ajm@k.cc.purdue.edu (Dan Farmer) (12/14/87)
I have never seen any programs posted to the network that are gaming aids for Dungeons and Dragons or other role playing games. Such things as random npc generators, combat assistants, handy-dandy spell information databases, weather simulators, ect. Surely someone has written some??. So could someone save me from typing in lots of code and data, and either post something or mail me some valuble information on where I might buy (shudder) something of this nature? And speaking of posting, would it be illegal to post, say for instance, the combat charts, spell lists, monster stats or whatever, for D&D/rolemaster/GURPS/ect, if they were part of a public domain game? thanks in advance,
ajm@k.cc.purdue.edu (Dan Farmer) (12/14/87)
my .signature got chopped off, sorry: -- dan farmer (ajm@k.cc.purdue.edu)
bulko@ut-sally.UUCP (Bill Bulko) (12/15/87)
In article <2305@k.cc.purdue.edu> ajm@k.cc.purdue.edu (Dan Farmer) writes: > >I have never seen any programs posted to the network that are gaming aids >for Dungeons and Dragons or other role playing games. Such things as >random npc generators, combat assistants, handy-dandy spell information >databases, weather simulators, ect. Surely someone has written some??. A friend and I were talking about this recently. You would think there'd be a pretty good demand for something like this. I can certainly imagine our DM (hello, Greg) sitting at the table, feet propped up, terminal in front of him where only he can see it, and keyboard on his lap. (1) The program could contain random number generators to replace dice rolls. With a silent keyboard, it would be harder for players to tell when the DM is doing something covert. (2) The DM could easily keep track of all the players' statistics; I kind of like the window styles used in Wizardry for the Macintosh. (Sort of spreadsheetish.) (3) Combat assistants *would* be nice. You wouldn't have to think about the numbers if the program could simply take two arguments FIGHTER1, FIGHTER2 and return "hit" or "miss". [Or even "critical hit", but that's another discussion. :-) ] (4) Random NPC generators would be nice, too. Any other ideas for this nice DM program? Anyone interested in WRITING one? Bill _______________________________________________________________________________ Artificial Intelligence: the art of making computers that behave like the ones in movies Bill Bulko The University of Texas bulko@sally.UTEXAS.EDU Department of Computer Sciences _______________________________________________________________________________
ugcuddih@sunybcs.uucp (Elisabeth Cuddihy) (12/15/87)
I have seen ads for a few different DM helper programs but I have no idea how good they are. Most that I have seen were for AD&D. I have been thinking about writing one for quite a while (it would just seem to make my life as a GM 1000 times easier !!) but I never really knew what would be worth while to put into such a program. I always pictured it as a huge data-base that would hold all of the current info/stats for that night's game thus eliminating stacks of books (and prying eyes trying to remember which items are on the page of whatever book I seem to be turned to...). I also figured that the program should keep a current list of all the characters stats and what ever else is of importance on their character sheets. I think I'd rather leave the dice rolling to the hands of the players (and my hands too) but as for keeping track of time and weather, I'd much rather have a computer do it. Hm... I can even see the entire area of adventure mapped out with descriptions, etc... WELL -- I think I am going to start thinking more seriously about this.. (yes, maybe I will write one during my winter break) Please let me (us) know if any of you have seen a program like this in use (did it run smoothly with the game?) or if you have any other ideas that could fit into a GM helper. oh yes.. When I finally commit these ideas to C (probably Turbo C for an IMB xt... oh wow...) it will fit in more closely to the GURPS system but, most likely, it will be as generic as possible thus making it usable for any system (well.. ok.. almost any system). Liz Cuddihy... in the land of dark clouds but no snow Elisabeth Cuddihy --- SUNY @ Buffalo Computer Science undergraduate Internet: ugcuddih@cs.Buffalo.EDU Bitnet: ugcuddih@sunybcs.BITNET
