elt@entire.UUCP (Edward L. Taychert) (11/16/88)
So my boss comes up to me and says "What do you know about SQML and CAL?" Nothing. He says they're some kind of graphics or printer description languages. Can any one out there point me to some info? Thanks. -- ____________________________________________________________________________ Ed Taychert Phone: USA (716) 381-7500 Entire Inc. UUCP: rochester!rocksanne!entire!elt 445 E. Commercial Street East Rochester, N.Y. 14445 _____________________________________________________________________________
andrea@hp-sdd.HP.COM (Andrea K. Frankel) (11/17/88)
In article <3270@entire.UUCP> elt@entire.UUCP (Edward L. Taychert) writes: >So my boss comes up to me and says "What do you know about SQML and CAL?" >Nothing. He says they're some kind of graphics or printer description >languages. Can any one out there point me to some info? >Thanks. I wonder if you got the acronyms right. Isn't SQML a data base language? There is an ISO standard SGML (Standard Graphics Markup Language) which isn't exactly a printer description level, but a metalanguage in which one can describe many different kinds of output languages. You can buy SGML from ANSI in New York. There is a DOD initiative called CALS (Computer Aided Logistics Support, or something like that), which is an attempt to break the electronic gridlock in transmitting data between diverse government offices, contractors, and subcontractors. They are mostly specifying the use of existing standards in standardized ways (that's not redundant, if you understand how standards are written! ;@). For example, they specify the use of CGM for vector graphics, IGES for product data specifications, and CCITT Group 3 & 4 facsimile for raster images. I believe all of these standards can also be bought from ANSI. Hope this helps. Andrea Frankel, Hewlett-Packard (San Diego Division) (619) 592-4664 "...I brought you a paddle for your favorite canoe." ______________________________________________________________________________ UUCP : {hplabs|nosc|hpfcla|ucsd}!hp-sdd!andrea Internet : andrea%hp-sdd@hp-sde.sde.hp.com (or @nosc.mil, @ucsd.edu) CSNET : andrea%hp-sdd@hplabs.csnet USnail : 16399 W. Bernardo Drive, San Diego CA 92127-1899 USA
ken@cs.rochester.edu (Ken Yap) (11/17/88)
|There is an ISO standard SGML (Standard Graphics Markup Language) which |isn't exactly a printer description level, but a metalanguage in which |one can describe many different kinds of output languages. You can buy |SGML from ANSI in New York. Er, isn't this Standard Generalized Markup Language? As I understand, it is a system for defining conventions to be used for the transmission of marked-up documents. For instance, a tag like <q> can be defined to mean "start of quoted text". It is not a typesetting language. A SGML document can be turned into formatter input via a translator. SGML definitions are intended to be at a higher level of abstraction than formatter directives. I shouldn't say more because I'm not an expert. The experts are on comp.text.
andrea@hp-sdd.HP.COM (Andrea K. Frankel) (11/19/88)
In article <1988Nov16.234857.2372@cs.rochester.edu> ken@cs.rochester.edu (Ken Yap) writes: >|There is an ISO standard SGML (Standard Graphics Markup Language) which >|isn't exactly a printer description level, but a metalanguage in which >|one can describe many different kinds of output languages. You can buy >|SGML from ANSI in New York. > >Er, isn't this Standard Generalized Markup Language? As I understand, >it is a system for defining conventions to be used for the transmission >of marked-up documents. For instance, a tag like <q> can be defined to >mean "start of quoted text". It is not a typesetting language. A SGML >document can be turned into formatter input via a translator. SGML >definitions are intended to be at a higher level of abstraction than >formatter directives. > >I shouldn't say more because I'm not an expert. The experts are on >comp.text. You're absolutely right! I was trying to retrieve the acronym from memory, and ended up generating an approximation algorithmically when I couldn't find an exact bit match ;@) ;@) ;@) My understanding is that there are simultaneously two types of organization in SGML - logical and layout. The former allows you to specify things like sections, chapters, subsections and so forth that pertain to the logical structure of the contents. The layout talks about how text flows onto the page, what a paragraph looks like, what kinds of things you do at start of section/chapter/etc. Taken together, you can transmit in SGML a pretty detailed description of your document and how you want it to look, at which point the recipient can translate it to troff, PostScript, or whatever language the typesetter uses. BTW, my colloquial use of the prefix "meta" in "metalanguage" was meant to imply that SGML is at a higher level of abstraction, and is in fact a language in which one can describe what typesetter languages do in terms of abstract functionality. Apparently SGML is catching on at corporate-level communications departments, where it is being used to standardize electronic sharing of