gary@ur-cvsvax.UUCP (Gary Sclar) (02/18/85)
I just returned from a trip to california where i ate lots of
sushi; one could call me a sushi fanatic. I have heard that there
is one form of sushi which it is illegal to serve in this country,
but that it is the best you can ever get; indescrible. The fish in
question is a poisonous variety, i think, of puffer fish called, in
japanese, 'fugu', and all the internal organs (like the liver and
intestines) have to be scrupulously removed or the dinner faces a
quick, but sometimes delayed, death due to paralysis. A japanese
friend of mine has related a proverb about all of this:
'You are crazy if you eat fugu;
and you are crazy if you don't eat fugu'
I would like to hear from other sushi fanatics who have tried this
fish, and are able to compare it to the more usual fish (ie- tuna,
snapper, halibut, yellowtail) that are served as sushi. What's all
the hubbub about; what makes this deadly fish worth eating?
{seismo!rochester!cvsvax!gary}
G. Sclar; Center for Visual Science, University of Rochester,
Rochester, N. Y., 14727nemo@rochester.UUCP (Wolfe) (02/19/85)
> 'You are crazy if you eat fugu; > and you are crazy if you don't eat fugu' > > G. Sclar; Center for Visual Science, University of Rochester, > Rochester, N. Y., 14727 You might check out issues of Smithsonian Magazine, early last fall or perhaps last summer. They had an article devoted to fugu sushi, describing some of the lore and facts of the delicacy. Apparently, fugu chefs are licensed in Japan as even miniscule amounts of the puffer fish's poisin can be lethal. In fact, a famous kabuki actor who had recently been declared a national treasure by the Japanese government died after eating four dishes of fugu. Certainly part of the thrill must be in the gamble you take in trying it at all. Nemo
ignatz@aicchi.UUCP (Ihnat) (02/22/85)
I, too, had heard that fugu was illegal in America. However, one evening, while talking to a waiter at a local sushi restaurant who has become more than a passing acquaintance, I asked about it. It seems that he claims that it can be sold here, and in fact *is* sold at another one of their locations. He said that the chef does have to be specially licensed here in the U.S., and that's why only one of their two (now three) locations serves this. (He ALSO commented that it was *very* expensive; this, to two people who'd just dropped about $80 on sushi, less drinks. I'm not sure I want to know how much it might cost...) Now, for specifics: The restaurant in question is "Happy Sushi", on north Clark St. in Chicago. They now have two suburban locations-- one on Vail St. in Arlington Heights, and a new one that I've not been to yet, so I haven't memorized the nameless suburb they picked. The Arlington Heights location, in general, has higher prices but a better selection, and (it seems to me) fresher sushi (Sorry, Kiyoshi!); and this is the one that is supposed to serve fugu. AGAIN: I haven't asked for it there yet, since I've not been back to the suburban location yet; I fully intend to. I'll let you all know once I either get served, or turned down. (If I die, it may take a while to get a newsfeed, so be patient.) Incidentally, the fish *is* supposed to be quite tasty, and you're also supposed to get a tingling feeling in your fingers, toes, tongue, etc. Yes, I can imagine why; no matter how good it is, only one serving, thank you... -- Dave Ihnat Analysts International Corporation (312) 882-4673 ihnp4!aicchi!ignatz
wmartin@brl-tgr.ARPA (Will Martin ) (08/07/85)
I've only had the chance to have sushi a few times, when visiting
California, and loved it. However, since then, I've read some newspaper
articles describing various vile and loathsome parasitical infections or
other ill effects that can arise from eating sushi, and have been scared
away. I was wondering if anyone out there had some hard knowledge about
this topic -- how likely is it that I will suffer some ill effect from
eating sushi or sashimi at a commercial sushi bar or Japanese restaurant
in America? (Would location make any difference?)
I can't see that such shops could stay in business long if the ill
effects were anything but very rare -- the legal judgements against
them, or the cost of liability insurance, would drive them out of
business. So, are these sensationalistic newspaper articles just drivel?
