[comp.graphics] bogus benchmarks

herzog@dogwalk.Eng.Sun.COM (Brian Herzog, DSGG/DGDO/GSP/MRG/LMNOP) (08/03/90)

In article <4299@tahoe.unr.edu> steve@olympus.UUCP (Stephen Wheatcraft) writes:
> [...]
>I have been doing some benchmark comparisons of IBM
>R-6000, Sun 3/80, Sun 3/280 and Sillicon Graphics
>Personal Iris 4-D25TG. [...]

I think benchmarks are important, valuable, complicated, and yes, dangerous.

I don't wish to engage in benchmark wars, and even if I did, this would
be an inappropriate forum.  But I would like to point out that you've
compared one company's latest and greatest RISC architecture against
another's aging CISC architecture.  Now, if that were all the second
company had to offer, that would be one thing, but it seems to me that
to compare an R-6000 against a Sun-3 is no more meaningful than to compare
a SPARCsystem against an IBM RT (at least that would be RISC vs RISC ;-).  
What's the point?  Surely one could select configurations that would better 
approximate an apples-to-apples comparison.

Opinions expressed are my own, etc., etc.

--
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Brian Herzog           "Badges?  We ain't got no badges. We don't need no
herzog@Eng.Sun.COM      badges. I don't have to show you any stinking badges!"
...!sun!eng!herzog                              - Treasure of the Sierra Madre

ddt@convex.COM (David Taylor) (08/04/90)

In article <140112@sun.Eng.Sun.COM> herzog@Eng.Sun.COM (Brian Herzog) writes:
>In article <4299@tahoe.unr.edu> steve@olympus.UUCP (Stephen Wheatcraft) writes:
>> [...]
>>I have been doing some benchmark comparisons of IBM
>>R-6000, Sun 3/80, Sun 3/280 and Sillicon Graphics
>>Personal Iris 4-D25TG. [...]
>
>I think benchmarks are important, valuable, complicated, and yes, dangerous.
>
>I don't wish to engage in benchmark wars, and even if I did, this would
>be an inappropriate forum.  But I would like to point out that you've
>compared one company's latest and greatest RISC architecture against
>another's aging CISC architecture.

I believe that steve compared the R-6000 to Sun computers because many of
us have a good feel for the speed of a Sun machine.  However, I feel that
it was definitely /not/ wise to compare optimized results to non-optimized
results.

As for the original question asking for a comparison between the R-6000 and
SGI machines ... I'd suggest you consult the SPEC Benchmark Results newsletter
of Spring 1990.  Each computer runs 10 benchmarks which stress all sorts of
different areas of performance (refer to SPEC Newsletter of Winter '90).
4 issues of the newsletter cost $150, if you'd like to subscribe.  I don't know
whether we, as a subscriber, are allowed to release numbers, but if you'd like
to learn them, go ahead and write:

SPEC
c/o Waterside Assoc.
39510 Paseo Padre Parkway, Suite 350
Fremont, CA  94538

or call:  (415) 792-3334

Be sure to ask for the SPEC Newsletter of Winter '90.  It's important for
understanding the importance of each benchmark.

	=-ddt->
--

     David D. Taylor, Esq, Performance Measurement Intern, Convex. (whew!)
         (214) 497-4860, ddt@convex.com or ddt@vondrake.cc.utexas.edu
                    Remember, flatulation is only natural.

eugene@wilbur.nas.nasa.gov (Eugene N. Miya) (08/04/90)

In article <140112@sun.Eng.Sun.COM> herzog@Eng.Sun.COM (Brian Herzog) writes:
>I think benchmarks are important, valuable, complicated, and yes, dangerous.
>
>I don't wish to engage in benchmark wars, and even if I did, this would
>be an inappropriate forum.

Er, which one is?  For graphics systems maybe, maybe not.
See below.

>compare one company's latest and greatest RISC architecture against
>another's aging CISC architecture.
....  Taken to the logic extreme you can compare ENIACs.
>What's the point?  Surely one could select configurations that would better 
>approximate an apples-to-apples comparison.

The problem with seeking "apples to apples" comparisons that that after a
while you are debating "MacIntosh versus Gold Delicious."  You end up
seeking more detail to form an opinion.  I think this is an appropriate
forum, however, we'd have to come to some consensus on methodology.
I think there are a lot of people interested in performance, but few of
them willing to do any work (much of which will be error prone and there
is lots of it).

The basic issues are	"what constitutes 'equivalence?'"
			"how does something compose/decompose?"

When some group of people can reach a consensus on these for graphics
systems (considering their diversity from the Apple II to the top of the
line E&S flight simulator image generation systems).  Then we can compare
systems.  At least two attempts and one SIGGRAPH session have tried to
address some of this without success.  Bogged down.
There is an economic advantage for some parties to keep people
confused and in the dark.

Consensus is how international systems of measurement work.

>Opinions expressed are my own, etc., etc.
Ditto.
--e. nobuo miya, NASA Ames Research Center, eugene@orville.nas.nasa.gov
  {uunet,mailrus,other gateways}!ames!eugene