stevens@hsi.UUCP (Richard Stevens) (09/21/88)
AT&T is now promoting their "Software Developer Conferences"
for System V, Release 4.0 (the merging of System V and SunOS).
The first one ended last week in New York, and from what I heard
on the net, was "sold out" ahead of time. I really don't want to
take 3 days to attend one of these, unless the content is really good.
(I remember Microsoft and IBM doing this for many $$$ for OS/2
a year or so ago.)
Can someone who attended tell us if it was worthwhile ??
Is all of the information available elsewhere, so we don't have
to sit at a conference for 3 days to find out what'll change,
or are they trying to "coerce" you to attend just to find out
what's going on ??
Richard Stevens
Health Systems International, New Haven, CT
stevens@hsi.uu.net
... { uunet | yale } ! hsi ! stevenshenry@utzoo.uucp (Henry Spencer) (09/23/88)
In article <167@hsi86.hsi.UUCP> stevens@hsi.UUCP (Richard Stevens) writes: >Can someone who attended tell us if it was worthwhile ?? A friend who attended said it was horrifying, actually... -- NASA is into artificial | Henry Spencer at U of Toronto Zoology stupidity. - Jerry Pournelle | uunet!attcan!utzoo!henry henry@zoo.toronto.edu
gwyn@smoke.ARPA (Doug Gwyn ) (09/24/88)
In article <1988Sep22.173745.14647@utzoo.uucp> henry@utzoo.uucp (Henry Spencer) writes: >A friend who attended said it was horrifying, actually... Come on, Henry, how about some INFORMATION.
henry@utzoo.uucp (Henry Spencer) (09/27/88)
In article <8570@smoke.ARPA> gwyn@brl.arpa (Doug Gwyn (VLD/VMB) <gwyn>) writes: >>A friend who attended said it was horrifying, actually... > >Come on, Henry, how about some INFORMATION. Herewith roughly what my friend told me. Note, this is him talking (more or less, I did the typing based on my notes from a phone call to him -- he's hard to reach by mail), not me. I take no responsibility for errors! :-) --------- The biggest problem is "filling in the gap rather than narrowing it". "Why do you want both NFS and RFS?" Many people saw this as pointless duplication of effort, leading to unnecessary complexity and all the problems that brings. Details on licensing were scarce. Worse, direct questions on the subject were evaded rather than answered. There is no agreement between AT&T and Sun to avoid divergence of the two systems *after* SVR4. This horrified everyone. "Then what's the point of all this?!?" The kernels will be very big, probably needing a 16MB machine just to get started. Nobody liked the sound of that. Administration will be a nightmare, especially with two different network filesystems and all the permission complications that implies. What are the semantics and implications of symbolic links in such an environment? Training people to use and administer such a complex system will be lengthy and difficult. There was inadequate detail on the commands that will be part of the standard environment. ABI implies that a conforming machine must have kernel support for both NeWS *and* X. This is ridiculous for people who plan to run neither. The over-friendly system-administration interface isolates even the knowledgeable administrator from what is really happening underneath. This is fine IF IT WORKS ONE HUNDRED PERCENT. People with experience with things like 3Bs know damn well that it doesn't, at least not as normally supplied by AT&T. And when it doesn't work, you're up the creek, since the internals are not documented. Troubleshooting one's own problems is impossible. In general, overall, the system is not getting simpler or cleaner. Quite the contrary: it is getting bloated, complex, and slow. It will be difficult and expensive to run, support, and learn. As for the presentation, it was good but not great. The level of detail was inconsistent and often ridiculously low for software developers. "Two hours one morning when we learned nothing whatsoever." "Much more technical content could have been provided in the same length of time." People did *not* like the way some questions, e.g. licensing, were evaded rather than answered; even an honest "I don't know" (which is what the real software people normally said in that situation) is better. --------- -- NASA is into artificial | Henry Spencer at U of Toronto Zoology stupidity. - Jerry Pournelle | uunet!attcan!utzoo!henry henry@zoo.toronto.edu
greg@orbity.Jpl.Nasa.Gov (Greg Cooper) (09/27/88)
In article <1988Sep26.213223.407@utzoo.uucp> henry@utzoo.uucp (Henry Spencer) writes: quoting a friend of his... > >ABI implies that a conforming machine must have kernel support for both >NeWS *and* X. This is ridiculous for people who plan to run neither. > The versions of NeWS and X that I use run in user mode with no support provided by the kernel other than what they provide to all other programs. Is this going to change? I hope not! Greg Cooper greg@elroy.jpl.nasa.gov
kramer@bionette.CS.ORST.EDU (Jack Kramer - CMBL) (09/27/88)
I would like to continue reading this group but all the clutter takes up too much time. Is there any way to filter out messages from particular persons such as Henry Spencer.
