wgh@ubbpc.UUCP (William G. Hutchison) (12/06/88)
When I was a student programmer I remember laughing at the huge size of the
Multics Systems Programmer's manuals -- imagine: a whole shelf of books just
to document an operating system!
Well, I have just seen the UN*X System V Release 4.0 Software Developer Notes
and I'm not laughing. To Quote Han Solo "I've got a bad feeling about this!".
I'm wondering if UN*X System V might be getting just a tad too big?
In particular:
many styles of networking: SunOS, TCP/IP, BSD sockets, streams;
multiple interfaces: curses, OPEN LOOK, NeWS, X11/NeWS;
more file system types: s5, BSD ufs, nfs, rfs, proc;
more types of inter-process communications: Xenix semaphores, sockets,
Sun RPC, Sys V ipc, named streams.
I could go on, but you get the idea. Extrapolating from Sys V rel 3, I bet
that the rel 4 manuals will be as bulky as the Multics manuals.
Now, for my point: can small-to-medium UN*X software vendors cope with this
complexity? I see several things that might happen:
(1) The market might reject Sys V Release 4 as too bulky (not likely, but
possible: this might move people to OSF/AIX),
(2) Lots of small vendors might go broke for lack of qualified personnel,
(3) UN*X porting houses might cope by just porting compilers and selling
straight AT&T code with no modifications (this might not be so bad),
(4) Software houses might stick with their historical orientation:
BSD shops would only use the features of Rel 4 that are common to BSD,
Xenix shops would stick to the Xenix features, etc.
Would this work or would it help retain the fragmentation in the UN*X
software that we see today?
My crystal ball is cloudy today. Do people who port UN*X have some opinions
on this issue (we here at the Unisys UNIX Portation Center port applications to
UN*X, we do not port UN*X itself).
An alternative, semi-serious hypothesis: have Ritchie, Thompson, Kernighan,
Plauger, et alii, been secretly working to re-invent Multics all these years
:-) ?
--
Bill Hutchison, DP Consultant rutgers!liberty!burdvax!ubbpc!wgh
Unisys UNIX Portation Center "What one fool can do, another can!"
P.O. Box 500, M.S. B121 Ancient Simian Proverb, quoted by
Blue Bell, PA 19424 Sylvanus P. Thompson, in _Calculus Made Easy_car@pte.UUCP (Chris Rende) (12/06/88)
In article <422@ubbpc.UUCP>, wgh@ubbpc.UUCP (William G. Hutchison) writes: > > When I was a student programmer I remember laughing at the huge size of the > Multics Systems Programmer's manuals -- imagine: a whole shelf of books just > to document an operating system! > > Well, I have just seen the UN*X System V Release 4.0 Software Developer Notes > and I'm not laughing. To Quote Han Solo "I've got a bad feeling about this!". > I'm wondering if UN*X System V might be getting just a tad too big? I started using Multics at college about 8 years ago. I started using Unix about a year ago. It is facinating(sp?) to see the "common roots" between Multics and Unix. It is also interesting to watch as Unix seems to be evolving into Multics. Items like: directorys with size limits, file access lists, security in general, password expiration, shared memory, real time computing, handling large numbers of users and resources, multi-processing, etc... are all fundamental Multics services. I think that the reason that Multics did not prosper they way Unix has is due to advances in hardware technology. Multics requires a mainframe, Unix doesn't. Since there are lots more smaller computers than big ones, Unix has been able to flourish. Let's be glad that the philosophies that originated from the Multics project are alive and well: Hiearchical file system, multi-tasking, etc.. It's just a shame that the wheel has to be re-invented. And, it's being re-invented by all sorts of companies. Now there are standards groups forming just to try and get some UNInity out of all the various Unix flavors. Take a look at Larry Wall's configure stuff sometime. I'm not Unix bashing, I think that Unix is fantastic (it's the closest thing to having a Multics on your desk :-). car. -- Christopher A. Rende Multics,DTSS,Shortwave,Scanners,StarTrek uunet!{umix,edsews}!rphroy!pte!car Minix,PC/XT,TRS-80 Model I: Buy Sell Trade Motorola VME1131 M68020 SVR2 Precise Technology & Electronics, Inc.
dannyb@kulcs.uucp (Danny Backx) (12/07/88)
In article <422@ubbpc.UUCP> wgh@ubbpc.UUCP (William G. Hutchison) writes: > (1) The market might reject Sys V Release 4 as too bulky (not likely, but > possible: this might move people to OSF/AIX), I honestly wonder: why do you think anything a committee (e.g. OSF) comes up with is going to be less bulky ? -- Danny -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Danny Backx | mail: Danny Backx Tel: +32 16 200656 x 3544 | Katholieke Universiteit Leuven Fax: +32 16 205308 | Dept. Computer Science E-mail: dannyb@kulcs.UUCP | Celestijnenlaan 200 A ... mcvax!prlb2!kulcs!dannyb | B-3030 Leuven dannyb@blekul60.BITNET | Belgium
wgh@ubbpc.UUCP (William G. Hutchison) (12/08/88)
In article <141@icarus.kulcs.uucp>, dannyb@kulcs.uucp (Danny Backx) writes: > In article <422@ubbpc.UUCP> wgh@ubbpc.UUCP (William G. Hutchison) writes: > > (1) The market might reject Sys V Release 4 as too bulky (not likely, but > > possible: this might move people to OSF/AIX), > I honestly wonder: why do you think anything a committee (e.g. OSF) comes up > with is going to be less bulky ? > -- Danny Backx E-mail: dannyb@kulcs.UUCP, dannyb@blekul60.BITNET No, I do not believe that at all. However, since AIX is several years away, it might not grow as big as Sys V rel 4 in the same period. So some misguided souls might perceive AIX as simpler around 1990-1992. #define inews (void*)0 #define inews (void*)0 #define inews (void*)0 -- Bill Hutchison, DP Consultant rutgers!liberty!burdvax!ubbpc!wgh Unisys UNIX Portation Center "What one fool can do, another can!" P.O. Box 500, M.S. B121 Ancient Simian Proverb, quoted by Blue Bell, PA 19424 Sylvanus P. Thompson, in _Calculus Made Easy_
dwc@homxc.UUCP (Malaclypse the Elder) (12/09/88)
In article <422@ubbpc.UUCP>, wgh@ubbpc.UUCP (William G. Hutchison) writes: > Now, for my point: can small-to-medium UN*X software vendors cope with this > complexity? I see several things that might happen: > > (1) The market might reject Sys V Release 4 as too bulky (not likely, but > possible: this might move people to OSF/AIX), i suspect that since BOTH camps will be trying to get the edge on each other in terms of new functionality and compatibility with everything under the sky (i was going to say SUN but that might be taken literally), that the systems are going to get larger and larger very fast. UNLESS 'smallness' of a system becomes a selling point... danny chen att!homxc!dwc