jmr@motown.UUCP (12/08/87)
OK. Here's the perfect question for comp.unix.questions:
Why do I have UNIX? Or rather, Why do I have AT&T System V UNIX??
Now, I'm not trying to bee *too* sarcastic, but this really bothers
me! Three years ago, when I was ``UNIX shopping,'' for a VAX, the
choice was System V or Ultrix -- Now, as an end-user commercial
installation, we needed to buy support for all the broken commands.
The arguments went something like:
Well, DEC is fairly new at Ultrix -- as a secondary operating
system, you can be sure to get secondary support.
You could go BSD, but you're pretty much on your own as far
as support goes. Do it yourself or third party.
Look at everything that AT&T has invested in UNIX --
especially when it comes to VAX equipment -- They could
*NEVER* drop support for it!
Naturally, AT&T has dumped on their customers, now we're up the
proverbial creek!
The other major question is software -- Has anybody ever tried to BUY
anything to run on this? I'm about at my wits end!
+ We use COBOL extensively. There is no such thing as a true
COBOL compiler for this, in spite of what the vendors say.
+ Communications? HA! Ever try to find something good? I'm not picky
-- I'll look at ANYTHING!
+ Spreadsheets -- Well, I'm surrounded by Lotus people on PC's. Did
you know that some version of a Lotus look-alike is available for
EVERY version of UNIX *EXCEPT* System V?
+ Database programs -- Last check, all of these programs were limited
by machine restrictions -- My reports have to show integers in the
tens of billions of dollars -- too large for plain old ints. Should
I just go work for a smaller company?
+ Anybody out there realize that hardly ANY programs posted to usenet
sources will compile under vanilla System V -- even when they claim
to be able to do so?
What good is SVID, government tests, ``standards,'' verifications
suites, if you can't find any software to run on the thing? I'd much
prefer to spend my time *using* the machine than creating programs
that people with other operating systems are already running!
Well, I've rambled enough. The real point of this is guidance. AT&T
apparently doesn't want any more business from DEC owners. Now that
our maintenance contract is expiring, what to do?
1. Buy support third party for System V
2. With all my System V problems, should I move to BSD and
third party support?
3. Upgrade to System V 3? not too practical -- same problems
of no software, and there's nothing in it I would take
advantage of.
4. Sell the VAX and buy IBM PC's? Na -- just kidding!
I'm tempted with number 2, but scared to death of porting everything!
But seriously -- If anyone were buy UNIX today, is there *any* reason
for System V?
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"I enjoy working with human beings, and John M. Ritter
have stimulating relationships with them." Allied-Signal, Inc.
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{bellcore,clyde,ihnp4,princeton,rutgers}!motown!jmr
------------------------------------------------------------------------------gwyn@brl-smoke.ARPA (Doug Gwyn ) (12/13/87)
AT&T quit providing new releases for the VAX in 1984, rightly observing that computer vendors (DEC in this case) should take care of this themselves. Unfortunately, DEC has their own flavor, Ultrix-32, that they prefer to provide and support. There are companies (e.g., Uniq) that provide and support UNIX System V (current release) for DEC VAXes. As to software, I know of lots of useful, supported commercial software for UNIX systems, but VAXes running UNIX System V do not constitute a large market. It is usually easy enough to port another UNIX System V implementation of a product to the VAX, if you have the sources. You should consider paying to have it done..
dhesi@bsu-cs.UUCP (Rahul Dhesi) (12/15/87)
In article <6813@brl-smoke.ARPA> gwyn@brl.arpa (Doug Gwyn (VLD/VMB) <gwyn>) writes: >AT&T quit providing new releases for the VAX in 1984, rightly observing >that computer vendors (DEC in this case) should take care of this >themselves. Rather than a question of what's "right" and what "should" be done, which sound like moral stands, I suspect it was purely a business decision that AT&T probably thought would be better for its financial health. Could be a touch of NIH too. I think the decision to drop support for VAX hardware probably hurt AT&T's apparent goal of establishing System V as a standard. -- Rahul Dhesi UUCP: <backbones>!{iuvax,pur-ee,uunet}!bsu-cs!dhesi
gwyn@brl-smoke.ARPA (Doug Gwyn ) (12/15/87)
In article <1693@bsu-cs.UUCP> dhesi@bsu-cs.UUCP (Rahul Dhesi) writes: >I think the decision to drop support for VAX hardware probably hurt >AT&T's apparent goal of establishing System V as a standard. I think so, too, but then AT&TIS seemed to think they were in the iron business, not the software business. You know what Harvard Business School graduate managers are like! By the way, I read that besides Uniq, HCR (Toronto) also provides a VAX UNIX System V Release 3. Because neither the OS originator nor the iron vendor offer this, the field is open for such third parties.
mwm@eris.BERKELEY.EDU (Mike (My watch has windows) Meyer) (12/15/87)
In article <6834@brl-smoke.ARPA> gwyn@brl.arpa (Doug Gwyn (VLD/VMB) <gwyn>) writes:
<By the way, I read that besides Uniq, HCR (Toronto) also provides
<a VAX UNIX System V Release 3. Because neither the OS originator
<nor the iron vendor offer this, the field is open for such third
<parties.
I just came from DSIN (featuring the worlds worst user interface).
There was a note therein that indicated to me that DEC was going to be
offering a System V product.
Anyone wanna volunteer real information?
<mike
--
And then up spoke his own dear wife, Mike Meyer
Never heard to speak so free. mwm@berkeley.edu
"I'd rather a kiss from dead Matty's lips, ucbvax!mwm
Than you or your finery." mwm@ucbjade.BITNET