eugene@eos.UUCP (Eugene Miya) (04/13/89)
I started a minor discussion and about Optical Character Reading (OCR)
(this is a "graphic" function for all you synthetic image generators).
Let me start another another interesting topic. I will explain my agenda
at the end. It's a case of technology meets society (or work).
We have Seiko color printers. Fine, you can discuss is if you like,
but recently there has been an increase in the number of ads for color
copier ("Xerox (tm)"). It's much cheaper to use a color copier than
"waste" you color printers. Well, we got a Canon. Nothing wrong with the
Canon. I'm impressed. Nice machine thus far.
My experience with color copiers began when I used one at work (JPL)
at the time for a grad school project. I copied a geolgic map (B&W
just can't cut it). The process on any machine is a little slow
(3-4 passes) but the quality has increased (for the price as well)
in leaps and bounds from the first Xerox copier.
Now, with all this wonderful technology comes some MAJOR headaches.
Back when, I read (and know) that there are several major problems
with color (and regular) copiers.
The first problem was with bill changers. Now you might not be aware of it,
but there are very critical standards (set of Xerox, IBM, Kodak, etc.) to
prevent things like a person copying money, then sticking the copy into
a bill changer: the copy is made just slightly larger or smaller, etc.
The advent of color complicates the problem even more, because the
discriminant you are trying to fool might be human.
Several years ago, I moved from JPL to NASA Ames. Ames is (was) backward
in some ways. A turf situation existed at Ames (until a month ago)
because it never had a color copier (the copier people had never
encountered computer graphics ;) (image synthesis) before). We my org.
broke thru.
Now the difference between Ames and JPL is that Ames shares land
with a Navy and Air Force base. Not just any: their planes fly in the
Gulf of Oman or their satellites spy on the SU. Not us. So there is
supposed to be some security here because we share the land
(there are a few classified and sensitive projects like any large
bureacracy [I will neither confirm nor deny this]).
So the other day, I was working on this color copier, trying to figure
out how to use it [really fun, it is an image processing system]
when my branch chief and our security people come in. We had, and copied,
a little blue and white visitor badge. Except for the specific number
(stamped on at the last moment), the copy was near perfect. Well, the
white background was a little blue. I just changed the contrast
setting. The guy got more depressed. It was closer to real life.
That's not the half. They have badges for visitors with classified
discussions. There are red versions of the blue badge. We didn't
have one of these to try, but then we didn't have to, we had a copier,
I just turned the blue to red. The fellow got even more depressed.
We then took a regular picture ID badge. Need I say more?
Remember that one of the tests for color copying is money, greens are
specifically supposed to be toned down to prevent counterfitting.
Now if you do this "test" remember you are doing something which is
technically illegal. Now there are also technological countermeasures:
holography and picture ids are current popular defenses, but each can be
fooled.
LLNL, LANL, DOE, DOD, Sandia, AFWL, BRL, NSA?
Are you guys reading this?
I don't think the problem is unique to us. I don't think most
sites have color copiers yet, but I know places like H-P, etc.
have them. The problem will grow. It might not affect you
immediately, but then, neither does counterfit money (be it physical
or electronic).
The problem is like the Turing test. Can you discriminate?
This problem is sort of like bordering on why the Soviet Union
controls copiers the way it does. Will the West meet half way?
We don't want them to take our color copier away from us. The problem
isn't ours, its society's. Bureacracies (like NASA's) would take OUR
copier away because of EXTERNAL threats.
Think about it. Art did. Not from the standpoint of bureacracies, not from
the perspective of banning them (it's too late, most are Japanese anyway),
but from the point that this technology can adversely affect your life even
with all its benefits. I want to keep the benefits.
Another tough nut to crack from
--eugene miya, NASA Ames Research Center, eugene@aurora.arc.nasa.gov
resident cynic at the Rock of Ages Home for Retired Hackers:
"Mailers?! HA!", "If my mail does not reach you, please accept my apology."
Live free or die.
