thornton@ssc-vax.UUCP (Ken Thornton) (06/23/87)
Someone in rec.video recently mentioned that Sony had come out with
a consumer-grade video deck and camera system which could record
single frames. Hence, this would be ideal for those graphics buffs
who wish to make computer-movies a frame at a time.
I just called my local Sony distributor and he didn't have any
information to give me on this product (model 110).
Does anyone know more about this product? I'm looking for specs,
cost, ordering info, the works.
I have never used a single-frame VTR. Does anyone out there have
experience in these matters that they would share?
Ken
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/ / /\/ \ Ken Thornton {decvax,ihnp4}!uw-beaver!ssc-vax!ssc-bee!thornton
/ / / \ \ronc@cerebus.UUCP (sysadm) (06/24/87)
In article <846@ssc-bee.ssc-vax.UUCP> thornton@ssc-vax.UUCP (Ken Thornton) writes: >Someone in rec.video recently mentioned that Sony had come out with >a consumer-grade video deck and camera system which could record >single frames. Hence, this would be ideal for those graphics buffs >who wish to make computer-movies a frame at a time. > >I just called my local Sony distributor and he didn't have any >information to give me on this product (model 110). Believe it or not, Macy's sells this animal. According to their ad, it does not record single frame. Rather, it records in 8 frame bursts and can be set to record one burst per 30 seconds. (I don't know if this is "up to 30 seconds", or "30 or longer", it just said "30 seconds". I'm going to check the camera stores in this area on the possibility of renting one. If I get my hands on one, I'll tell the net. It occurs to me that an eight frame burst is actually a better idea than single frame recording as it provides much more redundancy per "frame", and probably averages the noise caused by starting and stopping the tape over several frames. On another note, a friend of mine is in the market for a semi-professional video camera system. He wants flying erase heads, wide bandwidth, good editing capability, but insists on VHS. (Poor guy.) I said I didn't think there was such an animal, except maybe this Super-VHS everyone's talking about that's supposed to come out soon. Not having the slightest interest in VHS, and being somewhat cautious about "S-VHS" after JVC pawned off a bandwidth DECREASE as "High Quality", (Gawd, I'd like to hire their marketing department!) I didn't pay much attention to press releases and netnews articles on this product. Any rumors on a VHS editing deck, or is that even *possible* given the kludgy transport mechanism? Ron -- Ronald O. Christian (Fujitsu America Inc., San Jose, Calif.) seismo!amdahl!cerebus!ronc "Down, boy" "Woof"
larson@sri-unix.ARPA (Alan Larson) (06/25/87)
In article <180@cerebus.UUCP>, ronc@cerebus.UUCP (sysadm) writes: > Not having the slightest interest in VHS, and being somewhat cautious > about "S-VHS" after JVC pawned off a bandwidth DECREASE as "High Quality", > (Gawd, I'd like to hire their marketing department!) I didn't pay much > attention to press releases and netnews articles on this product. Any > rumors on a VHS editing deck, or is that even *possible* given the kludgy > transport mechanism? It looks like you have little experience with VHS. Have you ever taken one apart and looked inside? The transport mechanism is beautifully simple. There should be no trouble with building such a machine for editing. (I still would not want to recommend editing on a 1/2 inch machine.) Why do you claim that HQ is a bandwidth decrease? While I would agree that the increase in bandwidth is miniscule, if any, there is nothing I have seen to indicate that there is a decrease in bandwidth. As for marketing departments, they seem almost identical with Sony. Both sides of the VHS-C vs 8mm advertising looks more like a political smear campaign. No information, just lots of dis-information. Alan
dowdy@apple.UUCP (Tom Dowdy) (06/25/87)
In article <180@cerebus.UUCP> ronc@cerebus.UUCP (sysadm) writes: >Believe it or not, Macy's sells this animal. According to their >ad, it does not record single frame. Rather, it records in 8 frame >bursts and can be set to record one burst per 30 seconds. (I >don't know if this is "up to 30 seconds", or "30 or longer", it >just said "30 seconds". > >It occurs to me that an eight frame burst is actually a better idea >than single frame recording as it provides much more redundancy per >"frame", and probably averages the noise caused by starting and stopping >the tape over several frames. Actually, an 8 frame burst would probably be perfectly acceptable for what most people in this group have in mind: computer animation. This assumes, of course, that noise is minimal. After recording your 8 frame bursts, you could then see the results of the animation (abit slow tho, and jerky) and after you were happy with it, could redub it using a borrowed/rented tape editor... (too expensive to buy, but very fun to play with, we used one to take a copy of Madonna's "Papa Don't Preach" video and redub it 1 frame --> 30 frames, revealing the fact that during one of her dance sequences her top falls down for about 3 frames) Tom Dowdy CSNET: dowdy@apple.CSNET Apple Computer MS:27Y AppleLink:DOWDY1 20525 Mariani Ave UUCP: {sun,voder,amdahl,decwrl}!apple!dowdy Cupertino, CA 95014 "Plus ca change, Plus c'est la meme chose."