davidsen@steinmetz.ge.com (William E. Davidsen Jr) (09/28/88)
I'd like to post a few comments on the ATT V.4 conferences. I haven't been yet, but have a few general comments. In article <1988Sep26.213223.407@utzoo.uucp> henry@utzoo.uucp (Henry Spencer) writes: | The kernels will be very big, probably needing a 16MB machine just to get | started. Nobody liked the sound of that. A Sun rep told me that it would run on our 4MB Sun/3 and 386i machines. He didn't know or wouldn't say about the Sun/2. | Training people to use and administer such a complex system will be | lengthy and difficult. I really doubt that the user will know or care what the kernel does. Certainly most of our users don't care if a file is local or NFS mounted. | There was inadequate detail on the commands that will be part of the | standard environment. I heard the same thing. | ABI implies that a conforming machine must have kernel support for both | NeWS *and* X. This is ridiculous for people who plan to run neither. I would expect most if not all of that to be in device drivers. ABI doesn't imply that all machine have all possible devices, as far as I can see. Programs from identical version of V.3 won't port if the needed hardware isn't supported. | The over-friendly system-administration interface isolates even the | knowledgeable administrator from what is really happening underneath. ATT seems to have gone from "having to know all the nuts and bolts" to making them inaccessible. | In general, overall, the system is not getting simpler or cleaner. Quite | the contrary: it is getting bloated, complex, and slow. It will be | difficult and expensive to run, support, and learn. It's not getting smaller, for sure. If the extra features are added in a modular fashion I would expect that it would be cleaner. Disclamer: I've identified the fact, comments, and opinions pretty clearly. -- bill davidsen (wedu@ge-crd.arpa) {uunet | philabs}!steinmetz!crdos1!davidsen "Stupidity, like virtue, is its own reward" -me
mh@wlbr.EATON.COM (Mike Hoegeman) (09/28/88)
In article <1988Sep26.213223.407@utzoo.uucp> henry@utzoo.uucp (Henry Spencer) writes: >In article <8570@smoke.ARPA> gwyn@brl.arpa ... > ...etc... >ABI implies that a conforming machine must have kernel support for both >NeWS *and* X. This is ridiculous for people who plan to run neither. > Could You explain this? I don't understand why this would be so. Last time I looked NeWS and X did'nt need much in the way of kernel support. This is supposedly one of their strengths. thanks. -mike
chris@mimsy.UUCP (Chris Torek) (09/28/88)
In article <12248@steinmetz.ge.com> davidsen@steinmetz.ge.com (William E. Davidsen Jr) writes: >A Sun rep told me that [the merged Sun/SysV system] would run on our >4MB Sun/3 and 386i machines. Sun will also tell you that SunOS 3.x runs on a 1MB Sun 2. It does ---but it pages so much that it takes several tens of seconds to move windows! (Even a 4 MB Sun 3 running 3.2 or 3.5 is short on physical memory.) -- In-Real-Life: Chris Torek, Univ of MD Comp Sci Dept (+1 301 454 7163) Domain: chris@mimsy.umd.edu Path: uunet!mimsy!chris
barnett@vdsvax.steinmetz.ge.com (Bruce G. Barnett) (09/28/88)
In article <1988Sep26.213223.407@utzoo.uucp> henry@utzoo.uucp (Henry Spencer) writes: >quoting a friend of his... > >ABI implies that a conforming machine must have kernel support for both >NeWS *and* X. This is ridiculous for people who plan to run neither. I heard it as: If the V5R4 unix supports ANY window system, it has to support both X and NeWS. --
oz@yunexus.UUCP (Ozan Yigit) (09/29/88)