gabai@sabbath.rutgers.edu (Gabai) (12/15/87)
I don't have the time to actually do it, but I could give lots of advice to someone. Either that or clone me. I'd love to write a full scale DM aid, maybe even an AI unit to handle intelligent combat(hmm maybe the thesis topic I've been looking for). One of my GM's has a computer on line, for things like pictures, maps, speeches, and yes: pc/npc records that get modified by combat and such. For a Christmas present, we may update it some more. -- Yours etc., Steven D. Gabai gabai@nadc.arpa gabai@paul.rutgers.edu
flaig@cit-vlsi.Caltech.Edu (Charles M. Flaig) (12/15/87)
In article <2305@k.cc.purdue.edu> ajm@k.cc.purdue.edu (Dan Farmer) writes: > >I have never seen any programs posted to the network that are gaming aids >for Dungeons and Dragons or other role playing games. Such things as >random npc generators, combat assistants, handy-dandy spell information >databases, weather simulators, ect. Surely someone has written some??. I have thought about this in the past, and have even made some abortive attempts at code, but have always gotten bogged down in the user interface. Even with single keystroke commands or a good mouse interface, the more you put into a program the less likely it is to be faster than doing it by hand, mainly because of the limitation on how much you can put on the screen at once. I can easily flip my books open to the correct page for common things, and can have several sources of infomation spread in front of me (rather than having to flip through multiple screens). For less common things, all that is needed is a good index, and if you are going to make your own, why not just type it up and attach it to your book? (And make it available to others :-) As I see it, several possibilities remain, each with drawbacks: 1) Dice rolling - Probably not faster or easier, but it _IS_ more secretive, and harder to lose on the floor. But why use a bulky computer? A programmable calculator will do in a pinch, and any hobbyist could build an electronic dice roller (and some are on the market). 2) NPC generation - Probably okay if you need simple NPCs, and don't worry about the total character making sense. Definitely a bad idea for key NPCs. But don't most people have tables for these sorts of random, meaningless NPCs? And ususally if you have simple NPCs they appear in groups, in which case it is much nicer to have hardcopy spread in front of you during the game so you can watch all of them at once.... 3) Weather simulation, etc. - But I do all of these things on purpose if they are meaningful, otherwise a whim suffices as well as true randomness. If you want to remove any bias on the part of the GM (I can't imagine why, since this limits his options) there might be a little more incentive for this sort of thing. 4) Map displays - These can look very nice, but I see no advantage over having them on paper, especially if you want to see large areas or compare several maps at once. If you are worried about losing or damaging maps, maybe you just need to invest in good folders and cover sheets. I don't really mean to discourage you from trying, I just wanted to point out the results of my own past attempts at this sort of thing. While computers are very useful for relatively simple (ie. mechanical) solitare games, most FRP games require a large variety of support, so the parallel format of spreading sheets and books across a desk seems much more usable than the (relatively) cramped serial form of a CRT display. --Charles Flaig flaig@cit-vlsi.caltech.edu
fla7@sphinx.uchicago.edu (Titus Darkling) (12/15/87)
The biggest problem with these type of programs is that they are VERY user-specific. I have written one, but it contains very little of what you ask for, but instead all of my own pet peeves- combat tables, die rolling, etc. why go on when you've nothing left to say? Titus -- Kilroy Pain !ihnp4!gargoyle!sphinx!fla7 Watch out Mr. Businessman, the red bomb's about to blow. I think you'd better listen, man, in case you did not know... I'm an urban... urban guerrilla!!
