winfave@dutrun.UUCP (Alexander Verbraeck) (03/01/90)
At our department (information systems) a large number of students are working on Unix systems (Sun, HP). These systems are connected via ethernet. On the system we have a number of laser printers. At the moment, students are wasting enormous amounts of paper using the laser printers. We would like to limit their use of the printers. Unix does accounting for the printers. Question: is it possible to check for the number of printed pages and perform a "budget cutoff" when the allowed number of pages is surpassed? Does anyone have software for this? BTW: Why does UNIX have a cutoff for disk usage (quota) but not for printer usage? Any help would be appreciated! Sincerely, ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Alexander Verbraeck e-mail: winfave@dutrun.tudelft.nl Delft University of Technology winfave@hdetud1.bitnet Department of Information Systems winfave@dutrun.uucp PO Box 356, 2600 AJ The Netherlands dutrun!winfave@hp4nl.uucp ----------------------------------------------------------------------
murthy@algron.cs.cornell.edu (Chet Murthy) (03/02/90)
winfave@dutrun.UUCP (Alexander Verbraeck) writes: >At our department (information systems) a large number of students >are working on Unix systems (Sun, HP). These systems are connected >via ethernet. On the system we have a number of laser printers. At >the moment, students are wasting enormous amounts of paper using the >laser printers. We would like to limit their use of the printers. >Unix does accounting for the printers. Question: is it possible to >check for the number of printed pages and perform a "budget cutoff" >when the allowed number of pages is surpassed? Does anyone have >software for this? >BTW: Why does UNIX have a cutoff for disk usage (quota) but not for >printer usage? On SUNs, there's the "af" field in the /etc/printcap file, which turns on printer accounting. You then use the "pac(8)" filter to format and sort the file. --chet-- murthy@cs.cornell.edu
hughes@silver.ucs.indiana.edu (larry hughes) (03/02/90)
In article <1156@dutrun.UUCP> ed@duticai.UUCP (Ed de Wild) writes: >BTW: Why does UNIX have a cutoff for disk usage (quota) but not for >printer usage? Because the system won't crash if the printer runs out of paper, but it will if it runs out of swap space! //=========================================================================\\ || Larry J. Hughes, Jr. || hughes@ucs.indiana.edu || || Indiana University || || || University Computing Services || "The person who knows everything || || 750 N. State Road 46 Bypass || has a lot to learn." || || Bloomington, IN 47405 || || || (812) 855-9255 || Disclaimer: Same as my quote... || \\==========================================================================//
richard@aiai.ed.ac.uk (Richard Tobin) (03/02/90)
>Because the system won't crash if the printer runs out of paper, >but it will if it runs out of swap space! True, but I have seen a unix system (Vax 750, 4.2BSD) hang because the console had run out of paper! Putting in a new box of paper fixed the problem. -- Richard -- Richard Tobin, JANET: R.Tobin@uk.ac.ed AI Applications Institute, ARPA: R.Tobin%uk.ac.ed@nsfnet-relay.ac.uk Edinburgh University. UUCP: ...!ukc!ed.ac.uk!R.Tobin
guy@auspex.auspex.com (Guy Harris) (03/04/90)
>>BTW: Why does UNIX have a cutoff for disk usage (quota) but not for >>printer usage? > >Because the system won't crash if the printer runs out of paper, >but it will if it runs out of swap space! First of all, not all UNIX systems "crash" if they run out of swap space. The program that's trying to, say, increase its data space may get a "no can do" from "sbrk()" and have "malloc()" return NULL, but that's a different matter. Second of all, the disk space usage he was referring to was for *files*, not for *swap space*. Most UNIX systems don't "crash" if they run out of disk space for files, either....