In article ??? henry@utzoo.uucp (Henry Spencer) writes: > >Herewith roughly what my friend told me. > >The kernels will be very big, probably needing a 16MB machine just to get >started. Nobody liked the sound of that. > Holy OS. Even VMS does not require that much. > >In general, overall, the system is not getting simpler or cleaner. Quite >the contrary: it is getting bloated, complex, and slow. It will be >difficult and expensive to run, support, and learn. > Nice to know there will be something else for more religious Un*xFolk to boo and hiss about becides VMS. :-) If your friend is correct, then this may be the equivalent of a time-warp: back to Multics. (boy, this would really make the Bell Labs people cringe !!...) I sincerely hope I will have other alternatives by the time this bagbiter comes into the market. oz -- Reflections are | Usenet: ...!utzoo!yunexus!oz images of tarnished aspirations. | ...uunet!mnetor!yunexus!oz RACTER | Bitnet: oz@[yulibra|yuyetti] [an Artifically Insane program.] | Phonet: +1 416 736-5257x3976
angelo@ist.CO.UK (News reading a/c for angelo) (09/29/88)
From article <1988Sep26.213223.407@utzoo.uucp>, by henry@utzoo.uucp (Henry Spencer): > > In general, overall, the system is not getting simpler or cleaner. Quite > the contrary: it is getting bloated, complex, and slow. It will be > difficult and expensive to run, support, and learn. > Sounds like VMS ;-) (Just watch those flames leap !!) Angelo (I'm operating system independent) Ruggiero email: angelo@ist.co.uk
peter@ficc.uu.net (Peter da Silva) (09/29/88)
In article <5634@vdsvax.steinmetz.ge.com>, barnett@vdsvax.steinmetz.ge.com (Bruce G. Barnett) writes: > > In article <1988Sep26.213223.407@utzoo.uucp> henry@utzoo.uucp (Henry Spencer) writes: > >ABI implies that a conforming machine must have kernel support for both > >NeWS *and* X. This is ridiculous for people who plan to run neither. > I heard it as: > If the V5R4 unix supports ANY window system, it has to support > both X and NeWS. Well we know it's going to be a dog anyway. What if you want to stick Blit terminals on it? Does that count? -- Peter da Silva `-_-' Ferranti International Controls Corporation. "Have you hugged U your wolf today?" peter@ficc.uu.net
daveh@marob.MASA.COM (Dave Hammond) (09/29/88)
In article <6638@orstcs.CS.ORST.EDU> kramer@bionette.UUCP (Jack Kramer - CMBL) writes: >I would like to continue reading this group but all the clutter takes >up too much time. Is there any way to filter out messages from >particular persons such as Henry Spencer. Since you haven't indicated that the above is intended as humor, I feel bound to inform you that Henry Spencer is one of the most knowledgeable and respected Unix community members. His contributions of software and sage council are (Unix) world reknown and take a back seat to precious few others. I, for one, hope that Henry keeps providing Usenet with the same high quality contributions that he always has in the past. If you truly feel Henry's words are a waste of _your_ time, I suggest you read up on how to add him to your news `kills' file. However, in my opinion you would be doing yourself a great disservice by doing so. BTW, I am not a Henry Spencer groupie. I simply appreciate the good advice that he and the dozens of other unix.wizards regulars dispense. I have learned more about Unix from reading Usenet than any other source in the past few years. Dave Hammond UUCP: uunet!masa.com!{marob|dsix2}!daveh DOMAIN: daveh@marob.masa.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
henry@utzoo.uucp (Henry Spencer) (09/30/88)
