seifert@ihuxl.UUCP (D.A. Seifert) (05/01/84)
{adding net.med to the newsgroup list}
> Refined sugar is good for you. No one has ever died from it.
> In fact people who have a high amount of refined sugar in
> their diet live longer. Natural sugar contains insecticides
> and microorganisms which are harmful.
If you would kindly read the books referenced at the end of this
article, you will find references to people that *have* died from
sugar, and that groups of people using refined sugar have higher
incidence rates of many diseases than groups not using refined
sugar. I would be most interested in reading about these "insecticides
and microorganisms which are harmful" which you imply are present
in *all* sources of natural sugar. References please?
> Here's what I DO know, having read it in a couple of places
> recently. Since I can't quote the sources, I suggest that you
> not believe me completely, and research the subject yourselves.
I *have* researched the subject myself, and have seen nothing
to back up your claims. Please provide references.
> Also, don't feed honey to babies because it contains
> something related to botulism (either the spores or the toxin -
> as I said, I don't remember completely. Look it up.)
Maybe it does, maybe it doesn't. Look it up where?
> (Please don't insult my intelligence by using the above
> words against me by saying that I have made a statement without
> quoting references. Instead, use this as an example of how
> to present information when you are unsure of its source,
> but have reason to believe that it is factual.)
>
> Scott Orshan
Gee, why not, Scott? You've just insulted *our* intelligence
by flaming about my not quoting references (although if you
would have *read* the article I did suggest reading the literature)
and then proceed to do the exact same thing yourself! And then
you try and claim that you're above your own rule! I would have
liked to provide a list of references at the time, but my terminal
is at the office and my references are at home. Anyway,
here they are, these books should be available (in paperback, even!)
at most bookstores and/or health food stores. They are written
by MDs, but aimed at the lay public, so I think most people on the
net should be able to understand them.
150 years ago, we ingested 2 lbs/year/person of sugar. Today
we ingest 100-120 lbs/year/person. That's an *average*, folks! [1] [2]
"...persons who ingest 160 pounds of sugar or more per year
have sixteen times the chance at each age of developing
coronary heart disease than those who ingest 60 pounds per
year or less." [1]
"Sugar provides nearly 25% of the calories in a typical diet." [2]
"...contributing to obesity, causing dental caries, causing
high blood pressure, raising serum triglycerides and cholestrol,
decreasing longevity, and being a factor in allergies, kidney
disease, and carbohydrate intolerance." [2]
" [in Poland] The sugar intake quadrupled and the death rate
quadrupled. [ over a ten-year period ]
In Yugoslavia, exactly the same thing occured. The use of
saturated fat went down more than any other country, but the sugar
intake went up almost three to one, directly correlated with a
threefold increase in the death rate." [2]
"...sugar shortens the life-span of animals by one-fourth;
reduces growth rate; increases deposition of fat; and increases
the concentration in the blood of cholesterol, triglycerides,
insulin, corticosteroid, and cortisol. It reduces glucose
tolerance and so produces diabetes; it increases the size
of the liver and kidneys and causes changes in their cells;
it causes gallstones, causes dental decay, and produces
atherosclerosis. It produces disturbed actions of blood platelets
and blood clotting; increases acidity of gastric juice; causes
a vitamin B deficit; and causes blindness, kidney failure,
and sterility by producing thickened blocked capillaries serving
vital organs." [2]
[1] _V_i_t_a_m_i_n _C, _t_h_e _C_o_m_m_o_n _C_o_l_d _a_n_d _t_h_e _F_l_u
Linus Pauling (Nobel Prize winner) (MD?)
[2] _D_o_c_t_o_r _A_t_k_i_n_'_s _S_u_p_e_r_e_n_e_r_g_y _D_i_e_t
Robert C. Atkins, MD
Shirley Linde
[3] _D_o_c_t_o_r _A_t_k_i_n_'_s _N_u_t_r_i_t_i_o_n _B_r_e_a_k_t_h_r_o_u_g_h
Robert C. Atkins, MD
[4] _N_u_t_r_i_t_i_o_n _A_l_m_a_n_a_c
Nutrition Search, inc.
[5] _D_i_e_t & _N_u_t_r_i_t_i_o_n, _a _h_o_l_i_s_t_i_c _a_p_p_r_o_a_c_h
Rudolph Ballentine, MD
[6] _H_y_p_o_g_l_y_c_e_m_i_a: _T_h_e _D_i_s_e_a_s_e _y_o_u_r _D_o_c_t_o_r _w_o_n_'_t _t_r_e_a_t
Jeraldine Saunders
Harvey M. Ross, MD
Well, Scott, I believe this places the ball in your court.
--
_____
/_____\ That auto-crossing beagle,
/_______\ Snoopy
|___| BMWCCA, Windy City Chapter
____|___|_____ ihnp4!ihuxl!seifertgnome@olivee.UUCP (Gary Traveis) (05/02/84)
I would like to say that (as of a month ago) the center for disease control issued a report stating that 10% of all honey on the shelves contains a low level form of botulism. This information was repeated on all three networks' news. I don't care to get into an argument but think that it is a piece of info worth checking into.
edhall@randvax.UUCP (05/03/84)
+ I thought Dr. Atkin's diet had been denounced as dangerous by the AMA... I'd certainly not take his word on the effects of refined sugar, especially when his promotion of a high-fat, high-protein diet flies in the face of so much research on heart disease (from fats) and intestinal cancer (from both fats and protein). (Admittedly there is a fair amount of dispute over the latter, but the fats/heart disease link is about as strong as the cigarette/cancer link.) Now, I'm no fan of refined sugar. I avoid it when I can. It certainly has an effect in terms of tooth decay and possibly other dental problems. And it may well have other harmful effects on health. But a 4X increase in death rate? Just a little bit of thought would show that this is absurd. I haven't heard of the Polish population shrinking that drastically. And what ties this increase in with sugar, anyway? Why not cigarettes? If Dr Atkins chooses his numbers right, he can include a lot of World-War-II casulties in his death rate (and this is the only way I can think of to account for a quadrupling). I'd rather you find references from people who don't have a vested interest in a point of view, and ones which give the results of well- defined studies with effective controls. Scott's report on the dangers of honey for babies seems to be correct. Science News recently had an article on it. It seems that some honey contains spores for a type of botulism. The spores are usually killed in the digestive tract, but some young babies (6 months or younger) haven't developed this ability yet. The results can be serious, even fatal. This isn't a problem for us older folks, though. Don't believe everything you read. I prefer no references to bad ones. Especially when I agree with the point of view. :-) -Ed Hall decvax!randvax!edhall