winfave@dutrun.UUCP (Alexander Verbraeck) (03/05/90)
The *why* of disk quotas is clear now. Thanks to all who reacted. But, back to the original question: is something LIKE quotas also possible for the number of PRINTED PAGES? Is there a UNIX system out there where users have a LIMITED number of pages to spend??? Students will ruin you if you give them an unlimited number of pages to print on laser printers... All those christmas cards, sports results, etc. Which university is able to tell each user of the system: you have x kilobytes of disk space, y pages to print, and your account is finished on day z. I asked at our university, without any result. At one faculty someone monitors the printer account files once or twice a day, manually, and compares the number of printed pages with the limits, also manually. When the number of pages is surpassed, he mails the offending users, and after one or two warnings, he deletes their entry from the passwd file, manually. Hey: we aren't living in the stone age anymore!! Doesn't anyone have a PROGRAM for this? ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Alexander Verbraeck e-mail: winfave@dutrun.tudelft.nl Delft University of Technology winfave@hdetud1.bitnet Department of Information Systems winfave@dutrun.uucp PO Box 356, 2600 AJ The Netherlands dutrun!winfave@hp4nl.uucp ----------------------------------------------------------------------
khera@juliet.cs.duke.edu (Vick Khera) (03/05/90)
In article <1159@dutrun.UUCP> winfave@dutrun.UUCP (A.Verbraeck) writes: >Students will ruin you if you give them an unlimited number of pages to >print on laser printers... All those christmas cards, sports results, >etc. Which university is able to tell each user of the system: you have >x kilobytes of disk space, y pages to print, and your account is >finished on day z. [ description of manual printer limits deleted ] > >Hey: we aren't living in the stone age anymore!! Doesn't anyone have a >PROGRAM for this? > >Alexander Verbraeck e-mail: winfave@dutrun.tudelft.nl Academic Computing here at Duke implemented such a system. The students pay up front for the number of pages they want. The printing software tells the LaserWriter how many pages it is allowed to print, sends the print job, then asks the printer how many pages it actually printed. This value is subtracted from the account's remaining pages. All of this is automatic. This software runs on SunOS 4, by the way. I don't know who to contact about this, I just know they have implemented it. I am not affiliated with them in any way, so don't ask me for it. v. =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= Vick Khera Department of Computer Science ARPA: khera@cs.duke.edu Duke University UUCP: ..!{mcnc,decvax}!duke!khera Durham, NC 27706
juan@cobra.gatech.edu (Juan Orlandini) (03/07/90)
>>Students will ruin you if you give them an unlimited number of pages to >>print on laser printers... All those christmas cards, sports results, >>etc. Which university is able to tell each user of the system: you have >>x kilobytes of disk space, y pages to print, and your account is >>finished on day z. [ description of manual printer limits deleted ] >> >>Hey: we aren't living in the stone age anymore!! Doesn't anyone have a >>PROGRAM for this? >> >>Alexander Verbraeck e-mail: winfave@dutrun.tudelft.nl Here at Georgia Tech, the Office of Computer Services (OCS) gives each student a permanent student account. They also give them a certain amount of money (called banannas - for some reason unkown to me). All computers under OCS management have accounting software that will subtract from the allocated money based on what the user does. CPU time is more expensive than mere storage which is about as expensive as printing. Different platforms have different cost attributes, but are equivalent in terms of "real" work done. (They use a set of benchmarks to determine the ratios). This neatly solves user abuse problems. The more they abuse the less they have money to abuse with. Extreme cases of abuse are dealt with immediately. Overall, there is a subvocal grumble by most of the students about OCS policy being restrictive, but with limited resources, it is a quite effective way. Now, ICS on the other hand ... (just kidding OCS :-) Juan Juan Orlandini /// /// Super User at large /// What *I* say, *I* say. /// juan@cobra.gatech.edu \\\/// What *I* mean, *I* mean. \\\/// juan@prism.gatech.edu \XX/ What *you* get, *you* get. \XX/
chris@vision.UUCP (Chris Davies) (03/07/90)
In article <1159@dutrun.UUCP> winfave@dutrun.UUCP (A.Verbraeck) writes: >back to the original question: is something LIKE quotas also possible >for the number of PRINTED PAGES? Is there a UNIX system out there where >users have a LIMITED number of pages to spend??? > ... >Hey: we aren't living in the stone age anymore!! Doesn't anyone have a >PROGRAM for this? At the (UK) University I attended, this was indeed the case. The Computer Science dept had a setup whereby undergraduates had quotas for connect-time, printer pages PER PRINTER, and of course, disk quota (both preferred and enforced). The printer-paper quota was quite generous for the ordinary printers, but the laser printer was *very* restricted. All quotas were refreshed on a weekly basis. This was on Ultrix a couple of years ago. I don't know whether they still have this setup or not. For all of you who wonder why the Dept hasn't replied to this article thread: it's simple: they are not on Usenet (but they are accesible via email). However, I'm prepared to forward a message to their sysadmin (MAIL me), and if s/he chooses, it can be taken from there (with email, not news). Chris -- VISIONWARE LTD | UK: chris@vision.uucp JANET: chris%vision.uucp@ukc 57 Cardigan Lane | US: chris@vware.mn.org OTHER: chris@vision.co.uk LEEDS LS4 2LE | BANGNET: ...{backbone}!ukc!vision!chris England | VOICE: +44 532 788858 FAX: +44 532 304676 -------------- "VisionWare: The home of DOS/UNIX/X integration" --------------