documentation and also to standardize the "style sheets" if you will. It seems to be mentioned more frequently by Europeans than Americans, although I don't have any real data on relative availability of implementations. At any rate, the SGML folks I've talked to are confident that SGML documents can be translated into just about anything that has enough positioning control and the right fonts, so it doesn't appear to be a standard that graphics folks need to worry much about (yet?). Andrea Frankel, Hewlett-Packard (San Diego Division) (619) 592-4664 "...I brought you a paddle for your favorite canoe." ______________________________________________________________________________ UUCP : {hplabs|nosc|hpfcla|ucsd}!hp-sdd!andrea Internet : andrea%hp-sdd@hp-sde.sde.hp.com (or @nosc.mil, @ucsd.edu) CSNET : andrea%hp-sdd@hplabs.csnet USnail : 16399 W. Bernardo Drive, San Diego CA 92127-1899 USA
les@trigraph.UUCP (Les Gondor) (11/26/88)
In article <1679@hp-sdd.HP.COM> andrea@hp-sdd.UUCP (Andrea K. Frankel) writes: >In article <1988Nov16.234857.2372@cs.rochester.edu> ken@cs.rochester.edu (Ken Yap) writes: >:|There is an ISO standard SGML (Standard Graphics Markup Language) which >:|isn't exactly a printer description level, but a metalanguage in which >:|one can describe many different kinds of output languages. You can buy >:|SGML from ANSI in New York. >: >:Er, isn't this Standard Generalized Markup Language? As I understand, >:it is a system for defining conventions to be used for the transmission >:of marked-up documents. For instance, a tag like <q> can be defined to >:mean "start of quoted text". It is not a typesetting language. A SGML >:document can be turned into formatter input via a translator. SGML >:definitions are intended to be at a higher level of abstraction than >:formatter directives. >: >:I shouldn't say more because I'm not an expert. The experts are on >:comp.text. > >My understanding is that there are simultaneously two types of organization >in SGML - logical and layout. The former allows you to specify things like >sections, chapters, subsections and so forth that pertain to the logical >structure of the contents. The layout talks about how text flows onto >the page, what a paragraph looks like, what kinds of things you do at >start of section/chapter/etc. Taken together, you can transmit in SGML >a pretty detailed description of your document and how you want it to look, >at which point the recipient can translate it to troff, PostScript, or >whatever language the typesetter uses. Er, not really. SGML deliberately avoids layout issues and concentrates instead on how one describes a syntax for 'marking up' the logical structure of a document. It says what logical entities (and what are their associated markup tags) can appear at a given point in the document and what attributes are associated with the tags. It is only when an external entity associates layout actions with those logical tags that one can talk about layout, but that is outside the intended scope of activity of an SGML parser. In the ideal world, the document markup would be purely structural, as opposed to being concerned with the layout or formatting and SGML goes a long way to enforcing this separation of form from content. The association of layout design with the logical structure of a document is the subject of another ISO standard going by the acronym DSSSL (Document Style, Semantics and Specification Language). I have yet to see the working draft of this standard, but it is coded in SGML (presumably, agreed-upon attribute names are used to describe the layout). I speculate that one can then link tags defined in the logical document description to those defined separately in the style and then go on to lay out the document. A related standard is ISO 8613, Office Document Architecture, which does define a transmission standard for multi-media documents that incorporates both logical and layout information in the same stream. Part of this standard defines an SGML encoding of this stream. >... It seems to be mentioned more frequently by Europeans than >Americans, although I don't have any real data on relative availability >of implementations. SOBEMAP, Datalogics and SoftQuad all sell commercial implementations of SGML applications. NBS through the NTIS provides source for an SGML parser. E-mail me if you want more info. > >At any rate, the SGML folks I've talked to are confident that SGML >documents can be translated into just about anything that has enough >positioning control and the right fonts, so it doesn't appear to be a >standard that graphics folks need to worry much about (yet?). > >Andrea Frankel, Hewlett-Packard (San Diego Division) (619) 592-4664 >Internet : andrea%hp-sdd@hp-sde.sde.hp.com (or @nosc.mil, @ucsd.edu) There appears to be at least one paper on graphics and SGML, although the reference I have indicates that it is in preparation: "An SGML Application for Graphics", C. O'Connell, S.A. Mamrak, R. Parent (to appear in CG&A). -- Les Gondor, Trigraph Inc. "Why not just do it by knife?" {uunet!ai.toronto.edu!utcsri, decvax!utzoo}!trigraph!les DOMAIN: lgondor@csri.toronto.edu