eugene@eos.UUCP (Eugene Miya) (01/21/89)
In article <844@auvax.UUCP> kevinc@auvax.UUCP (Kevin "auric" Crocker) writes: >I would love this stuff, but alas do not have ftp currently available. >Why does all the neat stuff always have to be ftp'able and not other >things too - maybe we should join a few more networks. When I was running the ACM/SIGGRAPH local group in the SF Bay Area, I wrote a little article in our newsletter about this. Specialists tend to get really wrapped up too closely with their fields so it has been with graphics people and other parts of computer science. If your view of computer graphics is hand on pointing device, then you are potentially like this. Good networks are an essential part of computing now. DARPA had some foresight early on (people like Sutherland [yes, the same one who did Sketchpad {what!}]) to fund research in packet switching networks. It's much more than having eye catching email addresses on your business card. FTP is another resource. There's about half a dozen other applications protocols (including old proposals for graphics protocols. You have to make some efforts to improve the quality of computing in your environment. If you don't have what-ever-mapped graphics terminals (or workstations), that's your loss. Think of all those people in other news groups with just ASCII (or EBCDIC) terminals! If you don't have access to networks, that's your loss, too. (I was really lucky to learn about FTP in 1973). The structure of your world affects the way you think about it. (I think parts of IBM are just learning about graphics ;-). Don't waste time trying to convert people (unless that's your job), better to let the "competition" wallow. Just like those Mac ads. Before you ask for a copy of our little local group's article, I was asked by Rick Beach (editor, ACM Computer Graphics) for filler material on this topic (as well as scientific visualization commentary). So I have to get some time to write it. When ever that will be.... Another gross generalization from --eugene miya, NASA Ames Research Center, eugene@aurora.arc.nasa.gov resident cynic at the Rock of Ages Home for Retired Hackers: "Mailers?! HA!", "If my mail does not reach you, please accept my apology." {uunet,hplabs,ncar,decwrl,allegra,tektronix}!ames!aurora!eugene "Send mail, avoid follow-ups. If enough, I'll summarize."
david@torsqnt.UUCP (David Haynes) (01/23/89)
In article <2398@eos.UUCP: eugene@eos.UUCP (Eugene Miya) writes: :In article <844@auvax.UUCP> kevinc@auvax.UUCP (Kevin "auric" Crocker) writes: :>I would love this stuff, but alas do not have ftp currently available. :>Why does all the neat stuff always have to be ftp'able and not other :>things too - maybe we should join a few more networks. : :Good networks are an essential part of computing now. DARPA had some foresight :early on (people like Sutherland [yes, the same one who did Sketchpad {what!}]) :to fund research in packet switching networks. It's much more than having :eye catching email addresses on your business card. FTP is another resource. :There's about half a dozen other applications protocols (including :old proposals for graphics protocols. : :You have to make some efforts to improve the quality of computing in :your environment. FLAME ON Well, this is all very fine and dandy, but what do you do if the good old US of A will not let you on the network! Up until about the middle last year, you could not access ARPA from Canada without being actively involved in some Defense related industry and project AND you could show that you needed to be on the network. I find Mr. Miya arogance just a little too much to take! Really! Unless we all have the lastest and greatest, we are children to be patronized by the GODS of high tech. REALLY! FLAME OFF If you don't have :access to networks, that's your loss, too. (I was really lucky to learn :about FTP in 1973). FLAME ON And if you don't like it, you should all go back to Russia where people like you belong? Knowing about ftp (yes I knew about it then too doesn't mean I could get ACCESS to it!) FLAME OFF : The structure of your world affects the way you think :about it. (I think parts of IBM are just learning about graphics ;-). The assumptions you make affect it also. Please try to look beyond your navel into the real world. :--eugene miya, NASA Ames Research Center, eugene@aurora.arc.nasa.gov -david- "Kind of makes you want to spit!" --- Evil Roy Slade
arr@mentor.cc.purdue.edu (Steve Cutchin) (01/23/89)
In article <27@torsqnt.UUCP>, david@torsqnt.UUCP (David Haynes) writes: > :You have to make some efforts to improve the quality of computing in > :your environment. > FLAME ON > Well, this is all very fine and dandy, but what do you do if the good > old US of A will not let you on the network! Uhh, let me guess you bitch and moan when someone suggests you improve your situation? Sounds like a mature response to me. > -david- > "Kind of makes you want to spit!" --- Evil Roy Slade ^-------------------------------Yep sure does. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Steve Cutchin arr@mentor.cc.purdue.edu mentor.cc.purdue.edu!arr
eugene@eos.UUCP (Eugene Miya) (01/24/89)
Well, I apologize to the net if you think I sound too arrogant.
