TANNERC@cu18.crl.aecl.ca (05/31/91)
Hi all I am investigating establishing a standard policy for deriving user names for UNIX systems at our site, and am a bit upset at the restriction that all UNIX systems (that I saw) have for the user name - 8 characters. VMS allows 15 (I believe, and Control Data's allows 31). I am wondering if there is any move in the UNIX area to change the allow length of the users login name from 8 to say 12. Thanks. Chris -- Chris Tanner Tannerc@CU18.CRL.AECL.CA AECL Research Chalk River Ont. Canada K0J 1J0
dcb@dave.mis.semi.harris.com (Dave Brillhart) (06/01/91)
At Harris, we finally decided to use the VMS standard of first initial last name (truncated to 8 characters). Kind of a pain :-( -- Dave Brillhart
imp@solbourne.com (Warner Losh) (06/01/91)
In article <1991May31.173152.791@mlb.semi.harris.com> dcb@dave.mis.semi.harris.com (Dave Brillhart) writes: >At Harris, we finally decided to use the VMS standard of first >initial last name (truncated to 8 characters). Kind of a pain :-( This is especially a *PAIN* when the system administrator sees "M. Warner Losh" and gives you the login "mlosh" and people send mail to "wlosh" since your name is Warner. Fee and a pox be on all ye that try to standarize login names. Warner -- Warner Losh imp@Solbourne.COM Free to a good home: 10,000 Miller Moths. Must promise not to breed them.
alek@spatial.com ( Alek O. Komarnitsky ) (06/01/91)
In article <1991May31.215301.7574@solbourne.com> imp@solbourne.com (Warner Losh) writes: >In article <1991May31.173152.791@mlb.semi.harris.com> >dcb@dave.mis.semi.harris.com (Dave Brillhart) writes: >>At Harris, we finally decided to use the VMS standard of first >>initial last name (truncated to 8 characters). Kind of a pain :-( > >This is especially a *PAIN* when the system administrator sees "M. >Warner Losh" and gives you the login "mlosh" and people send mail to >"wlosh" since your name is Warner. Fee and a pox be on all ye that >try to standarize login names. > >Warner Losh imp@Solbourne.COM >Free to a good home: 10,000 Miller Moths. Must promise not to breed them. Agreed that there is no easy way to standardize login names. aok, alek, alekk, akomarni, akomar, komar, might all work for me, and what if there are duplicates? Not too sure where imp comes from, but why not just add an E-mail alias of warner_losh and use that? Alek Komarnitsky 303-449-0649 Software Tools Manager, Spatial Technology, Inc. 2425 55th Street, Bldg A alek@spatial.com Boulder, CO 80301-5704 alek_komarnitsky@spatial.com PS. I too have 10,000 Miller Moths to give away :-( followups to boulder.general wizards might send more our way if we discuss username lengths too much :-)
tchrist@convex.COM (Tom Christiansen) (06/01/91)
From the keyboard of imp@solbourne.com (Warner Losh):
:In article <1991May31.173152.791@mlb.semi.harris.com>
:dcb@dave.mis.semi.harris.com (Dave Brillhart) writes:
:>At Harris, we finally decided to use the VMS standard of first
:>initial last name (truncated to 8 characters). Kind of a pain :-(
:
:This is especially a *PAIN* when the system administrator sees "M.
:Warner Losh" and gives you the login "mlosh" and people send mail to
:"wlosh" since your name is Warner. Fee and a pox be on all ye that
:try to standarize login names.
Most sendmail configurations will accept mail to firstname.lastname
or firstname_lastname instead of to that person's login. No fuzzy
logic involved, though: it has to match the gcos field exactly,
modulo case of course. Why not just tell people to do this? Finger
can also help to locate login names.
--tom
--
Tom Christiansen tchrist@convex.com convex!tchrist
"So much mail, so little time." mouse@thunder.mcrcim.mcgill.edu (der Mouse) (06/02/91)
In article <27070@adm.brl.mil>, TANNERC@cu18.crl.aecl.ca writes: > I am investigating establishing a standard policy for deriving user > names for UNIX systems at our site, and am a bit upset at the > restriction that all UNIX systems (that I saw) have for the user name > - 8 characters. Yes, this is a pain. > I am wondering if there is any move in the UNIX area to change the > allow length of the users login name from 8 to say 12. Not that I know of, not in general. Fortunately, it's not hard to do. I once asked someone at Waterloo, which uses usernames >8 chars on their UNIX machines, how they did it, and was informed that you just need to change a couple of include files (<utmp.h> comes to mind) and recompile everything. Oh, you don't have source? Then you've got problems. A good example of why binary distributions are evil. der Mouse old: mcgill-vision!mouse new: mouse@larry.mcrcim.mcgill.edu
gwyn@smoke.brl.mil (Doug Gwyn) (06/02/91)
In article <1991Jun1.194721.25383@thunder.mcrcim.mcgill.edu> mouse@thunder.mcrcim.mcgill.edu (der Mouse) writes: >Fortunately, it's not hard to do. I once asked someone at Waterloo, >which uses usernames >8 chars on their UNIX machines, how they did it, >and was informed that you just need to change a couple of include files >(<utmp.h> comes to mind) and recompile everything. >Oh, you don't have source? Then you've got problems. A good example >of why binary distributions are evil. For an example of why hacking the system interface is harmful, consider those applications that attempt to get usernames and provide only 8+1 characters of storage for them, because that was a known feature of the operating system implementation. Longer user names will break such programs, and no it is NOT practical to find them all and change them.