I should add some clarifications on some of the things I posted; some conversations with Sun people have led to some extra illumination. >The kernels will be very big, probably needing a 16MB machine just to get >started. Nobody liked the sound of that. This appears to have been somewhat exaggerated, but you will need 4MB, and one wonders how good performance will be in 4 (given that existing recent Sun releases don't exactly sparkle in 4). >Training people to use and administer such a complex system will be >lengthy and difficult. People have misunderstood this to mean "training every user". Individual users don't have to understand the whole mess. Unfortunately, a competent system administrator or systems programmer *does*, and that's the real problem area. (The sysadmin needs to know about it all to make sure that he isn't doing something that will have unexpected consequences; the systems programmer needs to know what tools he's got to work with.) >ABI implies that a conforming machine must have kernel support for both >NeWS *and* X. This is ridiculous for people who plan to run neither. I'm told that there is no particular kernel support needed, but the relevant libraries must be present even if the machine runs no windowing at all. The reason is to be sure that people on that machine can use windowing facilities on other machines, if present. -- The meek can have the Earth; | Henry Spencer at U of Toronto Zoology the rest of us have other plans.|uunet!attcan!utzoo!henry henry@zoo.toronto.edu
rta@pixar.UUCP (Rick Ace) (09/30/88)
In article <6638@orstcs.CS.ORST.EDU>, kramer@bionette.CS.ORST.EDU (Jack Kramer - CMBL) writes: > I would like to continue reading this group but all the clutter takes > up too much time. Is there any way to filter out messages from > particular persons such as Henry Spencer. That fact that Henry Spencer devotes his time to contribute quality articles to this newsgroup is one of the principal reasons I still devote my time to read it. Rick Ace ...!{sun,ucbvax}!pixar!rta
shap@polya.Stanford.EDU (Jonathan S. Shapiro) (10/01/88)
No way SVR4 will require 16M. I have seen it running on reasonably configured machines. Jon Shapiro AT&T Bell Laboratories
joel@intelisc.UUCP (Joel Clark) (10/01/88)
In article <2494@pixar.UUCP> rta@pixar.UUCP (Rick Ace) writes: >In article <6638@orstcs.CS.ORST.EDU>, kramer@bionette.CS.ORST.EDU (Jack Kramer - CMBL) writes: >> I would like to continue reading this group but all the clutter takes >> up too much time. Is there any way to filter out messages from >> particular persons such as Henry Spencer. > >That fact that Henry Spencer devotes his time to contribute quality >articles to this newsgroup is one of the principal reasons I still >devote my time to read it. > >Rick Ace >...!{sun,ucbvax}!pixar!rta I'll second that!!! And add Chris Torek along with Henry Spencer. Joel Clark ...!{tektronix}!ogcvax!intelisc!joel
daveb@gonzo.UUCP (Dave Brower) (10/01/88)
In <6638@orstcs.CS.ORST.EDU> kramer@bionette.UUCP (Jack Kramer - CMBL) writes: >>I would like to continue reading this group but all the clutter takes >>up too much time. Is there any way to filter out messages from >>particular persons such as Henry Spencer. Though the pounding has started already, consider the possiblity he means a "positive" filter as opposed to a kill-file style negative filter. That is, he *only* wants to read articles from Henry or Chris or Doug or dmr. At least, that's what I thought he meant. I've wanted one too... -dB
jpr@dasys1.UUCP (Jean-Pierre Radley) (10/03/88)
In article <2494@pixar.UUCP> rta@pixar.UUCP (Rick Ace) writes: >That fact that Henry Spencer devotes his time to contribute quality >articles to this newsgroup is one of the principal reasons I still >devote my time to read it. Amen -- Time is nature's way of Jean-Pierre Radley making sure that everything ..!cmcl2!phri!dasys1!jpr doesn't happen all at once. CIS: 76120,1341
gwyn@smoke.ARPA (Doug Gwyn ) (10/03/88)
In article <1988Sep26.213223.407@utzoo.uucp> henry@utzoo.uucp (Henry Spencer) writes: >There is no agreement between AT&T and Sun to avoid divergence of the >two systems *after* SVR4. This horrified everyone. "Then what's the >point of all this?!?" That is so bone-headed as to be hard to believe. Would somebody "on the inside" at AT&T or Sun PLEASE confirm or deny this? Thanks for the information, Henry.