Is it really perfectly safe to gobble all the sushi I can afford?
("Perfectly" being a real-world chance of something like one in ten
million that I will contract some dreaded infestation...)
Or are ill effects, bad enough to require some form of treatment or
having permanent repercussions, really relatively common, and people just
accept them as the cost of enjoying this foodstuff?
Regards,
Will Martin
UUCP/USENET: seismo!brl-bmd!wmartin or ARPA/MILNET: wmartin@almsa-1.ARPAphil@amdcad.UUCP (Phil Ngai) (08/09/85)
I've been eating sushi about every two or three weeks for about nine months.
I never had any problems until a month ago. I got a very unpleasant case
of diarrhea which lasted three days. The kind where you just stay in bed
and wish you would die, when you're not in the bathroom. There don't appear
to be any permanent effects but it'll be a while before I do it again. The
person I had dinner with ate almost the same things I did and did not
experience any adverse effects. What this means I don't know.
--
"Where are all the good men?"
"I think they're out with all the bad women!"
Phil Ngai (408) 749-5720
UUCP: {ucbvax,decwrl,ihnp4,allegra}!amdcad!phil
ARPA: amdcad!phil@decwrl.ARPAhoward@sfmag.UUCP (H.M.Moskovitz) (08/09/85)
> I've only had the chance to have sushi a few times, when visiting > California, and loved it. However, since then, I've read some newspaper > articles describing various vile and loathsome parasitical infections or > other ill effects that can arise from eating sushi, and have been scared > away. I was wondering if anyone out there had some hard knowledge about > this topic -- how likely is it that I will suffer some ill effect from > eating sushi or sashimi at a commercial sushi bar or Japanese restaurant > in America? (Would location make any difference?) > I have never been ill after Sushi and I eat alot of it. A sushi chef told me once, in reply to a question about what types of fish were suitable for sushi, that no fresh-water fish should be used since these tended to be harmful (either via parasites or toxins, don't know for sure). He said only salt-water fish were used, and if you look at the charts that they have in sushi bars, all the types of *fish* are salt-water varieties (like tuna, mackerel, salmon). The non-fish types are things like abalone, sea-urchin, sea-eel, octopus, squid, etc... If you are truly worried, get sushi ala-carte, and have things that you feel safe with like shrimp, crab or a maki-roll that has no fish in it at all (like a futo-maki which has cooked egg and veggies only). -- --------------------------------------------------------------------- Howard Moskovitz AT&T Info. Systems attunix!howard
werner@aecom.UUCP (Craig Werner) (08/10/85)
> I've only had the chance to have sushi a few times, when visiting > California, and loved it. However, since then, I've read some newspaper > articles describing various vile and loathsome parasitical infections or > other ill effects that can arise from eating sushi, > Will Martin From my clipping file (a summary): Sushi found to harbor Parasites. Kwizo Sugimachi, MD and colleagues at Kyushu U. cite 178 cases of Anisakis larval infection resulting from incooked fish in the 15 years between 1969 and 1984. Raw Mackerel accounted for 87% of the cases. All patients became ill within 12 hours after eating the fish. All were treated successfully by endoscopically removing the larvae and administering antacids. Otherwise the pain would have persisted for several days until the larvae died. Most of the US cases are a Phocanema-like larvae that is usually coughed up. Most larvae, however, pass through the systen without causing any distress. Larvae in fish can be killed by smoking or cooking, and also by freezing at -20C for three days (so much for fresh fish). -- Craig Werner !philabs!aecom!werner "The world is just a straight man for you sometimes"
minow@decvax.UUCP (Martin Minow) (08/12/85)
Since sushi is made with raw fish, you should eat it in resturants which are careful about their cleanliness, and which have a good supply of fresh fish. I.e., in seaports at Japanese resturants. A few years ago, a companion on a ski trip who is a professor of veterinary medicine at Harvard suggested always drinking beer or sake with sushi as the alcahol kills any parasites that might be in the fish. I have no idea if that's true or not, but it makes good party conversation. Martin Minow decvax!minow
