inc@fluke.UUCP (Gary Benson) (03/02/85)
> > There is a recipe in "The Joy of Cooking" for Johnny Cakes. > If you don't have the book (everyone should) then go buy it. > -- > Mark Wutka I disagree most heartily with this often-stated opinion that everyone should own "Joy of Cooking". After having heard that from most of the people I ever discussed cookbooks with, I finally went out and sprung for it. Just so that the other side of the "which-cookbook-should-I-buy" question gets aired, I want to say I think it stinks. There are too many arcane little symbols, WAY too much cross-referencing, and the attempts at "cuteness" seem always slightly off the mark. There is also this built-in piece of snobbishness: recipes that are found particularly delightful as prepared at the family home are given the "ala whatever" treatment. I forget the name of the family home, but come on, who cares? I agree that it is probably the most extensive book of American cooking available, and I also agree that I can find a recipe for just about anything I want to cook. I admit I cannot think of one that would serve better as an all-around cookbook, but you're going to wind up with a collection anyway if you like to cook, so eventually you're going to go to be going to one cookbook for cajun dishes, another for Lebanese, and like that. I never recommend Joy, but if someone asks, I tell them to start collecting. And when I hear someone recommend it, I always take exception for the exact reasons stated hear. I sometimes feel like the voice in teh wilderness, but hey, it just goes to show that not *everyone* should own it. I shouldn't. -- Gary Benson {allegra microsoft ssc-vax telematic uw-beaver wavetek} fluke!inc John Fluke Mfg Co MS 232-E PO Box C 9090 Everett WA USA 98206 (206) 356-5367 + This is the day which the Lord hath made; let us rejoice and be glad in it! +
ecl@ahutb.UUCP (e.leeper) (03/03/85)
REFERENCES: <178@gitpyr.UUCP>, <558@tpvax.fluke.UUCP>
My personal favorite is THE SETTLEMENT COOKBOOK--which tells you everything you
need to know to do good basic cooking. (I need something with directions for
how to make ordinary biscuit dough, etc., though I *can* boil water without a
recipe.)
Evelyn C. Leeper
Note temporary kluge for new address => ...{ihnp4, houxm, hocsj}!ahuta!ahutb!ecljerem@tekgvs.UUCP (Jere Marrs) (03/04/85)
> > I disagree most heartily with this often-stated opinion that everyone should > own "Joy of Cooking". After having heard that from most of the people I ever > discussed cookbooks with, I finally went out and sprung for it. > > Just so that the other side of the "which-cookbook-should-I-buy" question > gets aired, I want to say I think it stinks. There are too many arcane > little symbols, WAY too much cross-referencing, and the attempts at > "cuteness" seem always slightly off the mark. There is also this built-in > piece of snobbishness: recipes that are found particularly delightful > as prepared at the family home are given the "ala whatever" treatment. I > forget the name of the family home, but come on, who cares? > > I agree that it is probably the most extensive book of American cooking > available, and I also agree that I can find a recipe for just about anything > I want to cook. I admit I cannot think of one that would serve better as an > all-around cookbook, but you're going to wind up with a collection anyway if > you like to cook, so eventually you're going to go to be going to one > cookbook for cajun dishes, another for Lebanese, and like that. > > I never recommend Joy, but if someone asks, I tell them to start collecting. > And when I hear someone recommend it, I always take exception for the exact > reasons stated hear. I sometimes feel like the voice in teh wilderness, but > hey, it just goes to show that not *everyone* should own it. I shouldn't. > > -- > Gary Benson {allegra microsoft ssc-vax telematic uw-beaver wavetek} fluke!inc > John Fluke Mfg Co MS 232-E PO Box C 9090 Everett WA USA 98206 (206) 356-5367 * I certainly agree that JOY is not a monograph on the culinary arts, but I think it's an invaluable addition to anyone's cookbook library regardless of the experience of the cook. Julia Child displays it prominently on her book- shelf. Having cooked for myself for 22 years, I found it a reliable resource for the fundamental information about cooking. As my skills have increased, I found upon rereading it that it had somehow 'learned quite a bit' also and I still refer to it often placing it on the shelf with my James Beard books and all the other greats. Many of their reecipes have come from family hand-downs the history of which is not only interesting (at least to some) but important to our heritage. My issue is the 1964 printing, and I believe that the daughter of Marion Rombauer Becker is contributing to the more recent editions. She attended the Cordon Bleu culinary academy in Paris while my sister was there. So the "folksy" presentation does not belie the expertise of the authors. Besides, any cookbook with a recipe for Corn Dodgers can't be all bad. If you want a dry monograph on cooking, you'll have to search a bit. A good approximation is James Beard's "Theory and Practice of Good Cooking," but I'm not sure even that would be academic enough. My notion is that people interested in good cooking would be *interested* in personal notes about recipes and their origins. Should you find a satisfactory book, I would be most interested to know what it is. Jere M. Marrs Tektronix, Inc. Beaverton, Oregon tektronix!tekgvs!jerem ** REPLACE THIS LINE WITH YOUR MESSAGE ***