schwartz@groucho.cs.psu.edu (Scott Schwartz) (06/02/91)
mouse@thunder.mcrcim.mcgill.edu (der Mouse) writes: | Oh, you don't have source? Then you've got problems. A good example | of why binary distributions are evil. And even if you do have source, you can't always compile it and get a working system. :-( A good example of why proprietary systems with funny ideas about what a source licence means are evil.
bill@camco.Celestial.COM (Bill Campbell) (06/03/91)
In <1991Jun01.144752.22884@convex.com> tchrist@convex.COM (Tom Christiansen) writes: :From the keyboard of imp@solbourne.com (Warner Losh): ::In article <1991May31.173152.791@mlb.semi.harris.com> ::dcb@dave.mis.semi.harris.com (Dave Brillhart) writes: ::>At Harris, we finally decided to use the VMS standard of first ::>initial last name (truncated to 8 characters). Kind of a pain :-( :: ::This is especially a *PAIN* when the system administrator sees "M. ::Warner Losh" and gives you the login "mlosh" and people send mail to ::"wlosh" since your name is Warner. Fee and a pox be on all ye that ::try to standarize login names. :Most sendmail configurations will accept mail to firstname.lastname :or firstname_lastname instead of to that person's login. No fuzzy :logic involved, though: it has to match the gcos field exactly, :modulo case of course. Why not just tell people to do this? Finger :can also help to locate login names. :--tom :-- :Tom Christiansen tchrist@convex.com convex!tchrist : "So much mail, so little time." Smail 2.5 also provides full-name aliasing and includes a program that generates permutations of the full name including various combinations of inititials. You can send mail to me using: camco!Bill.Campbell camco!b.campbell camco!BILL.CAMPBELL Bill.Campbell@Celestial.COM .... Further if I were in the full name source as (\t is tab): camco!bill\tJ. William Campbell You could use: camco!j.w.campbell camco!w.campbell ..... Case is unimportant to smail aliases (spelling is). We use this extensively here maintaining the fullnames alias file from several databases. You can send mail to any current member of the Seattle Unix Group who is on the net using the address: camco!First_name.Last_name OR First_name.Last_name@Celestial.COM Bill -- INTERNET: bill@Celestial.COM Bill Campbell; Celestial Software UUCP: ...!thebes!camco!bill 6641 East Mercer Way uunet!camco!bill Mercer Island, WA 98040; (206) 947-5591
slootman@dri.nl (Paul Slootman) (06/03/91)
In article <16322@smoke.brl.mil> gwyn@smoke.brl.mil (Doug Gwyn) writes: >For an example of why hacking the system interface is harmful, consider >those applications that attempt to get usernames and provide only 8+1 >characters of storage for them, because that was a known feature of the >operating system implementation. Longer user names will break such >programs, and no it is NOT practical to find them all and change them. On at least the ICL System V.2 systems, who -q would output multiple entries for users who were logged in once, if there were people logged in with lognames of 8 characters. My guess is that exactly 8 bytes were reserved for the logname. While sorting the list of names (which who -q in that version System V did) I suppose something goes wrong... ICL said that it wasn't a bug, I should use lognames of max. 7 bytes, i.e. it was my fault. Paul. -- ---------------- :slootman@dri.nl : When you get to the point where you think that nothing :+ 31 5496 88831 : is impossible, try pushing toothpaste back into a tube ----------------
rsalz@bbn.com (Rich Salz) (06/05/91)
In article <1991Jun1.194721.25383@thunder.mcrcim.mcgill.edu> mouse@thunder.mcrcim.mcgill.edu (der Mouse) writes: >and was informed that you just need to change a couple of include files >(<utmp.h> comes to mind) and recompile everything. In <16322@smoke.brl.mil> gwyn@smoke.brl.mil (Doug Gwyn) writes: > consider >those applications that attempt to get usernames and provide only 8+1 >characters of storage for them Such programs are fairly badly written since the header file has warned about using "8" for some time and you can safely get the maximum allowable size by using sizeof. /r$ -- Please send comp.sources.unix-related mail to rsalz@uunet.uu.net. Use a domain-based address or give alternate paths, or you may lose out.