wcs@ho95e.UUCP (x0705) (08/12/85)
> I've only had the chance to have sushi a few times, when visiting > California, and loved it. However, since then, I've read some newspaper > articles describing various vile and loathsome parasitical infections or ..... > Is it really perfectly safe to gobble all the sushi I can afford? (Well, there's this serious risk of being mistaken for a yuppie, but... :~) I've been eating it for about 5 years, and my wife grew up on the stuff. The only bad effects I've had have been equivalent to eating too much meat when your stomach just isn't in the mood, and I've also gotten that from cooked meat. Sushi restaurants tend to be very meticulous about preparing the food, and the fish has to be much fresher than the stuff your corner diner gets for cooking - the increased quality of preparation makes up for the increased risks of things that can grow in raw fish. Besides, enough wasabe and sake should sterilize anything. -- ## Bill Stewart, AT&T Bell Labs, Holmdel NJ 1-201-949-0705 ihnp4!ho95c!wcs
doug@terak.UUCP (Doug Pardee) (08/12/85)
Here's an unimpeachable source: I heard this on TV :-)
Salt-water fish are generally okay to eat raw.
Fresh-water fish are definitely off-limits unless cooked.
--
Doug Pardee -- CalComp -- {seismo!noao,decvax!noao,ihnp4}!terak!dougcat@tommif.UUCP (Catherine Mikkelsen) (08/15/85)
In article <499@brl-tgr.ARPA>, wmartin@brl-tgr.ARPA (Will Martin ) writes: > I've only had the chance to have sushi a few times, when visiting > California, and loved it. However, since then, I've read some newspaper > articles describing various vile and loathsome parasitical infections or > other ill effects that can arise from eating sushi, and have been scared > away. I was wondering if anyone out there had some hard knowledge about > this topic -- how likely is it that I will suffer some ill effect from > eating sushi or sashimi at a commercial sushi bar or Japanese restaurant > in America? (Would location make any difference?) I, too, have read literature about getting worms (or something) from sushi and would like to know more. I recently read somewhere that one can not only catch worms from sushi, but also from other raw seafood, such as raw oysters. Glleergh. Someone told me that the reason sushi-makers place wasabe (horseradish) on each piece of sushi is to kill such germs/animals/whatever. This doesn't sound true. I recently read the following as well: tons of people in Japan suffer from this parasitical infection (well said, Will). It doesn't seem to go away. One should therefore not frequent sushi restaurants with questionable habits of cleanliness, etc., since, according to the afore- mentioned article, people who select fish for these restaurants usually check them carefully to make sure that they haven't got, er, parasites. (I took this to mean that sushi makers have some amount of training in detecting fish problems.) The article seemed to imply that one's chances of catching this tenacious parasitical problem are in exact proportion to the amount of sushi he/she eats. HOWEVER: the article was written in the SF Chronicle, last bastion of semi-hysterical reporting (said article was sandwiched in between at least 14 articles detailing mass murders, bizarre acts with animals and IBM PCs, etc. SO, as we say in the area, take it with a grain of salt. DAMN. And I have a combination sushi restaurant/hot tub place just down the street!! Can't someone quote a medical journal?? Catherine Mikkelsen decwrl!greipa!tommif!cat
cat@tommif.UUCP (Catherine Mikkelsen) (08/15/85)
And one more thing: the article that I read said that it is a good idea not to eat dark fish (i.e. mackeral) if you're worried about sushi-worm, since if you scrutinize your fish before eating it (ahem) you can, in the lighter varieties at least, detect any worms or whatever. So keep your eyes peeled! (sorry:-) cat
fujiura@tkov60.DEC (Ichiri Fujiura TKH-Region/Engineering-Tokyo/Japan) (08/17/85)
