sbbur%CONNCOLL.BITNET@cunyvm.cuny.edu (05/20/89)
I recently solicited suggestions on making the transition from VMS to Ultrix. Connecticut College currently has a MicroVAX II running Ultrix and a VAX/8350 running VMS. We are planning to switch to Ultrix on the 8350 and eliminate the MVII. The following summarizes the responses I received. Thanks to all who responded. > ... swap the machines as an interim step before you eventually dump > the MVII... that would put most users on the faster machine, and make > it more attractive for the users who are using VMS to switch to Ultrix > while not feeling that they are getting their arms twisted into > switching. We've considered this. The expense of transferring software licenses (VMS, SPSSx, SAS, Minitab) would be our main reason not to do it. Also, we've only been a VMS shop for 12-18 months, and being a liberal arts school, we haven't developed a "hard-core" VMS user base. > ... consider switching to 4.3BSD-Tahoe UNIX instead of Ultrix as you > can probably save a considerable amount of money in yearly licensing > fees to DEC. If we'd have planned ahead a few years ago, that'd be an option to give serious consideration. However, I understand that BSD4.3 will NOT run on a VAX/8350. The 8350 has a dual-processor CPU which is not supported by BSD4.3. > ... there is a product called "Eunice" which allows BSD look-alike > commands to run under VMS. > Try EUNICE from The Wollongong Group ... We considered EUNICE when we first purchased the 8350 and the MVII. At the time we were concerned about efficiency and compatibility. Now, I think I'd rather try to find a DCL-like shell for UNIX than keep VMS around that much longer. > There are two VMS-like Shells for Unix. Dcl8 is sold by Accelr8; VCL is > sold by Boston Business Computing. In addition, both of these companies > sell a Edt-like editor to run in the Unix environment. > > Accelr8 Boston Business Computing > 303 East 17th Avenue Riverwalk Centre > Suite 108 360 Merrimack Street > Denver, CO 80203 Lawrence, MA 01843 > (303)863-8008 (voice) (508)683-7920 (voice) > (303)860-0742 (FAX) (508)686-8658 (FAX) > We've got VCL on our Sun's for the VMS types ... VCL is the perfect > example of a transition shell, i.e. it's got just enough inconsistencies > with DEC/VMS to annoy the VMSer's into switching to UNIX, but not enough > that they can say "I can't use this machine". > As a developer spending nearly equal time on both SysV and VMS, I > highly recommend *NOT* trying to emulate DCL on the Ultrix system. What > I feel is important is to use the command processor best suited to the o/s. > If you emulate DCL in the Ultrix environment, your users will never > learn to the use the Shell; and, the Shell is far better suited to > exploit the strengths of Unix. > For the transition period, set up a new directory for VMS commands > called, say, /usr/vmsbin, and place it at the head of the search path > for all users ... In this directory, place a small shell script for > each of the commands commonly used under VMS. DON'T, however, have that > command call the equivalent Unix command -- if you do this, it will only > confuse the users, and they will never get weaned off of VMS. Instead, > have the script just print a short message to stderr describing ways to > do the intended operation under Unix. We plan to investigate Dcl8 and VCL further. I've already contacted Boston Business Computing and the prices for VCL and their EDT-like editor are the same. They each range from $495 on a VAXSTATION 2000 to $3995 on a VAX 6320. We are more likely to go along with the last suggestion. The number and sophistication of our VMS users is such that guiding them to the appropriate Unix command will probably be sufficient. I'd hope they'd get the hang of Unix in just a few sessions. There are probably less than a dozen commands used on a regular basis. We also plan to offer some Unix workshops over the summer and early next semester. > We have EDT+ from Boston Business Computing on our systems. It is very > close to the real EDT. Our VMS users love it. > There is an EDT editor for unix. It is called "EDT+", and it is put out > by Boston Business Computing. ... I find that the only think that users > complain about is their inability to deal with text editors on different > operating systems. Supplying your VMS users with EDT will most likely be > all they need. > Boston Business Computing has two packages that you might be interested > in: VCL, which is a VMS DCL emulator and EDT+, which is EDT for Unix. > ... our VMS sysadmins were impressed with EDT+. > I would recommend evaluating the EDT product from Boston Software Works. > It is a very good EDT look-alike (even supporting init files.) ... I > don't think your average user will find learning emacs (or vi) trivial - > better perhaps to give them a familiar editor so they can be productive > right away, then gradually force them to become familiar with one of the > native editors. > As far as other editors go, I prefer jove. It is an emacs clone with > all the nice features of emacs without the elisp. It is small--the > latest version is about 220K as compared to vi which is about 145K as > compared to the GNUemacs which is about 660K stripped. Jove gives you > all the text editing and command completion features of emacs, stuff > that at least I find really important in an editor. You probably don't > want to run GNUemacs unless you have lots and lots of memory. Most of our VMS users use EVE (EDIT/TPU) as opposed to EDT. We will probably look at some flavor of emacs and plan on defining some standard function key assignments to help the users. Emacs and all those control/escape sequences can be a bit confusing. Thanks again to everyone who responded. Scott Burdick BITNET: sbbur@conncoll Manager of Computer Operations and Technical Support Connecticut College P.S. INSERT STANDARD DISCLAIMER HERE.
chris@mimsy.UUCP (Chris Torek) (05/20/89)
In article <19695@adm.BRL.MIL> sbbur%CONNCOLL.BITNET@cunyvm.cuny.edu writes: >... I understand that BSD4.3 will NOT run on a VAX/8350. The 8350 has a >dual-processor CPU which is not supported by BSD4.3. An 8350 is simply an 8250 with a second CPU board somewhere on the BI bus. 4.3BSD-tahoe (but not 4.3BSD) does run on the 8250, although the only supported BI devices are the KDB50 and the DWBUA Unibus adapter. The reason for this is that those are the only two device I have. (Actually, I also have one DEBNK board in each 8250, but cannot get documentation from DEC for the BI Network Interface Vax Port Protocol. This protocol is analgous to MSCP; DEC do not sell MSCP documentation either. Just *try* to buy item number QP-905-GZ....) -- In-Real-Life: Chris Torek, Univ of MD Comp Sci Dept (+1 301 454 7163) Domain: chris@mimsy.umd.edu Path: uunet!mimsy!chris