gwyn@smoke.ARPA (Doug Gwyn ) (10/03/88)
In article <6638@orstcs.CS.ORST.EDU> kramer@bionette.UUCP (Jack Kramer - CMBL) writes: >Is there any way to filter out messages from >particular persons such as Henry Spencer. That depends on your specific mailer and/or newsreader; RTFM. Why would you want to filter out Henry? He's one of the few proponents of reasonable UNIX environments, albeit a bit dour.
gwyn@smoke.ARPA (Doug Gwyn ) (10/03/88)
In article <1649@ficc.uu.net> peter@ficc.uu.net (Peter da Silva) writes: >What if you want to stick Blit terminals on it? Does that count? I assume you mean the whole Blit ("xt" protocol) family, which includes the 5620, 615, 625, 630, and PC/Layers. It shouldn't be hard to port the existing stuff to SVR4, since all it really needs is either kernel support for multiplexing (easy enough with STREAMS) or a user-mode multiplexer, which is available from several sources including AT&T-formerly-Teletype. Pre-STREAMS "xt" support used a special pseudo-device driver (that also handled details of the "xt" protocol), but BSD-based systems usually have used ptys with user-mode protocol handling and multiplexing. If SVR4 doesn't have enough hooks for at least one of these approaches to work, it won't be worth using anyway.
peter@ficc.uu.net (Peter da Silva) (10/03/88)
In article <4194@polya.Stanford.EDU>, shap@polya.Stanford.EDU (Jonathan S. Shapiro) writes: > No way SVR4 will require 16M. I have seen it running on reasonably > configured machines. Define "Reasonably Configured". To me, SVR3 is already too big for "Reasonably Configured" machines. I have seen System III running on "Reasonably Configured" machines, but not with an 8086-family CPU. Reasonably Configured == entire system cost significantly less than a small car. Significantly less == no more than the down-payment. Small car == Hyundai Excel or Ford Festiva with cloth seats and air conditioning. -- Peter da Silva `-_-' Ferranti International Controls Corporation. "Have you hugged U your wolf today?" peter@ficc.uu.net
scott@dtscp1.UUCP (Scott Barman) (10/04/88)
In article <1988Sep29.173254.26081@utzoo.uucp> henry@utzoo.uucp (Henry Spencer) writes: >>ABI implies that a conforming machine must have kernel support for both >>NeWS *and* X. This is ridiculous for people who plan to run neither. > >I'm told that there is no particular kernel support needed, but the >relevant libraries must be present even if the machine runs no windowing >at all. The reason is to be sure that people on that machine can use >windowing facilities on other machines, if present. (Note: this is not directed at H. Spencer, just his informants) Once again someone is going to tell us how to run/operate/manage/program a system. Just once I would like to see an option left as an option and not have the damned thing shoved down our throats because someone who has the need for it thinks we all do! So what happens (as someone suggested) I want to hang a few blits off this machine? And the obvious (that comes with the obvious answer eluded to by Henry S.) why should I support NeWS in any form if my application is, has been, and will be X--by our choice? -- scott barman ..!gatech!dtscp1!scott
lwall@jpl-devvax.JPL.NASA.GOV (Larry Wall) (10/04/88)
In article <433@gonzo.UUCP> daveb@gonzo.UUCP (Dave Brower) writes: : In <6638@orstcs.CS.ORST.EDU> kramer@bionette.UUCP (Jack Kramer - CMBL) writes: : >>I would like to continue reading this group but all the clutter takes : >>up too much time. Is there any way to filter out messages from : >>particular persons such as Henry Spencer. : : Though the pounding has started already, consider the possiblity he : means a "positive" filter as opposed to a kill-file style negative : filter. That is, he *only* wants to read articles from Henry or Chris : or Doug or dmr. At least, that's what I thought he meant. I've wanted : one too... Add something like the following line to your kill file: /^/%(%f!=henry@utzoo|chris@mimsy?j) If that doesn't work, it ought to. Larry Wall lwall@jpl-devvax.jpl.nasa.gov
jpr@dasys1.UUCP (Jean-Pierre Radley) (10/05/88)
