensees,  but I can't afford to try a port myself.

2. Get TCP/IP for the Xerox machines. I have a (slightly 
   outdated) version of the "TCP/IP vendors and implementations
   guide" but there is no mention of any Xerox hardware or
   software in it.

3. Get some sort of gateway/bridge which will do the conversion
   between TCP/IP and XNS,  possibly using different LAN's.
   This seems to be a really ugly solution.

Has anyone done anything like this before?  Any help would
be appreciated.  I might add that we're perfectly willing to
pay a reasonable price for a useful product.
-- 
Mats Josefsson, ENEA DATA, Sweden

UUCP: {seismo,mcvax,munnari,cernvax,diku,inria,prlb2,penet,ukc,unido}!enea!mats
Internet: mats@enea.se

hedrick@topaz.UUCP (02/14/87)

Unfortunately the term "Big Ben" doesn't mean anything to me.  Xerox
Interlisp workstations definitely support TCP/IP.  Our Xerox salesman
claimed that the Mesa software would support TCP/IP sometime in 86.  I
suggest talking to your Xerox salesman.

zben@umd5.UUCP (02/17/87)

In article <9233@topaz.RUTGERS.EDU> hedrick@topaz.RUTGERS.EDU (Charles Hedrick) writes:

> Unfortunately the term "Big Ben" doesn't mean anything to me.  ...

Quoted from the original article:

> From: mats@enea.UUCP (Mats Josefsson)
> Organization: ENEA DATA Svenska AB, Sweden
> ...
> Mats Josefsson, ENEA DATA, Sweden

Careful there.  "Big Ben" might be a European marketing name for something
sold in the U.S. under a different name.  Might even be something not sold
in the U.S. at all.  In any case, let's not be cultural chauvenists here.
Name changes do happen in international marketing, sometimes for the most
innocent of reasons.  Remember what Coca Cola means in Chinese, and why
they changed it?  :-)   (I don't remember but it was pretty ikky...)
-- 
                    umd5.UUCP    <= {seismo!mimsy,ihnp4!rlgvax}!cvl!umd5!zben
Ben Cranston zben @ umd2.UMD.EDU    Kingdom of Merryland UniSys 1100/92
                    umd2.BITNET     "via HASP with RSCS"

ken@rochester.UUCP (02/18/87)

|innocent of reasons.  Remember what Coca Cola means in Chinese, and why
|they changed it?  :-)   (I don't remember but it was pretty ikky...)

Actually it wasn't "Coca Cola" but the slogan "Coke adds life" which
some inept translator rendered as "Coke brings your ancestors back from
the dead".

	Ken

Disclaimer: all the trademarks in this posting are somebody's trademarks.

dw@rocksanne.UUCP (02/18/87)

In article <1690@enea.UUCP>, mats@enea.UUCP (Mats Josefsson) writes:
> 
> I'm looking for a way to connect Sun-3 workstations with 
> Xerox (Big Ben) workstations using Ethernet.  The main
> requirement is to be able to transfer files, but the need
> for more functionality will surely arise when people 
> start using the systems.
>
> [Plus some stuff about ways to do this]

It depends on what software you're running on the Xerox workstation. If
you're running XDE or Lisp you're in luck, for both support TCP/IP.
If you're running Viewpoint, though, you've gotta talk XNS.

Note: TCP/IP is supported in XDE 5.0, which has been available for a few
months.

/Don
-- 
"Spock's on drugs. Blast him with the phasers!"
						
Don Wegeng	Wegeng.Henr@Xerox.COM	seismo!rochester!rocksanne!dw

steve@mimsy.UUCP (02/18/87)

In article <1690@enea.UUCP> mats@enea.UUCP (Mats Josefsson) writes:
[stuff about wanting to talk between Suns and Xeroxes deleted]
>1. Get XNS for the Sun systems.  I know there is (limited)
>   XNS support in the BSD 4.3 distribution for the VAX.
>   Does anyone know if Sun is going to support XNS in any
>   future release of their os?  The Sun's that I have looked
>   at are 4.2 based and I couldn't find any references to
>   XNS in the documentation or elsewhere. We are BSD 4.3 
>   source licensees,  but I can't afford to try a port myself.

   It's not clear exactly what's going on with regard to Sun support
for XNS.  A NFS meeting last April said that SunOS 4.0 was going to
include 4.3BSD networking, and leaving out XNS would be, in my opinion,
silly.  It's also rumored that someone in the Sun Consulting group is
stuffing yet another XNS implementation into 4.2, so you might talk
to your Sun sales rep (or whatever other appropriate warm body seems
handy) about what if anything is being done in this area.  Some
Sun people have indicated (Usenix Sun BOF a month ago) that there
isn't demand for XNS on Suns, but I seem to answer a lot of questions
from people who want it...

