bobw@wdl1.UUCP (Robert Lee Wilson Jr.) (01/15/88)
We run 4.3 on a badly overloaded Vax 11/780. In planning an upgrade we confront a statement that Vax 8xxx machines don't/won't have BSD family Unix available. I would appreciate mailed comments on the following two questions: (as always, if there seems to be wide interest or a pattern in the answers I will distribute that back to the net.) (1) How accurate is the statement regarding 8xxx systems and BSD? (We are of course checking with Mt. Xinu, but it is always nice to have other sources.) (2) (Perhaps even more important, for reasons of internal politics... :-)) If we were to switch from 11/780 with 4.3 and a lot of local customization to 8xxx with Ultrix, what sort of incompatibilities could we expect to face? How well will Ultrix deal with our Ethernets and Cisco gateways going off to Arpa? How consistent are goodies like system calls, i.e. can we expect just to recompile C sources for local code and go? I would really appreciate hearing from anyone who has been through this switch: If your experiences are too complex to type in, send me a telephone number and I will be glad to foot the bill for a lengthier discussion. Thanks for any information you can give, Bob Wilson at Ford Aerospace and Communications Corp. (bobw@ford-wdl1.arpa, (415) 852-6572)
rogers@amadeus.TEK.COM (Roger Southwick (rogers@dadla.TEK.COM)) (01/20/88)
In article <4350002@wdl1.UUCP> bobw@wdl1.UUCP (Robert Lee Wilson Jr.) writes: > > We run 4.3 on a badly overloaded Vax 11/780. In planning an upgrade we > confront a statement that Vax 8xxx machines don't/won't have BSD family > Unix available. I would appreciate mailed comments on the following two > questions: > (as always, if there seems to be wide interest or a pattern in > the answers I will distribute that back to the net.) > > (1) How accurate is the statement regarding 8xxx systems and BSD? (We are > of course checking with Mt. Xinu, but it is always nice to have other > sources.) I know that 4.3 will not run on an 8XXX machines, and have heard that 4.4 (now in Beta Test) WILL run on 8XXX machines. > (2) (Perhaps even more important, for reasons of internal politics... :-)) > If we were to switch from 11/780 with 4.3 and a lot of local customization > to 8xxx with Ultrix, what sort of incompatibilities could we expect to > face? I have one 4.3 BSD 780 and a 8700 running Ultrix 2.0. While most of our binaries work just fine, there are quite a few that require re-compiling (anything to do with sockets) and I do have one program that will re-compile, has no lint -habxc errors, and yet refuses to work properly. I don't guarentee binary compatibility to my users. Now as far as customization in the kernel goes, forget it. I got the source, and it was incomplete...no drivers for anything on the Bi-bus except for the dmb-32. I've gotten a few binary kernel patches from DEC, and no source patches....so I don't dare run a kernel compiled with my source... DEC also does not send you patches automatically...you have to wait until you have a problem, and then they'll send you a patch... One of our patches was for the tu81+. It had a bug in the driver where a bad tape would cause the driver to lock up. The only solution was to re-boot (ick). When I called DEC in, they checked around, and after a few hours of looking found a patch that 'they had known about for 3 weeks'. The patch they sent did not fix it, but provided a way to at least re-set the error (mt clhrdsf). Now this is wonderful, but a pain if you get an error in the 3rd tape of a 3 volume dump.... You abort the dump, and do the mt command, then restart the dump (and go thru tapes 1 & 2 again). > How well will Ultrix deal with our Ethernets and Cisco gateways > going off to Arpa? Don't know that answer to that one. > How consistent are goodies like system calls, i.e. can > we expect just to recompile C sources for local code and go? Some things will work just fine. Some don't... > I would really appreciate hearing from anyone who has been through this > switch: If your experiences are too complex to type in, send me a telephone > number and I will be glad to foot the bill for a lengthier discussion. > > Thanks for any information you can give, > Bob Wilson at Ford Aerospace and Communications Corp. > (bobw@ford-wdl1.arpa, (415) 852-6572) If you want, Bob, drop me a note, and I'll mail you my phone number. -Roger (rogers@dadla.LA.TEK.COM) UUCP: {ihnp4 | decvax | ucbvax}!tektronix!dadla!rogers ARPA: rogers%dadla.LA.TEK.COM@RELAY.CS.NET
richl@penguin.USS.TEK.COM (Rick Lindsley) (01/20/88)
In article <3007@zeus.TEK.COM> rogers@amadeus.UUCP (Roger Southwick) writes:
I know that 4.3 will not run on an 8XXX machines, and have heard that
4.4 (now in Beta Test) WILL run on 8XXX machines.
Sure will be a surprise to teklds.tek.com, Roger! 4.3 does run on 8600's
and 8650's so long as they don't have a BI bus. And as he says, 4.4 is
reputed to even run on those nasty BI's.
