root@stcns3.stc.oz (System Supervisor) (03/03/88)
(If this comes from "Unknown", don't bother telling me. I already know! I'm posting from "root" this time) Anyway, Is there any way in Sys V to get to use arbitrary erase/kill characters while logging in? Why those brain-damaged #/@ characters are still used, I don't know. I haven't seen a hard-copy terminal for quite some time... Blimey, even Xenix allows BKSP and ^U in the login prompt stage! Anyway, here's an idea. Extend gettydefs to allow specifications of the form "erase=^H kill=^U". They could even be made the default after login. Or somehow convince ATT + dealers that #/@ is silly. Does ANYONE out there still use them?
bd@hpsemc.HP.COM (bob desinger) (03/09/88)
System Supervisor (root@stcns3.stc.oz) writes: > Why those brain-damaged #/@ characters are still used, > I don't know.... Does ANYONE out there still use them? Sure. They're the only characters guaranteed to work while logging in on nearly any version of Unix. You can amaze the newer people at work when you use `@' to correct login mistakes. (Preserve your Unix Cool. Use `@' for login goofs.) Not everyone uses ^U for kill, either. Being a ksh user who favors the gmacs style of command editing, I use ^G for my kill character; ^U is usurped as a prefix for counts. -- bd
decot@hpisod2.HP.COM (Dave Decot) (03/11/88)
> Anyway, here's an idea. Extend gettydefs to allow specifications of > the form "erase=^H kill=^U". They could even be made the default after > login. Or somehow convince ATT + dealers that #/@ is silly. Does ANYONE > out there still use them? We solved this in HP-UX by having getty accept both sets of characters as erase and kill. You can use #, or ^H for erase, and @ or ^U for kill. If you use ^H while trying to enter the login name or password, getty will set your erase character to ^H. Likewise with ^U. It gets hard, though, if you have these characters in your username or your password. :-) Dave Decot hpda!decot
ugfailau@sunybcs.uucp (Fai Lau) (03/12/88)
System Supervisor (root@stcns3.stc.oz) writes: > Why those brain-damaged #/@ characters are still used, > I don't know.... Does ANYONE out there still use them? Hey, you can never tell. There are people using emacs, is that right? I mean, can you say "arrow keys?" BTW, I'm still amazed at how those people actually came up all these features for history substitution. Does anyone really use those? Why can't it be simple like that of VMS? Fai Lau SUNY at Buffalo (The Arctic Wonderland) UU: ..{rutgers,ames}!sunybcs!ugfailau BI: ugfailau@sunybcs INT: ugfailau@joey.cs.buffalo.EDU
det@hawkmoon.MN.ORG (Derek E. Terveer) (03/13/88)
In article <263@stcns3.stc.oz>, root@stcns3.stc.oz (System Supervisor) writes: > Is there any way in Sys V to get to use arbitrary erase/kill characters > while logging in? Why those brain-damaged #/@ characters are still used, > I don't know. I haven't seen a hard-copy terminal for quite some time... At least these chars, albeit brain damaged, are standard! (:-) The problem with letting everyone define their very own erase/kill chars is that then noone knows what to use. For you, for example, the preferred and intuitive chars are bs and ^U. I on the other hand *hate* ^U and use bs and ^X (like it says in ascii - cancel!). Don't get me wrong, I'm not flaming your choice of chars, just pointing out that a little more chaos would creep in with those kinds of settable params. If you have source code you can easily change it. At the very least, #/@ should be supported... -- Derek Terveer det@hawkmoon.MN.ORG uunet!rosevax!elric!hawkmoon!det
rbj@icst-cmr.arpa (Root Boy Jim) (03/18/88)
In some article, root@stcns3.stc.oz (System Supervisor) writes: > Is there any way in Sys V to get to use arbitrary erase/kill characters > while logging in? Why those brain-damaged #/@ characters are still used, > I don't know. I haven't seen a hard-copy terminal for quite some time... At least these chars, albeit brain damaged, are standard! (:-) Wrong. I'm willing to bet the great majority of unix users *never* used either of these characters for either function. problem with letting everyone define their very own erase/kill chars is that then noone knows what to use. For you, for example, the preferred and intuitive chars are bs and ^U. I on the other hand *hate* ^U and use bs and ^X (like it says in ascii - cancel!). Cancel? Why not just NAK it :-) But seriously, BSD's standard control chars (erase is DEL, kill is ^U) are what DEC has been using for years, all the way back to RT-11. The only difference is ^D vs ^Z. Don't get me wrong, I'm not flaming your choice of chars, just pointing out that a little more chaos would creep in with those kinds of settable params. If you have source code you can easily change it. At the very least, #/@ should be supported... -- Derek No. #/@ should be dropped. They are graphics, not control characters. Whichever you choose, at least pick them from the right set. Terveer det@hawkmoon.MN.ORG uunet!rosevax!elric!hawkmoon!det (Root Boy) Jim Cottrell <rbj@icst-cmr.arpa> National Bureau of Standards Flamer's Hotline: (301) 975-5688 I guess it was all a DREAM.. or an episode of HAWAII FIVE-O...
washer@lll-crg.llnl.gov (Jim Washer) (03/18/88)
On my machine, i can control all of the stty functions thru the gettydefs file. How about others, or is mine a little strange? jim washer lll-crg!isaac!washer
bd@hpsemc.HP.COM (bob desinger) (03/25/88)
Fai Lau (ugfailau@sunybcs.uucp) sneers: > Hey, you can never tell. There are people using > emacs, is that right? I mean, can you say "arrow keys?" I know lots of people who use emacs and who never use the arrow keys. (I'm one.) But that's beside the point. The nice thing about computers is that they're flexible enough to accomodate both kinds of people: ones who choose arrow keys and ones who choose C-n and C-p. Or ^H/^U and #/@. Computers---really, programmers---should give people the freedom to use their preferences. > BTW, I'm still amazed at how those people actually > came up all these features for history substitution. Does anyone > really use those? Why can't it be simple like that of VMS? Assuming you mean csh's jumble of !, :p, :s, :gs, ?, and other history-fetching commands, yes, there are people who use them. (I won't bother to say who this time; you can guess by now, right?) If you don't like all those characters or don't want to remember them, ignore them. Anyway, now I use the Korn shell. It greatly simplifies history-fetching because it uses my editor's commands. I no longer need to remember two paradigms and command sets in order to move around in either my history stack or my files. I suspect that's what your real argument is about VMS---command editing and history fetching should be natural. [The VMS history stack is accessed through the arrow keys on the terminal; you move back and forth by pressing the arrow keys, then editing as desired.] One man's meat, -- bd