"Hey, I got a time machine! What am I saying? I'll just...."keithd@gryphon.COM (Keith Doyle) (04/23/89)
In article <3177@eos.UUCP> eugene@eos.UUCP (Eugene Miya) writes: >This problem is sort of like bordering on why the Soviet Union >controls copiers the way it does. Will the West meet half way? >We don't want them to take our color copier away from us. The problem >isn't ours, its society's. Bureacracies (like NASA's) would take OUR >copier away because of EXTERNAL threats. No, all it means is that money, ID badges, and whatever else must remain secure from color-xeroxing, must go holographic. (At least until the color holo-copiers arrive :-). It may mean that $1 bills are going to get more expensive to print. Keith Doyle keithd@gryphon.COM gryphon!keithd gryphon!keithd@elroy.jpl.nasa.gov
keithd@gryphon.COM (Keith Doyle) (04/23/89)
In article <15020@gryphon.COM> keithd@gryphon.COM (Keith Doyle) writes: >No, all it means is that money, ID badges, and whatever else must >remain secure from color-xeroxing, must go holographic. (At least >until the color holo-copiers arrive :-). It may mean that >$1 bills are going to get more expensive to print. Oh yeah, and it also means a lot of bill changers are going to be scrapped. Keith Doyle keithd@gryphon.COM gryphon!keithd gryphon!keithd@elroy.jpl.nasa.gov
eugene@eos.UUCP (Eugene Miya) (04/24/89)
Xerox is a trademark of Xerox Corporation, is a trademark of ..... In article <15021@gryphon.COM> keithd@gryphon.COM (Keith Doyle) writes: >Oh yeah, and it also means a lot of bill changers are going to be >scrapped. Actually there are standards in the proportions and coloring of both money and color copies to attempt to prevent this. It is possible duplicate bills (money) in these copiers, but you are bordering on counterfitting (a felony), but the microprocessor color balancing is a challenge to the standard. There are non-net companies who make electronic money examiners for places like the Treasury, and they are guarded just as heavily. In fact maybe we can get a Bay Area ACM/SIGGRAPH tour of the SF Mint. I've had several interesting discussion since the original posting of this. Thanks to all of your who sent mail. I should note our badges have holograms on them, and our S folk have copied them (really not that hard). Other electronic and photographic means are just added layers of "armor" to be penetrated. Back to the technical aspects of copiers, the counterfitting problem is one problem. Other problems include stability and resolution of things like pure black and white portions of images (like text), gray scale (copying pages with a slight tint can cause ugly color Moires, but a button adjustment can tone down that tail of grays, part of the image processing features), jutxa-position of certain colors (toner quailty), and the usual spatial things. Are B&W copiers going to be things of the past? Not yet, but more processor power will probably make single pass (and higher speed) systems (expensive at first). Longish signature follows "Type 'n' now" Another gross generalization from --eugene miya, NASA Ames Research Center, eugene@aurora.arc.nasa.gov resident cynic at the Rock of Ages Home for Retired Hackers: "You trust the `reply' command with all those different mailers out there?" "If my mail does not reach you, please accept my apology." {ncar,decwrl,hplabs,uunet}!ames!eugene Live free or die.
cdshaw@alberta.UUCP (Chris Shaw) (04/25/89)
In article <15020@gryphon.COM> keithd@gryphon.COM (Keith Doyle) writes: >money, ID badges, and whatever else must >remain secure from color-xeroxing, must go holographic. (At least >until the color holo-copiers arrive :-). It may mean that >$1 bills are going to get more expensive to print. Well... more like $100 bills are going to get more expensive. $1 bills aren't worth it. Another technique is to do what the Europeans do & have a clear spot on the bill which exposes a distinctive watermark on the paper. I don't imagine that a colour photocopier can duplicate that, unless it's some sort of projection system. Also, plain paper is out, no matter what. The availability of cheap processing power in just about everything is going to radically change how we live, anyway. >Keith Doyle -- Chris Shaw cdshaw@alberta.UUCP (or via watmath or ubc-vision) University of Alberta CatchPhrase: Bogus as HELL !