philm@astroatc.UUCP (Phil Mason) (06/26/87)
In article <180@cerebus.UUCP> ronc@cerebus.UUCP (sysadm) writes: >It occurs to me that an eight frame burst is actually a better idea >than single frame recording as it provides much more redundancy per >"frame", and probably averages the noise caused by starting and stopping >the tape over several frames. If eight identical frames is the smallest unit you can write on the tape, you get an effective 7.5 frames per second - not very impressive unless you can run the tape at somewhere between 4 and 8 times the recording burst speed. If the deck will record a burst of eight non-identical frames and you are trying to use the deck as output for normal speed computer animation, even if your computer can sequence the desired images at the video output fast enough, you will run into the severe sychronization problem of getting your computer to run eight frames of pictures AT SPEED into the recorder in SYNC. I am not saying that it can't be done, but the 30 second wait is the real killer if you want to make sequences of any length quickly. I guess if you lick the synchronization problem, the speed of any graphics software running out there is slower than 3 and 3/4 seconds a frame (taking into account the speed of recording and the 30 second wait). The deck must have some kind of 'burst record sync' output in order to be useful at all. -- Kirk : Bones ? | Phil Mason, Astronautics Technology Center Bones : He's dead Jim. | Madison, Wisconsin - "Eat Cheese or Die!" ...seismo-uwvax-astroatc!philm | I would really like to believe that my ...ihnp4-nicmad/ | employer shares all my opinions, but . . .
sgf@nancy ( _/**/Sam_Fulcomer ) (06/26/87)
I believe that they do exist (I'm trying to find one to buy; I just started
looking yesterday). Panasonic Industrial is one possibility for a supplier.
Their AG-1950 (~$900 discounted) is an "editing" machine, but I haven't
discovered whether it actually records single frames. An editing controller
AG-A95 is also available for ~300 (discounted).
Anybody out there know of any others?
sam
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UUCP {ihnp4,allegra,decvax,princeton}!brunix!kiutpiety@hplabsb.UUCP (Bob Piety) (07/01/87)
The Sony CCD-V110 does 8-Frame recording. In otherwords, any animation you try will be jerky, since 8-frames translates to about 1/4 second. Bob
hedley@cbmvax.UUCP (Hedley Davis) (07/02/87)
In article <4195@hplabsb.UUCP> piety@hplabsb.UUCP (Bob Piety) writes: >The Sony CCD-V110 does 8-Frame recording. In otherwords, any animation you >try will be jerky, since 8-frames translates to about 1/4 second. > >Bob But does it provide some sort of signal indicating exactly which eight frames it is recording ? ( So that one could buffer eight frames of video at a time, and record all eight in a burst ? ) Hedley
roy@phri.UUCP (Roy Smith) (07/03/87)
Not really consumer grade, but Sony makes an MVR-5500 still video
recorder. It records 25 frames or 50 fields on a video floppy disk, with
random access. Composite and RGB in/out. Not cheap (under $3400).
Presumably you use this to record a bunch of frames then copy them all to a
Umatic recorder (with edit controller) in one shot. Probably get the whole
schmear for under $15k.
I'm not really a video freak, but a friend of mine who works in the
industry recommends Discount Video Warehouse (800-323-8148) as a good place
for this kind of stuff. Then again, he doesn't bat an eyelash at the
thought of $15k of equipment just to make video tapes.
--
Roy Smith, {allegra,cmcl2,philabs}!phri!roy
System Administrator, Public Health Research Institute
455 First Avenue, New York, NY 10016crds@ncoast.UUCP (Who Am I) (07/06/87)
There is a Panasonic recorder that does single frame recording. The model is the AG-6050. It is used in surveliance systems, and may or may not be available to the general public (I am still checking). The OEM price is about $2600.00, and I will be looking for more info on how to get one. It is possible that I may be able to purchase them, but NO promises! Glenn A. Emelko (614) 263-7118 Call me, or reply to crds@ncoast.UUCP
perkins@bnrmtv.UUCP (Henry Perkins) (07/08/87)
In article <339@astroatc.UUCP>, philm@astroatc.UUCP (Phil Mason) writes: > If eight identical frames is the smallest unit you can write on the > tape, you get an effective 7.5 frames per second - not very impressive That should be 3.75 frames per second; NTSC provides 30 frames per second, as alternating (even/odd scan lines) half-frames each 1/60th of a second long. -- {hplabs,amdahl,3comvax}!bnrmtv!perkins --Henry Perkins It is better never to have been born. But who among us has such luck? One in a million, perhaps.