>I, too, have read literature about getting worms (or something) >from sushi and would like to know more. I recently read somewhere that >one can not only catch worms from sushi, but also from other raw seafood, >such as raw oysters. Glleergh. > >Someone told me that the reason sushi-makers place wasabe (horseradish) >on each piece of sushi is to kill such germs/animals/whatever. This >doesn't sound true. > >I recently read the following as well: tons of people in Japan suffer ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ >from this parasitical infection (well said, Will). It doesn't seem to ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ >go away. ~~~~~~~~ Is it true ? I did not know... > One should therefore not frequent sushi restaurants with >questionable habits of cleanliness, etc., since, according to the afore- >mentioned article, people who select fish for these restaurants usually >check them carefully to make sure that they haven't got, er, parasites. >(I took this to mean that sushi makers have some amount of training in >detecting fish problems.) The article seemed to imply that one's chances >of catching this tenacious parasitical problem are in exact proportion >to the amount of sushi he/she eats. > I'm receiving net.cooks since last week. I'm surprising !! I've never hard such problem in Japan. It's restaurant's problem rather than Sushi. Sushi makers are one kind of artisan in Japan, and they must have very long time training more than 10 years such as chef of French restaurant. ( But.. Currently , It's not true for increase large amount of sushi restaurant. I think , especially in US. ) You should make sure quality of restaurant. I wish you enjoying wonderful Japanese foods. Ichiri Fujiura DEC E-NET TKOV60::FUJIURA UUCP {decvax,ucbvax,allegra}!decwrl!dec-rher!dec-tkov60!fujiura ARPA fujiura%tkov60.DEC@decwrl.ARPA Nihon Digital Equipment Corp. Software Services Engineering Div. 3-1-1 Higashi-Ikubukuro Toshima-ku Tokyo, 170 Japan
brianb@3comvax.UUCP (Brian Bechtel) (08/19/85)
> >I, too, have read literature about getting worms (or something) > >from sushi and would like to know more. I recently read somewhere that > >one can not only catch worms from sushi, but also from other raw seafood, > >such as raw oysters. Glleergh. . . . . . > I've never hard such problem in Japan. It's restaurant's problem rather than > Sushi. Sushi makers are one kind of artisan in Japan, and they must have very > long time training more than 10 years such as chef of French restaurant. > ( But.. Currently , It's not true for increase large amount of sushi > restaurant. I think , especially in US. ) You should make sure quality of > restaurant. According to the Morbidity and Mortality Weekly Report (a publication for epidemiologists), parasite infection from commercially prepared sushi is very rare in the US. Sushi makers are trained to recognize bad fish, and won't serve it. Their training appears to be effective. I can't quote the exact statistic, but the ratio was something like: out of 150 cases of parasitical infection reported to the CDC, 1 was from a restaurant, 149 were from home-prepared foods. -- --Brian Bechtel {hplabs,fortune,idi,ihnp4,tolerant,allegra,tymix}!oliveb\ desteng }3comvax!brianb amdahl!bnrmtv/
wfi@rti-sel.UUCP (William Ingogly) (08/21/85)
In article <161@3comvax.UUCP> brianb@3comvax.UUCP (Brian Bechtel) writes: > ... Sushi makers are trained to recognize >bad fish, and won't serve it. Their training appears to be effective. I get the feeling, however, that at least some of the Japanese steak houses I've been to don't have official sushi chefs, since they typically have one or two sushi offerings on the menu (sometimes once a week). In this sort of a place I steer clear of the sushi since it's doubtful they'll hire someone with sufficient training to judge the quality of raw fish on a part-time basis. Seems to me the best policy is to eat sushi only at reputable and established sushi bars. -- Cheers, Bill Ingogly
prastein@uiucdcs.Uiuc.ARPA (09/02/85)
In response to the more general question: Yes, one must be quite careful of much raw seafood. Many of our friends from the sea carry various parasites in various developmental stages that can be very harmful to people. I took a couple of courses in parasitic diseases as an undergrad and if anyone expresses interest I could look up the details (though I'm not sure whether net.cooks is the place for it...) but I do know that raw fish, shellfish, and SNAILS are things to be somewhat wary of.