kaufman@polya.Stanford.EDU (Marc T. Kaufman) (05/09/89)
A few weeks back, there was a posting about the Japanese HDTV standard, which had pixels 4% higher than they were wide. I mentioned this to a member of the US standards committee, and found (to my dismay) that he was unaware of the problem. Would someone please mail me a copy of that article, and a copy of the suggested fix which provided square pixels. I will forward them to the committee member. Marc Kaufman (kaufman@polya.stanford.edu)
jwi@lzfme.att.com (Jim Winer @ AT&T, Middletown, NJ) (05/10/89)
In article <9052@polya.Stanford.EDU>, kaufman@polya.Stanford.EDU (Marc T. Kaufman) writes: > A few weeks back, there was a posting about the Japanese HDTV standard, which > had pixels 4% higher than they were wide. I mentioned this to a member of > the US standards committee, and found (to my dismay) that he was unaware of > the problem. Would someone please mail me a copy of that article, and a > copy of the suggested fix which provided square pixels. I will forward them > to the committee member. > > Marc Kaufman (kaufman@polya.stanford.edu) I have difficulty e-mailing outside AT&T, so I am posting the original headings that may allow you to contact the author. If no one else sends the memos (3) to you, I can repost them but not e-mail them. Jim Winer ..!lzfme!jwi I believe in absolute freedom of the press. Pax Probiscus! Please do not email anything that requires a response outside AT&T. I receive email okay, but can rarely send a reply sucessfully. The opinions expressed here are not necessarily Those persons who advocate censorship offend my religion. -----------------------end end end--------------------------------------------- >Charles A. Poynton <poynton@sun.COM> >Sun Microsystems, Inc. >89/03/09 11:33 > >From mtuxo!att!rutgers!apple!oliveb!sun!vector!poynton Fri Mar 10 17:26:49 1989 >Path: lzfme!mtuxo!att!rutgers!apple!oliveb!sun!vector!poynton >From: poynton@vector.Sun.COM (Charles Poynton) >Newsgroups: comp.graphics,rec.video,comp.windows.news,comp.windows.x,sci.electronics >Subject: HDTV--High Definition Television (a plea) >Message-ID: <93427@sun.uucp> >Date: 10 Mar 89 22:26:49 GMT >Sender: news@sun.uucp >Lines: 213 This posting is followed by two separately-posted documents, TN21 and TN28 (both of whose Subject: lines begin 'HDTV--'). This is a plea for contributions which could convince the HDTV standards community to adopt square pixels for 1125-line HDTV. The current proposal calls for pixels that are 4% narrower than they are high. This fact is of little significance for traditional television but I believe it would severely limit the appeal of the standard to commercial, industrial, scientific, and medical applications, and in particular to computer graphics. ----- HDTV STANDARDIZATION -- NAMES AND ADDRESSES SMPTE COMMITTEES Richard J. Stumpf, Chairman SMPTE WHGDEP Vice-President R&D, Universal Studios 100 Universal Plaza Universal City, CA 91608 818-777-3198 Hugo Gaggioni, Chairman SMPTE AHG-DR1125, Sony Advanced Systems 1600 Queen Anne Road Teaneck, NJ 07666 201-833-5715, fax 201-833-9321 Keith Field, Chairman SMPTE AHG-HDSS C.B.C. Engineering Headquarters 7925 Cote St. Luc Road Montreal, Quebec H4W 1R5 Canada 514-485-5570 SMPTE HEADQUARTERS Stanley N. Baron, SMPTE Engineering Vice-President NBC 30 Rockefeller Plaza (1600W) New York, NY 10112 212-664-7557 Barry C. Detwiler, Television Engineer SMPTE 595 West Hartsdale Avenue White Plains, NY 10607 914-761-1100, fax 914-761-3115 Sherwin H. Becker, Director of Engineering SMPTE, 595 West Hartsdale Avenue White Plains, NY 10607 914-761-1100, fax 914-761-3115 CCIR STUDY GROUPS Bernard L. Dickens, Chairman USNSG-11 C.B.S 555 West 57th Street New York, NY 10019 212-975-2003 Ken P. Davies, Chairman CNSG-11 C.B.C. Engineering Headquarters 7925 Cote St. Luc Road Montreal Quebec H4W 1R5 Canada 514-485-5474 ATSC Dr. Robert Hopkins, Executive Director A.T.S.C 1771 N Street N.W. Washington, DC 20036 202-429-5345 -----
phil@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu (05/12/89)
Of the 1125 scanned lines in the Japanese HDTV standard, how many of them are actually displayed? It would be nice if this number is at least 1024 for computer applications. I understand the aspect ratio is 3:2 so if we can get square pixels, we can have 1536 pixels horizontally, maybe.