jam@philabs.Philips.Com (John A. Murphy) (12/16/87)
I in no way want to discourage anyone from tring this but I ran into several problems with this. A PC is figured to be better becuase few people have mainframes at home. Some of the problems I ran into were: How much information do you store? You can't store everything you would like to. It somehow is easier to organize on paper. How much information do you display? The screen gets very small all of a sudden. Menus work but make play tedious. Players do not like computer interference because the DM must sit there and concentrate while looking at the screen and typing to get the appropriate screen or bit of info. Something as simple as a dice program leaves much to be entered. How many dice, what type, do you want it to automatically subtract hit points from someone you're swinging at? If a characters stats change or they loose some equipment are you going to make a note of it? I worked on this program with my sister on and off for a year and we did a fair job of dealing with these questions but it still was not very playable. Things often times happen too rapidly fto keep banging on the keyboard. Where you put the actual computer and keyboard is also a hassle. Is it important that the players not see the screen? Non-game time programs like NPC, whether, or town generators I found to be a great assistance but the only game time program I ever found playable was one that me and the players could both look at and all it showed was game time. Hit the space bar for a minute, h for an hour, etc. It would also roll all the dice in the world if I felt like entering it but time was the most useful. I would also like to see what non-game time programs people have written. Murf -- jam@philabs.uucp
Nightstalker@cup.portal.com (12/16/87)
Dan: If you're using a MacIntosh computer, then there is a programs in the Utilities section called "Master's Familiar". It's a pretty good program that is intended as a DM's aide, helping in map construction, character rosters, keeping track of time, monster encounters, etc.. Nightstalker
Michael_Allen_King@cup.portal.com (12/16/87)
I uploaded a program called Master's Familiar to the Utilities section of the Phoenix Mac Sig's library. It's designed primarily for AD&D, but can be adapted to other games. It's a program to help DM's keep track of things. If you have access to GEnie, there's a program there called The Creator. It's a Traveller character generator, and the author is providing for improvement. Michael King
gabai@steppenwolf.rutgers.edu (Gabai) (12/17/87)
If anyone is interested, one time I wrote up a simple little
10-line program:
its purpose: instead of time-driven random encounter rolls
it made event-driven random encounter rolls
ex) 1/6 chance of encounter, every 4 hours for 15 days !!
that's ninety die rolls! (egads)
thus I applied some formula (if you are interested,
there's more:
Amount_of_time_until_next_encounter
:= std_time_check * ln(1 - rnd(0..1))/ln(1 - std_prob_check)
so what, I lied about the program being 10 lines(it was on a pgm.
calc.)
ex) t = (1/6 day) * ln (1-.12345678)/ln(1-1/6)
~ 50 minutes
t = (1/6 day) * ln (1-.99)/ln(1-1/6)
~ 1 day (or larger)
just make sure:
- you have appropriate real number capabities,
- rnd(0..1) returns a random real number,
with uniform distribution, in the range [0..1),
cannot equal 1.000000... (should be obvious: ln(1-1)=undefined)
this makes it easier, with a time program running in background:
party: "we post guards at night, during a long journey"
computer: <boink> encounter at 3:45 during 3rd watch"
(much hacking/slashing or sneaking/hiding/BSing later)
computer: <boink (or whatever)>, 3 days later, at sunrise,
just before the mountain pass.
etc.
--
Yours etc.,
Steven D. Gabai
gabai@nadc.arpa
gabai@paul.rutgers.edugabai@steppenwolf.rutgers.edu (Gabai) (12/17/87)
To Liz Cuddihy and anyone else trying to program a GM-aid: I don't have the time to do one myself, but I could suggest ideas on implementing them. To others: Keep requests coming in, on what might be useful We'll need them as well. I have a Math/CompSci background, and lots of gaming experience. Currently attending Rutgers graduate school. -- Yours etc., Steven D. Gabai gabai@nadc.arpa gabai@paul.rutgers.edu
rk9005@cca.ucsf.edu (Roland McGrath) (12/17/87)
Can everyone please send their ideas (as specific as possible) as regards the interface, design, etc. of a gaming-aid of whatever sort, probably a fairly flexible, general program not locked into any one gaming system, to me at roland@lbl-rtsg.arpa? If anybody actually does this, I will post a summary, and eventually try to write such a beast that most people out there will really find useful. Thanks, folks. -- Roland McGrath UUCP: ...!ucbvax!lbl-rtsg.arpa!roland ARPA: roland@lbl-rtsg.arpa
Elric@tsc3b21.UUCP (Frank ) (12/17/87)