wrwalke@prcrs.UUCP (William Walker) (03/08/90)
In article <19636@mephisto.UUCP>, juan@cobra.gatech.edu (Juan Orlandini) writes: > >>Students will ruin you if you give them an unlimited number of pages to > >>print on laser printers... All those christmas cards, sports results, > > Here at Georgia Tech, the Office of Computer Services (OCS) gives each > student a permanent student account. They also give them a certain amount > of money (called banannas - for some reason unkown to me). All computers > under OCS management have accounting software that will subtract from the > allocated money based on what the user does. CPU time is more expensive > than mere storage which is about as expensive as printing. Different > platforms have different cost attributes, but are equivalent in terms of > "real" work done. (They use a set of benchmarks to determine the ratios). > This neatly solves user abuse problems. The more they abuse the less they > have money to abuse with. Extreme cases of abuse are dealt with immediately. > Overall, there is a subvocal grumble by most of the students about OCS ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ > policy being restrictive, but with limited resources, it is a quite > effective way. Wow does that bring back some bad memories. like working on a final project at 3AM and having some system accounting message pop up telling me that my CPU limit has been reached, see the site admin for an extension (at 8am). some students work long hours on projects not to abuse the system, but to produce quality work, perhaps beyond the expectations of the instructor, but why should an instructor or administrator say "you only need 3 CPU hours for this course, anything beyond that is abusive"?? perhaps i am taking a subject that really interests me, i want to learn, to dig into the subject. perhaps i want to do unix for the rest of my life. why should some person set limits on how much i can learn?? limiting the resources like printing or disk space makes sense, or perhaps prime-time computer access, but there are two users on at 3 AM, who am i hurting or inconveniencing by compiling a few programs to experiment with IPC or terminal modes. that makes my university look all the better by producing programmers who know more about the system than "write a program to balance your checkbook and print a bank statement". to bypass the quotas, i got a job as a tutor/computer operator at Penn State, with guaranteed access to a terminal and no quotas. the quotas issue was one of the driving factors in my transferring to the univ. of maryland. at least there they know what hands-on means. bill. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= William Walker --- uunet!prcrs!wrwalke --- (703) 556-2565 "There's nothing wrong with IBM that a REAL Operating System can't cure." -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
peter@ficc.uu.net (Peter da Silva) (03/08/90)
> >>BTW: Why does UNIX have a cutoff for disk usage (quota) but not for > >>printer usage? > >Because the system won't crash if the printer runs out of paper, > >but it will if it runs out of swap space! > First of all, not all UNIX systems "crash" if they run out of swap space. > Second of all, the disk space usage was for *files*, not for *swap space*. Third, UNIX doesn't have a cutoff for disk usage. Some versions of UNIX do, but it's not universal. Most of the systems that support quotas are based on the BSD branch of the family tree, which was designed for an academic environ- ment. Quotas have some validity there, but are less than useful in the Real World (tm). -- _--_|\ `-_-' Peter da Silva. +1 713 274 5180. <peter@ficc.uu.net>. / \ 'U` \_.--._/ v
guy@auspex.auspex.com (Guy Harris) (03/10/90)
>Most of the systems that support quotas are based on the BSD branch of >the family tree, System V Release 4, for example :-) :-) :-)
peter@ficc.uu.net (Peter da Silva) (03/12/90)
> >Most of the systems that support quotas are based on the BSD branch of > >the family tree, > System V Release 4, for example :-) :-) :-) Oh bummer. Well, when you can go out and buy it maybe. But right now they're still mostly BSD variants. And that's one of the "enhancements" from SunOS, right? So it's still based on BSD. -- _--_|\ `-_-' Peter da Silva. +1 713 274 5180. <peter@ficc.uu.net>. / \ 'U` \_.--._/ v
lws@comm.WANG.COM (Lyle Seaman) (03/14/90)
Gee, all we did was put a cup on the printer and a sign that said:
Laser Printer costs $0.07/page.
Your own paper --> $0.05/page
Worked pretty well.
--
Lyle sendmail.cf under construction, pardon the From:
lws@comm.wang.com (or, uunet!comm.wang.com!lws) (508) 967-2322