subbarao@phoenix.Princeton.EDU (Kartik Subbarao) (05/18/91)
In article <7601@segue.segue.com> jim@segue.segue.com (Jim Balter) writes: >without ever cracking a book on mathematics. (And some are going, Yeah, >what's wrong with that?") It might be better if programmers were given intense >analytical training before being let near a computer, with its instantly >gratifying feedback. Wait a sec. Exactly what are you trying to say here? Are you saying that programmers should study books on programming well before they type one in and see that it works? You just *can't* learn programming offline. It just things just don't work that way. What's wrong with instantly gratifying feedback? And what the hell does this have to do with tty security problems under SunOS 4.1 and SunOS 4.1.1? Oh wait, I know -- people shouldn't be let near ttys so they can't be the victims of that. I see..... -Kartik -- internet% ypwhich subbarao@phoenix.Princeton.EDU -| Internet kartik@silvertone.Princeton.EDU (NeXT mail) SUBBARAO@PUCC.BITNET - Bitnet
gwyn@smoke.brl.mil (Doug Gwyn) (05/20/91)
In article <azvI79R9b6Fv2@idunno.Princeton.EDU> subbarao@phoenix.Princeton.EDU (Kartik Subbarao) writes: -In article <7601@segue.segue.com> jim@segue.segue.com (Jim Balter) writes: ->[...] -Wait a sec. Exactly what are you trying to say here? Are you saying that -programmers should study books on programming well before they type one in -and see that it works? You just *can't* learn programming offline. ... No, he was saying that budding programmers should first be taught how to understand things, so they don't make mistakes like the one you just made..
jim@segue.segue.com (Jim Balter) (05/22/91)
In article <azvI79R9b6Fv2@idunno.Princeton.EDU> subbarao@phoenix.Princeton.EDU (Kartik Subbarao) writes: >In article <7601@segue.segue.com> jim@segue.segue.com (Jim Balter) writes: >>It might be better if programmers were given intense >>analytical training before being let near a computer, with its instantly >>gratifying feedback. > >Wait a sec. Exactly what are you trying to say here? Are you saying that >programmers should study books on programming well before they type one in >and see that it works? I'm talking analysis, and you jump right past that to technique. Many programmers spend most of their time "typing one in to see that it works" without analyzing the problem. This is penny wise and pound foolish and leads to high software costs. >You just *can't* learn programming offline. Learn any way you want, as long as it doesn't lead to actually carrying out programming tasks (I wasn't talking about how to learn programming; where did you get that idea?) by leaping into the code and trying every combination of keystrokes until one is found that appears to work (and leaving all the error cases, boundary conditions, race conditions, elimination of duplication and bad coupling, algorithmic sloth, etc. to others). You can certainly learn to *think* offline, and that is what I was talking about. Even in the limited area of programming technique, many programmers severely underutilitize their programming language, OS, and other tools because they have never thoroughly RTFM. Read the book first or read it as you work the exercises, but read it thoroughly if you want to be a master of your trade. >What's wrong with instantly gratifying feedback? It tends to devalue problem aspects that aren't immediately evident. >And what the hell does this have to do with tty security problems >under SunOS 4.1 and SunOS 4.1.1? My comments were side remarks in another context; you're the one who chose to turn this into a discussion. Perhaps you should have addressed that question to all the ad hominem ranting and raving that preceded it.