andrew@frip.gwd.tek.com (Andrew Klossner) (01/09/88)
[This isn't very architectural, so follow-ups have been directed to
comp.unix.wizards only.]
"I also see making parts of UNIX (sh ?) in ROM as a bad idea
since it tends to greatly increase the
development/repair/evolution time. If we had to unplug chips
and bring an engineer in every time there is a PTF for a part
of a system, it would cost someone too much somewhere, and the
changes would never get made."
Changing a ROM doesn't have to be complicated. A good example of a
system where it's blessedly easy to change a ROM is the Atari 2600 home
video game system. Shoving a ROM into the slot is easier than loading
a cassette tape deck.
[No, I don't run Unix on my video game. Or my cassette deck. :-) ]
-=- Andrew Klossner (decvax!tektronix!tekecs!andrew) [UUCP]
(andrew%tekecs.tek.com@relay.cs.net) [ARPA]trb@stag.UUCP ( Todd Burkey ) (01/11/88)
[I disagree...this should be in comp.arch...] In article <9601@tekecs.TEK.COM> andrew@frip.gwd.tek.com (Andrew Klossner) writes: > >Changing a ROM doesn't have to be complicated. A good example of a >system where it's blessedly easy to change a ROM is the Atari 2600 home >video game system. Shoving a ROM into the slot is easier than loading >a cassette tape deck. I agree. My wifes' Epson Geneva Portable has the entire OS on ROM (only CP/M, but still...) and she is always popping the Roms out and putting different things in (they have little handles on them and are keyed so you can't stick them in wrong.) I think this works great because 1) she never has to use the slow cassette, and 2) her Roms won't wear out (barring shocks). I also think the manufacturer may do a better job of debugging the original OS if it is released on ROM. Of course, I am biased, since I also own an ST (TOS and GEM on Rom) and really don't miss the old days of having to worry about which version of OS I had to use for which program on my mac, amiga, and even sometimes on the PC. At last count, I still have 7 different startup disks for my mac, about 5 DOS's for the IBM PC, and used to move back and forth between 3 different kickstart/workbench combos on the Amiga (although that has improved lately according to friends). The only thing having the OS on ROM on my Symmetrics system would give me is a nice warm feeling when I think of file security/integrity, or the fun it would be to rebuild things from floppies. What I would really like is to have all of the most commonly used programs on ROM (vi, cc, libraries, etc) for that tiny improvement over disk access speed. That is what really makes my wifes Geneva system nice...she can pop back and forth between wordstar, basic, and a communications program very, very quickly (for CP/M :-) ). -Todd Burkey trb@stag.UUCP
steve@polyslo.UUCP (Steve DeJarnett) (01/12/88)
In article <9601@tekecs.TEK.COM> andrew@frip.gwd.tek.com (Andrew Klossner) writes: >Changing a ROM doesn't have to be complicated. A good example of a >system where it's blessedly easy to change a ROM is the Atari 2600 home >video game system. Shoving a ROM into the slot is easier than loading >a cassette tape deck. Oh boy, and what happens if some pinhead pops in the "Space Invaders" cartridge instead of the "4.3BSD Kernel & related stuff" cartridge. Well, I guess that might cut down on NetNews traffic :-). (Sorry, I couldn't resist. Sounds like something our Computer Center) (might do.) ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- | Steve DeJarnett | ...!ihnp4!csun!polyslo!steve | | Computer Systems Lab | ...!{csustan,csun,sdsu}!polyslo!steve | | Cal Poly State Univ. | ...!ucbvax!voder!polyslo!steve | | San Luis Obispo, CA 93407 | | ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- #include <std_disclaimer.h> "Totally and completely unaffiliated with the Cal Poly Computer Center."
dale@lamont.Columbia.edu (dale chayes) (01/14/88)
Hewlett-Packard has been making "unix in a rom" machines for some time now. The original was a "sort of" SYSIII, but they have produced and upgraded version that is reasonably SYSV. It boots lots faster..... I mostly use it for an IEEE insturment controller, but also as a terminal. -- Dale Chayes Lamont-Doherty Geological Observatory of Columbia University usmail: Route 9W, Palisades, N.Y. 10964 voice: (914) 359-2900 extension 434 fax: (914) 359-6817 usnet: ...philabs!lamont!dale