Myself, I am tired of arrogant (obviously not you) over-specialized
graphics people, but that's another story.
Seriously, if you are in a foreign country, GRAPHICS people can
be responsible for developing and motivating the development of
high-speed wide-area networks with heterogeneous powerful computers.
Only graphics are capable of easy reaching a non-computing audience.
There is no reason why even an undergrad student could not rally the
resources to do this. Before you say, I am just one student,
or one faculty member, or what ever, I remind you this business is
replete with individuals who have done just this degree of change.
You should demand high performance communication services from your
government or industy. Installing network access should be an undergrad
requirement. Building a network might take a bit more.
Most recently 3rd world countries like Indonesia have been visiting
to get an understanding of communications requirements. Anyway, this
is diverging from graphics, flames should be sent by mail, apologies
should obviously be broadcast.
Welcome to the 21st century.
Another gross generalization from
--eugene miya, NASA Ames Research Center, eugene@aurora.arc.nasa.gov
resident cynic at the Rock of Ages Home for Retired Hackers:
"Mailers?! HA!", "If my mail does not reach you, please accept my apology."
{uunet,hplabs,ncar,decwrl,allegra,tektronix}!ames!aurora!eugene
"Post follow ups. Contribute to network noise."trainor@julia.math.ucla.edu (Douglas J. Trainor) (01/25/89)
david@torsqnt.UUCP (David Haynes) writes: >[...] >Well, this is all very fine and dandy, but what do you do if the good >old US of A will not let you on the network! Up until about the middle >last year, you could not access ARPA from Canada without being actively >involved in some Defense related industry and project AND you could >show that you needed to be on the network. > >I find Mr. Miya arogance just a little too much to take! Really! > >FLAME OFF I believe your assertion is false. Although the ARPANET is "soley for the conduct of, or in support of, official U.S. government business", if you had around $100,000.000 (in U.S. Federal Reserve Notes) you could buy onto CSNET, and do lotsa nifty things. Now, back to graphics! Does anyone have a bibliography for anything close to "computer generated art"? If so, I'd be interested in hearing from you in e-mail! douglas [][] trainor@cs.ucla.edu [][] ...!{randvax,rutgers,sch-loki,ucbvax}!ucla-cs!trainor
childers@avsd.UUCP (Richard Childers) (01/28/89)
In article <27@torsqnt.UUCP> david@torsqnt.UUCP (David Haynes) writes: >In article <2398@eos.UUCP: eugene@eos.UUCP (Eugene Miya) writes: >:In article <844@auvax.UUCP> kevinc@auvax.UUCP (Kevin "auric" Crocker) writes: >:>I would love this stuff, but alas do not have ftp currently available. >:>Why does all the neat stuff always have to be ftp'able and not other >:>things too - maybe we should join a few more networks. >:Good networks are an essential part of computing now ... FTP is another >:resource. >:You have to make some efforts to improve the quality of computing in >:your environment. >FLAME ON >Well, this is all very fine and dandy, but what do you do if the good >old US of A will not let you on the network! Yes, well, that applied to everyone, Americans as well as Canadians. Still does, in some respects, at least in the documents I read. They were a little vague ... >I find Mr. Miya arogance just a little too much to take! Really! If you knew him, you'd know he's not very arrogant. ( I don't him, but I've been reading his postings for a few years, now ... ) >Unless we all have the lastest and greatest, we are children to >be patronized by the GODS of high tech. REALLY! I don't think he ever said that. All he said was it was a great resource. It is. I'm not working at an Internet site, either, but I'm working at it. If you want the official materials, I'll be glad to mail them to you, or you can mail to SRI-NIC yourself, I'll dig out the address. I think I read it in a 4.3 BSD/Mt Xinu manual, but it was a 4.3 document associated with networking, probably the 'named' documents. >The assumptions you make affect it also. Please try to look beyond your >navel into the real world. I have often found that I demand of others what I myself lack. Could this be a case in hand of such behavior ? ( I hear it's quite common ... :-) I must admit, it is rather frustrating getting information about the way to connect to the ARPAnet out of people. The details are hidden in manuals, nobody wants to mention a thing, 'if you're not a TCP/IP programmer you're not worth talking to' kind of attitude. The value of figuring it out is all well and good, and I appreciate an element of evolution in all this, but it's been made unnecessarily mysterious exactly HOW one gains access to this much-vaunted 'anonymous ftp' connection ... >:--eugene miya, NASA Ames Research Center, eugene@aurora.arc.nasa.gov >-david- -- richard -- * -= If it works, it must be a Fluke =- * * * * ..{amdahl|decwrl|octopus|pyramid|ucbvax}!avsd.UUCP!childers@tycho * * AMPEX Corporation - Audio-Visual Systems Division, R & D *