[comp.unix.wizards] ranking on IBM

schwartz@cs.swarthmore.edu (Scott Schwartz) (08/15/88)

In article <276@quintus.UUCP> ok@quintus.UUCP (Richard A. O'Keefe) writes:
>In article <19709@tut.cis.ohio-state.edu> mudd-j@pike.cis.ohio-state.edu (John R. Mudd) writes:
>>In article <269@quintus.UUCP> ok@quintus.UUCP (Richard A. O'Keefe) writes:
>>>In article <670025@hpclscu.HP.COM> shankar@hpclscu.HP.COM (Shankar Unni) writes:
>>>:Product quality is usually priority number 1
>>>Have you ever used VM/CMS?
>>but I *liked* VM/CMS from a user point-of-view.
>
>I can see your point of view, I mean, 80-column records and tape drives
>I'm talking about ordinary user-level programs written in PL/I being able
>to crash a user's virtual machine and trash a virtual disk on the way.

Not just ordinary programs do this, either.  Happens all the time with
ISPF or SQL; applications that you know IBM cares a lot about and
expects a whole range of users to mess with. (At least the crashing
part.  I haven't lost a mini disk yet.)

> ...
In recent releases of vm/cms there were only a limited number of files
that could be spooled at a time, something like 10K.  I've heard of
instances where a 3090 with a bitnet connection to a unix site crashed
and could not be rebooted because there were too many files (usenet
articles, probably :-) waiting to be shipped over.  I'm told that this
has been fixed. 

One claim that IBM loving friends of mine have made is that on site
service is very good.  If true, this could be a good selling
point.  Big sites worry a lot about maintainance.

>And so on.  IBM have many strengths, and VM/CMS software
>is no more flaky than a lot of other stuff, but it is nothing special
>either.

Very likely true.


-- 
Scott Schwartz  <schwartz@swarthmore.edu>  <psuvax1!vu-vlsi!swatsun!schwartz>

jtn@potomac.ads.com (John T. Nelson) (08/29/88)

> One claim that IBM loving friends of mine have made is that on site
> service is very good.  If true, this could be a good selling
> point.  Big sites worry a lot about maintainance.


IBM probably sees to it that you NEED that support by developing
hardware and software that is either unreliable or unapproachable by
anyone except trained individuals.

Guess where you get the training.

I seem to recall that at one time you were *required* by your sales
contract to maintain IBM representatives at your site for hardware and
software support.  Fortunately those bad old days are past.




-- 

John T. Nelson			UUCP: sun!sundc!potomac!jtn
Advanced Decision Systems	Internet:  jtn@potomac.ads.com
1500 Wilson Blvd #512; Arlington, VA 22209-2401		(703) 243-1611

Shar and Enjoy!

barmar@think.COM (Barry Margolin) (08/30/88)

In article <6855@potomac.ads.com> jtn@potomac.ads.com (John T. Nelson) writes:
>IBM probably sees to it that you NEED that support by developing
>hardware and software that is either unreliable or unapproachable by
>anyone except trained individuals.

Where have you been for the last thirty years?  IBM has one of the
best reputations in the industry for their hardware.

As for self-service, how many computer vendors actually allow sites to
do their own servicing?  I doubt that there are many mainframe systems
that are serviceable by untrained personnel.  Field service is a fact
of life in the large-system world.  And IBM's field service
organization also has a good rep.

Of course, I wouldn't ever want to have to use IBM systems much, but
that is because of the software.

Barry Margolin
Thinking Machines Corp.

barmar@think.com
{uunet,harvard}!think!barmar