   I have ported the whole of the 4.3BSD networking stuff (at the
kernel level, at least, plus some user-level programs) into a Sun
3.0 kernel.  I've had it more-or-less stable for a month now, but
while I had hoped to put more time into it (enough to turn it into
a product for everyone, not just wizards) it now appears that I
just won't be able to come up with that time.  I intend to do just a
little more work on my stuff, then make it available somehow to the
Internet community at large.

   I (and here I want to stress that "I" != "University of Maryland") am
really rather distressed at the time it has taken and will take for
Sun to get 4.3 networking into the hands of its customers.  The 4.2
networking implementation is, as I think we will all admit, seriously
deficient in some areas, and Sun hasn't corrected those deficiencies.
I know that Sun has their reasons (involving a product that doesn't
work under 4.3 networking), but I'd *love* to hear more details.
Anyone out there care to comment?

>2. Get TCP/IP for the Xerox machines. I have a (slightly 
>   outdated) version of the "TCP/IP vendors and implementations
>   guide" but there is no mention of any Xerox hardware or
>   software in it.

   There has been TCP/IP support in Interlisp for a while now, but
as I've never used it I don't know how good it is.  Xerox has also
done work recently to put a TCP/IP implementation into their XDE
5.0 release.  We've been a test site for this stuff for a long time.
The implementation is like many others in that it is good in some ways,
and bad in others.  It's certainly not going to work as a gateway without
modification, but it does understand subnets and there's some stuff
from ISI that lets it use the name server; that's more than a lot of
other vendors do!

   I recall a comment somewhere to the effect that TCP/IP will make
it into ViewPoint sometime around the 2.0 release.  Hopefully, your
Xerox vendor will have more information about when the different
Xerox TCP/IP implementations will be available.

>3. Get some sort of gateway/bridge which will do the conversion
>   between TCP/IP and XNS,  possibly using different LAN's.
>   This seems to be a really ugly solution.

   Yes, probably, but maybe a good thesis for someone.

>Mats Josefsson, ENEA DATA, Sweden
>
>UUCP: {seismo,mcvax,munnari,cernvax,diku,inria,prlb2,penet,ukc,unido}!enea!mats
>Internet: mats@enea.se

-- 
Spoken: Steve Miller 	ARPA:	steve@mimsy.umd.edu	Phone: +1-301-454-4251
CSNet:	steve@mimsy.umd.edu 	UUCP:	{seismo,allegra}!mimsy!steve
USPS: Computer Science Dept., University of Maryland, College Park, MD 20742

mats@enea.UUCP (02/19/87)

First, I want to thank everyone that has responded to my query
on communication between Sun and Xerox workstations.  From the
answers I've got this far the best solution seems to be a package
called XDE from Xerox.  The latest release (5.0 of Feb -87)
supports TCP/IP.  There are a few other options as well.  If
anyone is interested in my findings, send me mail and I'll
summarize.

There seems to be some confusion about the name "Big Ben" which
I used in my query.  As I understand it, "Big Ben" is a version
of (or a nickname for) the Xerox 6085 workstation.  Maybe it's
just a local marketing name, I don't know.  Anyway, I called
my local Xerox office asking for info on "Big Ben" and they
sent brochures describing the 6085.
-- 
Mats Josefsson, ENEA DATA, Sweden

UUCP: {seismo,mcvax,munnari,cernvax,diku,inria,prlb2,penet,ukc,unido}!enea!mats
Internet: mats@enea.se

newbery@vuwcomp.UUCP (02/20/87)

In article <24944@rochester.ARPA> ken@rochester.UUCP (SKY) writes:
||innocent of reasons.  Remember what Coca Cola means in Chinese, and why
||they changed it?  :-)   (I don't remember but it was pretty ikky...)
|
|Actually it wasn't "Coca Cola" but the slogan "Coke adds life" which
|some inept translator rendered as "Coke brings your ancestors back from
|the dead".

I believe the phonetic transliteration of Coca Cola translates as
"Bite the wax tadpole" ! See "The Wizard Masters of Peng-Shi Angle" by
Frederik Pohl.




-- 
Michael Newbery

ACSnet:	newbery@vuwcomp.nz  UUCP: {ubc-vision,alberta}!calgary!vuwcomp!newbery
Une boule qui roule tue les poules.		(Landslides kill chickens)