In article <8613@smoke.ARPA> gwyn@brl.arpa (Doug Gwyn (VLD/VMB) <gwyn>) writes: >In article <6638@orstcs.CS.ORST.EDU> kramer@bionette.UUCP (Jack Kramer - CMBL) writes: >>Is there any way to filter out messages from >>particular persons such as Henry Spencer. > >That depends on your specific mailer and/or newsreader; RTFM. > >Why would you want to filter out Henry? He's one of the few >proponents of reasonable UNIX environments, albeit a bit dour. This whole discussion sub-thread may be a case study to submit to Willam Safire for his "On Language" column in the Sunday New York Times Magazine. English isn't quite as precise as {C,French,...,you_name_it}. The ellipsis "... filter out Henry..." could mean either: I want to filter out from the big pile everything of Henry's and put Henry's stuff into my reading folder. or I want to filter anything of Henry's out of the big pile and put what's left into my reading folder. -- Time is nature's way of Jean-Pierre Radley making sure that everything ..!cmcl2!phri!dasys1!jpr doesn't happen all at once. CIS: 76120,1341
ron@motmpl.UUCP (Ron Widell) (10/05/88)
In article <433@gonzo.UUCP> daveb@gonzo.UUCP (Dave Brower) writes: -In <6638@orstcs.CS.ORST.EDU> kramer@bionette.UUCP (Jack Kramer - CMBL) writes: ->>I would like to continue reading this group but all the clutter takes ->>up too much time. Is there any way to filter out messages from ->>particular persons such as Henry Spencer. - -Though the pounding has started already, consider the possiblity he -means a "positive" filter as opposed to a kill-file style negative -filter. That is, he *only* wants to read articles from Henry or Chris -or Doug or dmr. At least, that's what I thought he meant. I've wanted -one too... - --dB I was of the same opinion as Dave (it's my charitable nature :-)). And, like him I would like to limit the bulk of my news reading time to those messages authored by people who, IMHO, are knowledgeable, thoughtful and helpful (I won't bother to name you, you know who you are). Ideally this should be a two part feature: 1) Something similar to the "=" which displays the Subject: and the Author: 2) The ability to select those articles in a given Subject: which I want to read. -- Ron Widell |UUCP: motmpl!ron Motorola Semiconductor Products, Inc., |Voice:(612)941-6800 9600 W. 76th St., Suite G Eden Prairie, Mn. 55344 -3718 << Usual Disclaimer >>
bzs@xenna (Barry Shein) (10/06/88)
>BTW, I am not a Henry Spencer groupie. I simply appreciate the good >advice that he and the dozens of other unix.wizards regulars dispense. >I have learned more about Unix from reading Usenet than any other source in >the past few years. > >Dave Hammond Gee, I'm a Henry Spencer groupie! Any more of that plaster left? -Barry Shein, ||Encore||
ron@ron.rutgers.edu (Ron Natalie) (10/07/88)
I've still got a few of the casting kits available. I wasn't able to distribute them all. _Ron
jc@minya.UUCP (John Chambers) (10/07/88)
In article <2494@pixar.UUCP>, rta@pixar.UUCP (Rick Ace) writes: > In article <6638@orstcs.CS.ORST.EDU>, kramer@bionette.CS.ORST.EDU (Jack Kramer - CMBL) writes: > > I would like to continue reading this group but all the clutter takes > > up too much time. Is there any way to filter out messages from > > particular persons such as Henry Spencer. > > That fact that Henry Spencer devotes his time to contribute quality > articles to this newsgroup is one of the principal reasons I still > devote my time to read it. Hear, hear! But more to the point: The fellow asked a question that has a simple answer; rather than posting yet another ad hominem insult, why not just answer him? I mean, some of us find Henry's postings of a much higher quality (read: informative) than most others. But perhaps some readers already know everything Henry does; perhaps others aren't as interested in being informed. De gustibus.... Oh, yes, the answer. The 'rn' news interface has exactly the capability he wants. Many people think it's better than vnews. Now how about some nearby archive sending him a copy? -- John Chambers <{adelie,ima,maynard,mit-eddie}!minya!{jc,root}> (617/484-6393) [Any errors in the above are due to failures in the logic of the keyboard, not in the fingers that did the typing.]