in article <4897@cit-vax.Caltech.Edu>, flaig@cit-vlsi.Caltech.Edu (Charles M. Flaig) says: > > [ some deleted comments...] > > As I see it, several possibilities remain, each with drawbacks: > > 1) Dice rolling - Probably not faster or easier, but it _IS_ more > secretive, and harder to lose on the floor... > > 2) NPC generation - Probably okay if you need simple NPCs, and don't > worry about the total character making sense. Definitely a bad > idea for key NPCs... > > 3) Weather simulation, etc. - But I do all of these things on purpose > if they are meaningful, otherwise a whim suffices as well as true > randomness. > > 4) Map displays - These can look very nice, but I see no advantage > over having them on paper, especially if you want to see large > areas or compare several maps at once. > > I don't really mean to discourage you from trying, I just wanted to > point out the results of my own past attempts at this sort of thing. > While computers are very useful for relatively simple (ie. mechanical) > solitare games, most FRP games require a large variety of support, so > the parallel format of spreading sheets and books across a desk seems > much more usable than the (relatively) cramped serial form of a CRT > display. > > --Charles Flaig I agree. And I have attempted some code at various times as my enthuasm reaches its peek ;-). The points mentioned above are good ones, however: 1. The computer is good at inventory of miscellaneous items that (some) GM's must keep track of. My code was set for AD&D and so I planned on maintaining charges on wands, elapsed time on rings which expire after a certain amount of time, etc. 2. As in #1, I also used the inventory mechanism to record where individual items of importance were located. For instance, if 2 out of 3 objects are needed to gain some objective, the program was to track where the objects were. (A real pain, even for the computer, when the object was in the possession of another band of NPC adventurers...) 3. I had not put this in my code (yet), but I considered a random dungeon generator for quickie games which would last only an hour or two. (Actually the code for the random dungeon works, but the map drawing was "unimplemented".) 4. Combat is always tedious, and so 6 formulas and 6 lines of initialized data takes care of the combat tables (excellent also for my TI-59 calculator). But I'd like to see an efficient method of handling the incidentals -- "you're hit by Falferd and your potion ... [the dice rolls and the result is ... 15 out of 20] ... is destroyed!" Does anyone see other good applications? I agree with those few postings of people that have written some code in this area, since most of them will recognize the shortcomings. Not enough data can be displayed at once with a standard 24x80 screen, which results in too many keystrokes to get where you want; clumsy handling of large inventories like those of a mage; difficulty tracking game time (unless this could be automated some how-- so that combat inquiries log time, but what other time consuming ventures?). "Use the Source, Luke. Feel it flow through your fingertips..." ----- Frank (crash) Edwards ...!codas!usfvax2!{pdn,jc3b21}!tsc3b21!crash TSC in Palm Harbor, FL The Sweat Shop [with a 'C'] Phone: (813) 785-0583 (voice)
dan@cisunx.UUCP (Daniel E Eikenberry) (12/17/87)
In article <2028@cup.portal.com> Michael_Allen_King@cup.portal.com writes: > > I uploaded a program called Master's Familiar to the Utilities section >of the Phoenix Mac Sig's library. It's designed primarily for AD&D, >but can be adapted to other games. It's a program to help DM's >keep track of things. How about posting that program to the net, for those of us you do not have access to Phoenix. especially those of us who dont know what phoenix is! -- Dan "Belgarion" Eikenberry ZETS ZETS!!!!!!!!!!!! University of Pitsburgh Computing and Information Systems Software Technician E-MAIL : dan@cisunx.UUCP US-MAIL: 319 n neville, apt 3 BITNET: dan@pittvms pittsburgh, pa 15213
jim@coplex.UUCP (Jim Sewell) (12/18/87)
I and my gaming pals have often discussed a network of perhaps model 100's
to be used during the game. The purpose would be to pass info back and forth
without the hassel of scribbled notes and/or others finding out what they
shouldn't. Consider:
Player> I search the body.
DM> You find 30 gp and this <passing note>
The other players invariably inherit bad feelings toward the player if he/she
does not produce some amazing magic item for them, where in the "real-fantasy
world" they might not even know of that "something else" written on the note.
The interface would pass all info from player 1 to player 2 thru DM because
the DM must know everything said between characters. Other than that, any
message sent to a person is seen only by that person.
"How do you kill a dragon?" "I hire someone else to do it!"