dylan@ibmpcug.co.uk (Matthew Farwell) (06/06/91)
In article <1991Jun01.144752.22884@convex.com> tchrist@convex.COM (Tom Christiansen) writes: >Most sendmail configurations will accept mail to firstname.lastname >or firstname_lastname instead of to that person's login. No fuzzy >logic involved, though: it has to match the gcos field exactly, >modulo case of course. Why not just tell people to do this? Finger >can also help to locate login names. A mail system I used to use (a home-grown mail system running on a Cyber 180 under NOS) used to (still does as far as I know) support full name type addresses, ie M.J.Farwell@wherever. If you sent to a wrong address, however, it sent back a list of fuzzy matches, ie N.K.Farjel or something like that. Now that was quite useful. Dylan. -- Matthew J Farwell: dylan@ibmpcug.co.uk || ...!uunet!ukc!ibmpcug!dylan But you're wrong Steve. You see, its only solitaire.
les@chinet.chi.il.us (Leslie Mikesell) (06/06/91)
In article <3614@litchi.bbn.com> rsalz@bbn.com (Rich Salz) writes: >> consider >>those applications that attempt to get usernames and provide only 8+1 >>characters of storage for them >Such programs are fairly badly written since the header file has >warned about using "8" for some time and you can safely get the maximum >allowable size by using sizeof. Well, you can consider SysVr3's /bin/mail to be fairly badly written, then. If you use login names >8 characters, mail that matches the first 8 characters of a login name is accepted and up to 14 characters of the mail address is used for the filename in /usr/mail. If there was a mismatch beyond the first 8 characters, the user won't be able to find or retrieve it. Les Mikesell les@chinet.chi.il.us
mouse@thunder.mcrcim.mcgill.edu (der Mouse) (06/06/91)
In article <16322@smoke.brl.mil>, gwyn@smoke.brl.mil (Doug Gwyn) writes: > In article <1991Jun1.194721.25383@thunder.mcrcim.mcgill.edu> mouse@thunder.mcrcim.mcgill.edu (der Mouse) writes: >> Fortunately, it's not hard to do. I once asked someone at Waterloo, >> which uses usernames >8 chars on their UNIX machines, how they did >> it, and was informed that you just need to change a couple of >> include files (<utmp.h> comes to mind) and recompile everything. > For an example of why hacking the system interface is harmful, > consider those applications that attempt to get usernames and provide > only 8+1 characters of storage for them, because that was a known > feature of the operating system implementation. Such programs are broken as written. From <utmp.h>, SunOS 4.1: /* @(#)utmp.h 1.8 88/08/19 SMI; from UCB 4.2 83/05/22 */ [...] /* * Structure of utmp and wtmp files. * * XXX - Assuming the number 8 is unwise. */ struct utmp { char ut_line[8]; /* tty name */ char ut_name[8]; /* user id */ char ut_host[16]; /* host name, if remote */ long ut_time; /* time on */ }; (Presumably assuming the number 16 is OK :-) Our mtXinu 4.3+NFS system is the same, except it is missing the XXX. Its ID string is * @(#)utmp.h 5.1 (Berkeley) 5/30/85 > Longer user names will break such programs, and no it is NOT > practical to find them all and change them. Changing int to 32 bits will break programs that assume int is 16 bits - and there are lots of them, and it is NOT practical to find them all and change them. ...uh, oh yeah, that was a few years ago. Funny, but it seems to have happened anyway. (I take a rather hard line towards programs that depend on not-promised things, particularly in the face of explicit warnings against doing so, and most especially when a trivial better way (sizeof in this case) is available.) der Mouse old: mcgill-vision!mouse new: mouse@larry.mcrcim.mcgill.edu
mouse@thunder.mcrcim.mcgill.edu (der Mouse) (06/11/91)
In article <1991Jun05.235228.4667@chinet.chi.il.us>, les@chinet.chi.il.us (Leslie Mikesell) writes: > In article <3614@litchi.bbn.com> rsalz@bbn.com (Rich Salz) writes: [an attribution line seems to have been lost here] >>> consider those applications that attempt to get usernames and >>> provide only 8+1 characters of storage for them >> Such programs are fairly badly written since the header file has >> warned about using "8" for some time and you can safely get the >> maximum allowable size by using sizeof. > Well, you can consider SysVr3's /bin/mail to be fairly badly written, > then. Fine. > If you use login names >8 characters, mail that matches the first 8 > characters of a login name is accepted and up to 14 characters of the > mail address is used for the filename in /usr/mail. Okay, so it's broken. So what? A good reason to use something else instead, something to which you have source. Just because brokenness is in a widespread program doesn't make it any less broken. der Mouse old: mcgill-vision!mouse new: mouse@larry.mcrcim.mcgill.edu