gwyn@smoke.ARPA (Doug Gwyn ) (10/07/88)
In article <3819@encore.UUCP> bzs@xenna (Barry Shein) writes: >Any more of that plaster left? You may recall that the cup wasn't very big. Probably isn't room for two in it.
henry@utzoo.uucp (Henry Spencer) (10/08/88)
In article <3819@encore.UUCP> bzs@xenna (Barry Shein) writes: >Gee, I'm a Henry Spencer groupie! Um, Barry, old buddy, I hate to mention this, but the specifications for Henry Spencer groupies call for them to be young, female, and attractive, and you don't meet any of those criteria... :-) :-) -- The meek can have the Earth; | Henry Spencer at U of Toronto Zoology the rest of us have other plans.|uunet!attcan!utzoo!henry henry@zoo.toronto.edu
gregb@dowjone.UUCP (Greg_Baber) (10/10/88)
In article <6638@orstcs.CS.ORST.EDU> kramer@bionette.UUCP (Jack Kramer - CMBL) writes: >I would like to continue reading this group but all the clutter takes >up too much time. Is there any way to filter out messages from >particular persons such as Henry Spencer. I'm surprised to see this. I've only been reading news for about a year, but in that time, I've grown to respect and admire the comments of people like Henry, Chris Torek, Guy Harris, and others for their conciseness, clarity, and obvious devotion to fundamentals. It makes one wonder just what sort of postings the author feels are worthwhile. gregb -- Reply to: Gregory S. Baber Voice: (609) 520-5077 Dow Jones & Co., Inc. E-mail: ..princeton!dowjone!gregb Box 300 or ..uunet!dowjone!gregb Princeton, New Jersey 08543-0300
jfh@rpp386.Dallas.TX.US (The Beach Bum) (10/14/88)
In article <1988Oct7.210433.24573@utzoo.uucp> henry@utzoo.uucp (Henry Spencer) writes: >In article <3819@encore.UUCP> bzs@xenna (Barry Shein) writes: >>Gee, I'm a Henry Spencer groupie! > >Um, Barry, old buddy, I hate to mention this, but the specifications for >Henry Spencer groupies call for them to be young, female, and attractive, >and you don't meet any of those criteria... :-) :-) Um, Henry, wouldn't those be the specifications for a Henry Spencer GROPEE? A GROUPIE is a fan, a GROPEE is someone who is GROPED. One could presume you to be the GROPER, as opposed to the GROUPER, which is a fish ... And as for the .signature-of-the-month, the correct quote is "The meek shall inherit the Earth ... ... their the only ones who'll take it" -- John F. Haugh II (jfh@rpp386.Dallas.TX.US) HASA, "S" Division "Why waste negative entropy on comments, when you could use the same entropy to create bugs instead?" -- Steve Elias
gwyn@smoke.ARPA (Doug Gwyn ) (10/14/88)
In article <7835@rpp386.Dallas.TX.US> jfh@rpp386.Dallas.TX.US (The Beach Bum) writes: >A GROUPIE is a fan, a GROPEE is someone who is GROPED. One could presume you >to be the GROPER, as opposed to the GROUPER, which is a fish ... And for the ultimate word on grouper fish, listen to Jane Siberry's "Extra Executives" on the album "No Borders Here". This has nothing to do with UNIX wizardry but it's a nice album.
henry@utzoo.uucp (Henry Spencer) (10/22/88)
In article <7835@rpp386.Dallas.TX.US> jfh@rpp386.Dallas.TX.US (The Beach Bum) writes: >>... the specifications for >>Henry Spencer groupies call for them to be young, female, and attractive... > >Um, Henry, wouldn't those be the specifications for a Henry Spencer GROPEE? >A GROUPIE is a fan, a GROPEE is someone who is GROPED... No, the specifications just reflect a desire that groupies be pleasing to the male eye (specifically, to mine). I mean, Barry Shein is a nice guy, and useful to have around when technical problems strike, but I'm afraid he's not what I'd pick to decorate my office with! :-) The specifications for gropees are somewhat more exacting... :-) :-) -- The meek can have the Earth; | Henry Spencer at U of Toronto Zoology the rest of us have other plans.|uunet!attcan!utzoo!henry henry@zoo.toronto.edu