Rickrogers@amadeus.TEK.COM (Roger Southwick (rogers@dadla.TEK.COM)) (01/20/88)
In article <148@puffin.USS.TEK.COM> richl@penguin.USS.TEK.COM (Rick Lindsley) writes: >In article <3007@zeus.TEK.COM> rogers@amadeus.UUCP (Roger Southwick) writes: > > I know that 4.3 will not run on an 8XXX machines, and have heard that > 4.4 (now in Beta Test) WILL run on 8XXX machines. > >Sure will be a surprise to teklds.tek.com, Roger! 4.3 does run on 8600's >and 8650's so long as they don't have a BI bus. And as he says, 4.4 is >reputed to even run on those nasty BI's. > >Rick Sorry about that! Rick is of course correct. I meant to say 87XX, and not 8XXX. Gee it sure is easy to see when I read my news when I have yet to have my caffine and sugar :-) :-). -Roger (rogers@dadla.LA.TEK.COM) UUCP: {ihnp4 | decvax | ucbvax}!tektronix!dadla!rogers ARPA: rogers%dadla.LA.TEK.COM@RELAY.CS.NET
chris@mimsy.UUCP (Chris Torek) (01/22/88)
>In article <4350002@wdl1.UUCP> bobw@wdl1.UUCP (Robert Lee Wilson Jr.) writes: >>We run 4.3 on a badly overloaded Vax 11/780. In planning an upgrade we >>confront a statement that Vax 8xxx machines don't/won't have BSD family >>Unix available. In article <3007@zeus.TEK.COM> rogers@amadeus.TEK.COM (Roger Southwick (rogers@dadla.TEK.COM)) writes: [why two addreses in one `From' line?] >I know that 4.3 will not run on an 8XXX machines, Correct. >and have heard that 4.4 (now in Beta Test) WILL run on 8XXX machines. No. The next release (which might be called the Tahoe release, or might be 4.3a [though IBM has used that name already], but probably will not be called 4.4) will run on CCI/Harris/<whoever> `Tahoe' machines (includes the CCI Power 6/32 and the Harris HCX-7, if I remember all the right words). It *may* run on Vax 8200 and 8250s; I ported 4.3 to the 8250 when we exchanged two 750s for 8250s several months ago, and I am trying to get that code integrated with the release version (I did it once but with a later version: arrgh) before it goes out. I say 8200, not 8XXX, because the other 8000 series machines are different. One important feature ( :-) ) of the 8200 series is that it has only one BI bus. Otherwise you will have to re-rework autoconf, something I intend to do anyway, but possibly the second trickiest part of the whole deal. The only BI drivers I have as yet are for the DWBUA (Unibus) and the KDB50. (This leaves those with KLESIs and DMB32s ... `unsatisfied?' ... `holding the dirty end of the stick?') I have DEBNAs on both machines but still need to figure out the BI Vax Port protocol or get some documentation from somewhere; since we have DEUNAs on the BUAs it has not been important (and since one of the CDC disks on one machine is dying and Emulex does not have EVM working on the 82xx yet, I have to disassemble and rewrite their formatter first anyway---they refuse to sell source in any form, even though it is there in the object anyway, if you just look at it right. What a waste. But I digress...). Those who are desperate and hold a 4.3 source license can talk to me (and/or hire me at exorbitant consultant rates :-) ) to get 4.3BSD for the 8200, or any other Vax, as long as I have one to play with. (Want 4.3 on the 8700? Give *me* one :-) .) -- In-Real-Life: Chris Torek, Univ of MD Comp Sci Dept (+1 301 454 7163) Domain: chris@mimsy.umd.edu Path: uunet!mimsy!chris
mwm@eris (Mike (My watch has windows) Meyer) (01/22/88)
In article <10284@mimsy.UUCP> chris@mimsy.UUCP (Chris Torek) writes:
<>I know that 4.3 will not run on an 8XXX machines,
<
<Correct.
Well, almost (as has been pointed out before). If you read 8XXX as
"machines cursed with a BI bus." The 8600 and 8650 predate the BI bus,
and so don't have one. They run 4.3. And run it fast. Our 8650 running
4.3 supports more users than our 8800 running Ultrix 2.0.
<Those who are desperate and hold a 4.3 source license can talk to
<me (and/or hire me at exorbitant consultant rates :-) ) to get
<4.3BSD for the 8200, or any other Vax, as long as I have one to
<play with. (Want 4.3 on the 8700? Give *me* one :-) .)
If I give you an 8800, how long will it take to get 4.3 running on
both processors :-)?
<mike
--
Teddies good friend has his two o'clock feast Mike Meyer
And he's making Teddies ex girl friend come mwm@berkeley.edu
They mistook Teddies good trust ucbvax!mwm
Just for proof that Teddy was dumb. mwm@ucbjade.BITNETphil@amdcad.AMD.COM (Phil Ngai) (01/22/88)
In article <4350002@wdl1.UUCP> bobw@wdl1.UUCP (Robert Lee Wilson Jr.) writes: > >(2) (Perhaps even more important, for reasons of internal politics... :-)) >If we were to switch from 11/780 with 4.3 and a lot of local customization >to 8xxx with Ultrix, what sort of incompatibilities could we expect to Here's something to consider. The DEC Ultrix-32 manuals are copyrighted and cost $730 per set. If you have 32 users and want to just buy one set and make copies for people, you must buy a "right to copy" license at $182 per copy. Call DEC Direct and ask. 800 343 4040. The part number is QLZEK-GZ. -- The VT220 keyboard sucks, but the VT320 is usable. DEC finally got it right! Phil Ngai, {ucbvax,decwrl,allegra}!amdcad!phil or phil@amd.com