phil@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu (05/12/89)
One good reason that the television industry should seriously consider making the pixels square is that it will help keep the costs of computer based video imaging system down. If the US standard is non-square, then ordinary computer imaging systems will deviate from the HDTV standard, requiring specially designed systems just for the broadcast/video media. That will mean their costs will be higher. If the US standard is square, then it would be relatively simple for most computer imaging systems to generate correct video sync, and most probably would. That will open up so many systems for use in video imaging. I look forward to a nice HDTV standard that can be uniform across television and video media as well as computer systems in most application areas. The committee that is deciding the standard seems to be stacked in favor of the television broadcasting (including cable and video media). We need to impress upon them that they COULD make a standard that can be uniform across both uses. Computer graphics needs are relatively simple compared to all the needs of the television industry. There is no reason they cannot do it. Write to the committe. Write to the FCC. Write to your congressperson. Tell them we want a SINGLE HDTV STANDARD for both television and computers. --phil howard--
billd@celerity.UUCP (Bill Davidson) (05/14/89)
In article <5300005@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu> phil@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu writes: }The committee that is deciding the standard seems to be stacked in favor of }the television broadcasting (including cable and video media). We need to }impress upon them that they COULD make a standard that can be uniform across }both uses. Computer graphics needs are relatively simple compared to all }the needs of the television industry. There is no reason they cannot do it. }Write to the committe. Write to the FCC. Write to your congressperson. }Tell them we want a SINGLE HDTV STANDARD for both television and computers. Does anyone out there know how to write to this committee? How about the apropriate branch of the FCC? This would make thins easier for a lot of people who care about this. Bill Davidson ...!{ucsd,sdsu,fpssun,cogen,chip,photon}!celerity!billd
sparks@corpane.UUCP (John Sparks) (05/19/89)
<295@celit.UUCP> Sender: Reply-To: sparks@corpane.UUCP (John Sparks) Followup-To: Distribution: Organization: Corpane Industries, Inc. Keywords: In article <5300005@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu> phil@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu writes: >}The committee that is deciding the standard seems to be stacked in favor of >}the television broadcasting (including cable and video media). We need to >}impress upon them that they COULD make a standard that can be uniform across >}both uses. Computer graphics needs are relatively simple compared to all >}the needs of the television industry. There is no reason they cannot do it. >}Write to the committe. Write to the FCC. Write to your congressperson. >}Tell them we want a SINGLE HDTV STANDARD for both television and computers. Besides trying to get HDTV to use square pixels, in order to make it truly useable by computer standards we need to make sure that HDTV is non-interlaced. Speaking as an Amiga owner, I can attest to the fact that interlacing is no fun. If HDTV is interlaced then even with square pixels it will not be suitable for a serious computer display. Does anyone have the HDTV specs handy? Does it specify whether interlace is in there? -- John Sparks | {rutgers|uunet}!ukma!corpane!sparks | D.I.S.K. 24hrs 1200bps [not for RHF] | sparks@corpane.UUCP | 502/968-5401 thru -5406 Ideas don't stay in some minds very long because they don't like solitary confinement.
poynton@vector.Sun.COM (Charles A. Poynton) (05/19/89)
Phil@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu asked a few weeks ago: > Of the 1125 scanned lines in the Japanese HDTV standard, how many > of them are actually displayed? In the 1125/60 system, according to SMPTE 240M, 1035 lines contain picture. > It would be nice if this number is at least 1024 for computer > applications. Indeed it would. A major drawback of all of the 1050/59.94 systems proposed for broadcast in North America is that they have only 966 picture lines, inherited from twice NTSC. > I understand the aspect ratio is 3:2 so if we can get square > pixels, we can have 1536 pixels horizontally, maybe. The picture aspect ratio of virtually all HDTV systems is 16:9, according to the international CCIR Report 801-1. Using 1080 picture lines instead of 1035 would achieve square pixels with the proposed 1920 samples per line. Alternatively, square pixels could be achieved with 1035 lines of 1840 samples. C. ----- Charles A. Poynton Sun Microsystems Inc. <poynton@sun.com> 2550 Garcia Avenue, MS 8-04 415-336-7846 Mountain View, CA 94043 ----