awpaeth@watcgl.waterloo.edu (Alan Wm Paeth) (03/20/90)
In <1990Mar19.124914.15319@Octopus.COM> pete@octopus.COM (Pete Holzmann) writes: >In article <141623@felix.UUCP> art@felix.UUCP (Art Dederick) writes: >>In article <415@hal.CSS.GOV> bobowicz@hal.CSS.GOV (Tom Bobowicz) writes: >>> >>>... WDB II (World Database/Data Bank) II containing about 6 million >>> points describing costlines, political boundaries, rivers, lakes, >>> etc. Available on magnetic tape for $660. >> >>Since there has been many requests for map databases and this >>particular database seems to be the most comprehensive, but expensive, >>how about we all get together and pool our $'s to get a copy and put >>it on a FTP & UUCP site or other easy distribution method? I'm assuming >>once we have a copy we can re-distribute it. Someone please correct me >>if I'm wrong. > >NTIS does not want us redistributing 'their data'. I put this in quotes >because they have a peculiar definition of this: all they care about is >data formatted the way they have it. If the data is reformatted, then >nobody will mistake it as a copy of NTIS data. NTIS will therefor not >feel obliged to handle support requests in any way; this is really what >they want to avoid. This is a tough one. My copy of WDBII ran $600 US in May 1980 for merely a "basic" sales agreement allowing for internal use but little else (but internal to PARC and Xerox I gave it very wide distribution). The agreement was a signed gov. contract; the accompanying letter is excerpted here: "In case the terms of this basic Sales Agreement do not suit your anticipated use of the product, you should request either (1) the Resale Sales agreement or (2) the On-Line Service Agreement be sent to you for signing and returning to NTIS. The Resale agreement would allow you to "modify, improve, support, update, copy and sell" a NTIS machine-readable product under certain conditions, whereas the On-Line Service Agreement includes terms and conditions to allow you to offer your customers the use of the machine- readable product in an interactive (on-line) environment..." On the other hand, NTIS/Hershey fonts are everywhere in many formats; so Pete's point regarding previous precidents is well taken. With so many datasets now finding their way onto CD-ROM maybe this stuff is now up for grabs??? (Hmm, the distribution tape is before me, I'm now a permanent resident of Canada...) Incidentally, the entire dataset compacts nicely if coordinate chains are just (dx,dy) byte pairs in arc seconds; this gives about a 10:1 compression ratio (from twenty byte FORTRAN records) while introducing only a small number of fragmented vectors and leaving the dataset essentially unaltered. I've posted the software suite to this group previously and could do it again if there is sufficient interest *AND* if the dataset is made readily available on some FTP site -- I won't entertain requests for the former until someone can step forward offering the latter. The NTIS also had available a catalogue of electronic datasets but the Xerox "Technical Information Center" (PARC Library) was never able to secure a copy, despite repeated requests. Aside from WDBI, WDBII and the Hershey fonts are there any nice, comprehensive files out there useful for computer graphics? Sign me "a lover of large cartographic (geographic and astronomical) datasets" /Alan Paeth Computer Graphics Laboratory University of Waterloo
fvance@airgun.wg.waii.com (Frank Vance) (03/20/90)
In various articles recently, different people have requested/suggested
that the World Data Base II be re-distributed in different ways.
Our copy of the WDB II tapes bears a label which reads, in part:
"This file is made available by NTIS to increase public accessibility
to Federally funded technology. Reproduction for re-use or resale is
not authorized without the expressed permission of NTIS."
The cover letter contained a statement:
"Since NTIS is required by law to be self-supporting and must recover all
costs of its operations from the sale of its products, NTIS requests that
you do not resell this product in its original form as provided by NTIS."
Frank Vance fvance@airgun.wg.waii.com
Western Geophysical, Houston ...!uunet!airgun!fvance
--
Frank Vance fvance@airgun.wg.waii.com
Western Geophysical, Houston ...!uunet!airgun!fvancepete@Octopus.COM (Pete Holzmann) (03/21/90)
In article <390@airgun.wg.waii.com> fvance@airgun.wg.waii.com (Frank Vance) writes: >Our copy of the WDB II tapes bears a label which reads, in part: > "This file is made available by NTIS to increase public accessibility > to Federally funded technology. Reproduction for re-use or resale is > not authorized without the expressed permission of NTIS." > >The cover letter contained a statement: > "Since NTIS is required by law to be self-supporting and must recover all > costs of its operations from the sale of its products, NTIS requests that > you do not resell this product in its original form as provided by NTIS." These statements jibe perfectly with what NTIS told me when I contacted them about redistributing the Hershey Fonts. But I'd like to reiterate: *before* we go ahead with any plans for mass distribution of a reformatted WDBII, somebody should call NTIS and make sure that the policy holds for WDBII in the same way that it does for the Hershey fonts. This action will also ensure that we are in compliance with statement #1 above. In short: 1) We must obtain explicit permission to redistribute a reformatted version of WDBII. 2) NTIS requires that we not distribute WDBII "in its original form". In case you might be wondering about the NTIS statement above regarding 'NTIS...must recover all costs of its operations...', their attitude is that any redistribution of NTIS data "in its original form" could eventually come back to them as a request for support, since the data is recognizably in NTIS form. If the data is reformatted, then they cannot be held responsible for it in any way, and should therefore incur no costs relative to the redistribution. Pete -- Peter Holzmann, Octopus Enterprises |(if you're a techie Christian & are 19611 La Mar Ct., Cupertino, CA 95014 |interested in helping w/ the Great UUCP: {hpda,pyramid}!octopus!pete |Commission, email dsa-contact@octopus) DSA office ans mach=408/996-7746;Work (SLP) voice=408/985-7400,FAX=408/985-0859
janzen@bambi.mpr.ca (Martin Janzen) (07/28/90)
A few months ago, there was a discussion about creating a version of the World Data Bank II database that could be made available via ftp. The last article I saw on this topic was on March 21st. Has anyone with the WDB II tape actually contacted NTIS to see whether this can be done? If so, is this project under way somewhere? Enquiring minds want to know... -------------------------------------------------------------------------- Martin Janzen Voice: (604) 293-5309 MPR Teltech Ltd. FAX: (604) 293-5787 8999 Nelson Way Internet: janzen@mprgate.mpr.ca Burnaby, B.C. V5A 4B5 (134.87.131.13)
art@felix.UUCP (Art Dederick) (07/30/90)
In article <2270@kiwi.mpr.ca> janzen@bambi.mpr.ca (Martin Janzen) writes: >World Data Bank II database that could be made available via ftp. The If you send me a 9 track 2400 ft tape I will return it with WDB II, Standford version, and a few other map databases I have. I can support 1600 and 6250 BPI. I can support Sun QIC-24 cartridge tapes but with much more turn-around. 9 track I can and have done the same day I receive the tape. Expect 1-2 week turnaround for Sun tapes. Send the tape, with return address (no address no return), to: Art Dederick FileNet Corp. 3565 Harbor Blvd Costa Mesa, CA 92626 USA