tron@fluke.UUCP (Peter Barbee) (03/04/85)
I like a good discussion. I don't particularly like Joy_of_ Cooking either, so I'll recomend my *favorite* basic cookbook. _American_Cookery_ by James Beard This is a collection of American recipes accompanied by comments from Mr. Beard. I have been disappointed only twice by recipes contained therein (once was probably my fault). The seafood section is simply superb!! Peter Barbee decvax-+-uw-beaver-+ ihnp4--+ allegra-+ ucbvax----lbl-csam-+--fluke!tron sun-+ ssc-vax-+ :
klein@ucbcad.UUCP (03/04/85)
> I agree that it is probably the most extensive book of American cooking > available, and I also agree that I can find a recipe for just about anything > I want to cook. I admit I cannot think of one that would serve better as an > all-around cookbook, but you're going to wind up with a collection anyway if > you like to cook, so eventually you're going to go to be going to one > cookbook for cajun dishes, another for Lebanese, and like that. Joy is exceptionally good for *general* reference, like ingredients, methods, etc. Its value in my eyes is for that reason alone, and it is worth many times its price. Another cookbook that is an absolute essential if you're serious about it is Mastering the Art of French Cooking, Vol. 1 (Julia Child is co-author). This one is very detailed about the French interpretation of cooking and complements Joy very well. When I have a tough question on ingredients or methods, I will consult both. Mastering the Art also has many truly excellent and detailed recipes. In addition to these you should have a wide assortment of ethnic cookbooks to round out your repertoire. -- -Mike Klein ...!ucbvax!ucbmerlin:klein (UUCP) klein%ucbmerlin@berkeley (ARPA)
wmartin@brl-tgr.ARPA (Will Martin ) (03/05/85)
"Joy of Cooking" has been traditionally recommended as "the" cookbook to have. Because of this, many, many copies have been sold, and it has gone through many editions and revisions. I think this latter is the problem. It wasn't broke, but they fixed it. The recommendations for "Joy" have mainly, over the decades, come from people who bought their copies in the 40's & 50's. The book now is NOT the same book. It has been "modernized" and "cutsified" and otherwise deteriorated. I suggest you get a copy of "Joy of Cooking" at a yard or garage sale, or at a book fair, where you can get an old copy. I think you'll find that book to be a sensible reference and a very useful cookbook. Judge "Joy of Cooking" on the real, original book, not what has been done to it. Will Martin USENET: seismo!brl-bmd!wmartin or ARPA/MILNET: wmartin@almsa-1.ARPA
jfh@browngr.UUCP (John (Spike) Hughes) (03/06/85)
I can't agree with Gary Benson about The Joy... I *do* agree that it is, at times, precious, and that many of the recipes are not wonderful (all of them seem to have too much salt, and many have too much sugar), but as a guide to various aspects of preparation, storage, and the other mundane routines of cooking, it is full of information. I *do* suggest that the older editions are better. They're not so crowded with symbols (yes, I object to those, too), and they often have information that the new editions lack (like how to clean fresh fish, or how to eviscerate fresh fowl, etc.). I rarely use a recipe from the Joy, but I certainly like having it around... where else do you get that basic stuff. Julia Child can tell you how to cook wonderful foods, but she doesn't tell you how to store the leftovers. Craig Claiborne (in his 'Menu cookbok', for example) gives wonderful menus and recipes for all the subtle items, but what about the routine ones? If he calls for fresh cranberry sauce, how do you make it? (You look in TJOC and use the recipe there, with half the sugar). Start collecting, by all means, but begin by going to a second-hand bookstore and getting the oldest copy of the joy that you can find. -jfh
niemi@astroatc.UUCP (03/07/85)
On favorite cookbooks--my favorite plain vanilla cookbook is "Betty Crocker's Cookbook", (c) 1969 General Mills, Published by Golden Press, New York [no author -- heh, heh]. While this book may not raise squeals of delight from culinary artists (real or imagined) it is a complete generic reference. The recipes are sound, if unexciting; they provide a good departure point for experimentation. I think it is a good "first cookbook". Our copy (11th printing, 1972) is dog-eared and beat up. It can generally be found on top of the pile. Bob Niemi, Astronautics, Madison, WI ...uwvax!astroatc!niemi
alan@mtxinu.UUCP (Alan Tobey) (03/08/85)
I've heard a reliable rumor (from Harvey Steiman, formerly food editor for the SF Chronicle) that a NEW EDITION of Joy of Cooking is scheduled for publication in 1985 -- and that it'll take the "natural food"/"new American cuisine" stuff since its last edition into account. I'm trying to stretch my old edition (now largely a collection of loose pages!) for a few more months....