Jim Sewelljim@coplex.UUCP (Jim Sewell) (12/21/87)
In article <220@tsc3b21.UUCP>, Elric@tsc3b21.UUCP (Frank ) writes: > > Does anyone see other good applications? I agree with those few postings > of people that have written some code in this area, since most of them will > recognize the shortcomings. Not enough data can be displayed at once with > a standard 24x80 screen, which results in too many keystrokes to get where > you want; clumsy handling of large inventories like those of a mage; > difficulty tracking game time (unless this could be automated some how-- > so that combat inquiries log time, but what other time consuming ventures?). 1. Another application is to solve a problem I have found in games I've been in. Namely that of real time being VERY different from game time. Many times before I have seen the DM spring a trap and the player waste several minutes deciding what to do and ask seemingly hundreds of questions. This could be solved by the DM entering a time interval, announcing what happened, hitting a key, answering any questions the player has that are appropriate to answer, and asking for a response before a sound emits forth from the computer indicating it is too late to play around. DM: (types 10 and says) You hear a click!" PLAYER: "Uhm, are there holes in the ceiling?" DM: "Yes, several spaced evenly across the hallway." PLAYER: "I uh, uhm, well, I..." COMPUTER: "BEEP" DM: "Sorry, you were under the portcullis and didn't move fast enough. You're dead, Jim." 2. Pop-up(?) calendar which has a dual function. First, it serves as a marker of the game date (include ability to veer from the norm of 12 mths/yr, etc.). Second, it is a reminder/diary service allowing you to keep track of things that are going to happen a week from now (like a call lightning spell finally going off ;-) and to keep track of that which has already happened. Several gaming friends of mine keep diaries as player and DM to avoid "discussions" about what has happened in the past. Any more? Let those who want to write the programs know BEFORE they start so they can plan well! Good luck guys! Jim Sewell "Make knowledge free!"
linhart@gauss.rutgers.edu (D-ro 3) (12/22/87)
I've written a really nifty character roller for Paranoia 2.0, but
it's rather MSDOS-specific. It keeps a continual roster of the
character on the screen, so you don't have to delve thru lots of
menus. As a further waste of energy, it uses pretty, colorful pop-up
windows often color coordinated to security clearance. It's not
nearly fully-featured, but it can take care of the most tedious tasks.
If anyone is interested, let me know.
--
"Science does not remove the terror of the gods." | Steve Linhart
-- J.R. "Bob" Dobbs | linhart@gauss.rutgers.edu
"One man's theology is another man's belly laugh." | Matrix 1:107/513
-- Lazarus Long | 201-878-0937flaig@cit-vlsi.Caltech.Edu (Charles M. Flaig) (01/07/88)
In article <153@coplex.UUCP> jim@coplex.UUCP (Jim Sewell) writes: > >1. Another application is to solve a problem I've found in games I've been in. > Namely that of real time being VERY different from game time. Many times > before I have seen the DM spring a trap and the player waste several minutes > deciding what to do and ask seemingly hundreds of questions. This could be > solved by the DM entering a time interval, announcing what happened, hitting > a key, answering any questions the player has that are appropriate to answer > and asking for a response before a sound emits forth from the computer > indicating it is too late to play around. > DM: (types 10 and says) You hear a click!" > PLAYER: "Uhm, are there holes in the ceiling?" > DM: "Yes, several spaced evenly across the hallway." > PLAYER: "I uh, uhm, well, I..." > COMPUTER: "BEEP" > DM: "Sorry, you were under the portcullis and didn't move fast enough. > You're dead, Jim." While I agree that the DM should limit unreasonable amounts of discussion in an action situation by making sure that game time advances regardless, I think that such a strict method is unreasonable. In the quoted example it takes much less time to look at the ceiling and see holes than it does for the player and GM to share this information. Visual descriptions are especially difficult to convey, and are impossible to describe in the short period of time it would actually take the characters to look the situation over. I think game time should be enforced for discussion between characters (which corresponds exactly to real time), time spent digging through a pack to find a useful item (GM's discretion), and time spent deciding on an action once the scene is fully presented to the player (the "I uh, uhm, well, I..." stage in the example quoted above). But even for these cases I would hate to use an external timer to limit player response time, since this time usually involves a combination of all of the above interactions. Also remember that an alert barbarian (for example) can jump onto a rock and swing his sword to cut through a rope in much less time than the player can react simply because the player does not have the same reflexes as the barbarian, let alone the time required to describe the action to the GM. To keep things simple and reasonable, I usually don't worry too much about matching game time with real time in the games I run unless it becomes obvious that the players (implying the characters) are spending much too much time in thought or discussion, and even then I will give them a warning (since the characters would probably realize how much time is passing). --Charles Flaig flaig@cit-vax.caltech.edu