steve@altos86.Altos.COM (Steve Scherf) (09/26/90)
> Vadim Antonov > DEMOS, Moscow, USSR > (It is NOT a joke!) A while back you mentioned that you have the source to BSD, etc., over there at the Kurchatov Institute of Atomic Energy. Tell me, do I just not understand the technology protection rules in the U.S., or isn't Unix source barred from the USSR? I suppose you also have source to the DES encryption algorithm? We're not even allowed to ship the C library with the DES algorithm to Europe, so I can hardly believe you are allowed to have the source! Enlighten me. -- Steve Scherf steve@Altos.COM ...!{sun|sco|pyramid|amdahl|uunet}!altos!steve These opinions are solely mine, but others may share them if they like.
sandee@sun16.scri.fsu.edu (Daan Sandee) (09/26/90)
In article <4113@altos86.Altos.COM> steve@Altos.COM (Steve Scherf) writes: > ..... Tell me, do I just not understand >the technology protection rules in the U.S., or isn't Unix source barred from >the USSR? I suppose you also have source to the DES encryption algorithm? >We're not even allowed to ship the C library with the DES algorithm to Europe, >so I can hardly believe you are allowed to have the source! Enlighten me. >-- >Steve Scherf >steve@Altos.COM ...!{sun|sco|pyramid|amdahl|uunet}!altos!steve You are a little confused. U.S. Dept of Commerce regulations forbid the export of the DES encryption algorithm (source, binary, or on paper) outside of the U.S. or Canada. There is no reason to restrict Unix source code. I don't know why you should conclude from Dmitri's posting that he has any source at all, anyway. Unix vendors make up a slightly different release version for international shipment, using different encryption code. [Discussions on the sanity of the regulations please to talk.politics.misc]. Daan Sandee sandee@sun16.scri.fsu.edu Supercomputer Computations Research Institute Florida State University, Tallahassee, FL 32306-4052 (904) 644-7045
avg@hq.demos.su (Vadim G. Antonov) (09/26/90)
In article <4113@altos86.Altos.COM> steve@Altos.COM (Steve Scherf) writes: >A while back you mentioned that you have the source to BSD, etc., over there >at the Kurchatov Institute of Atomic Energy. Tell me, do I just not understand >the technology protection rules in the U.S., or isn't Unix source barred from >the USSR? Of course we're not allowed but we have it. These ...... (I mean COCOM) can not realize that the result of their so called "regulations" is quite simple - practically all software in SU are pirated or re-constructed. Western software & hardware manufacturers could get a big profits selling it in SU if such regulations would never exist. Hmmm... COCOM is the only reason why Soviet electronics industry is still exist :-) Now we can see how Soviet computers disappear and replaced with Western ones. Generally speaking our (American and Soviet) militarians worked together for a long period - they always had contacts and still scare peoples and governmetns in order to get more money. A kind of mafia. Anyway we have no any deals with militarians - KIAE is quite civil institute and runs joint projects with American physicists. Now the main directions of KIAE's work is increasing reliability of nuclear power stations and fundamental research works. >I suppose you also have source to the DES encryption algorithm? Yes. And a lot of books containing the description of this algorithm. (Why they did not forbid exchange of math theories? :-) This information is quite widespread here in Soviet Union. If you like to make information well-known you should declare it as a secret. :-) >We're not even allowed to ship the C library with the DES algorithm to Europe, >so I can hardly believe you are allowed to have the source! Hmmm... We live in the one world. Let's fight against mindless politicans together! (Subject for talks.politics). Anyway if you don't believe me try to compile and run the following program: main() { char *crypt(); printf("%s\n", crypt("Do you believe me?", "XX")); } The result should be: XXcXimKPpq0M. :-) :-) :-) Vadim Antonov DEMOS, Moscow, USSR (It is NOT a joke!)
leendert@cs.vu.nl (Doorn van Leendert) (09/26/90)
avg@hq.demos.su (Vadim G. Antonov) writes:
#main()
#{
# char *crypt();
#
# printf("%s\n", crypt("Do you believe me?", "XX"));
#}
#
# The result should be: XXcXimKPpq0M. :-) :-) :-)
Funny, when I compile and run this on a sun4 (or a sun3 for that matter)
I get:
XX0/imINzSUs.
This makes me wonder: who has got the real thing :-).
Leendert
--
Leendert van Doorn <leendert@cs.vu.nl>
Vrije Universiteit / Dept. of Maths. & Comp. Sc.
Amoeba project / De Boelelaan 1081
1081 HV Amsterdam / The Netherlandskaleb@thyme.jpl.nasa.gov (Kaleb Keithley ) (09/26/90)
In article <1990Sep26.124217.918@hq.demos.su> avg@hq.demos.su (Vadim G. Antonov) writes: >In article <4113@altos86.Altos.COM> steve@Altos.COM (Steve Scherf) writes: >>A while back you mentioned that you have the source to BSD, etc., over there >>at the Kurchatov Institute of Atomic Energy. Tell me, do I just not understand >>the technology protection rules in the U.S., or isn't Unix source barred from >>the USSR? > >main() >{ > char *crypt(); > > printf("%s\n", crypt("Do you believe me?", "XX")); >} > > The result should be: XXcXimKPpq0M. :-) :-) :-) Sorry, wrong. At least on a Sun.
perand@admin.kth.se (Per Andersson) (09/27/90)
In article <4113@altos86.Altos.COM> steve@Altos.COM (Steve Scherf) writes: >> Vadim Antonov >> DEMOS, Moscow, USSR >A while back you mentioned that you have the source to BSD, etc., over there >at the Kurchatov Institute of Atomic Energy. Tell me, do I just not understand >the technology protection rules in the U.S., or isn't Unix source barred from >the USSR? I suppose you also have source to the DES encryption algorithm? >We're not even allowed to ship the C library with the DES algorithm to Europe, >so I can hardly believe you are allowed to have the source! Enlighten me. You are allowed to ship - if you get a licence. Digital has one, so now they are the first to ship Kerberos outside US. But - back to DES - Unix was previously no no, don't know if that has been lifted, but when Berkley shipped 4.2 to Europe, and probably the rest of the world they forgot to take out DES. Rumours say that the lawyers said -'You shouldn't have done that' and Berkeley said -'Oh, you wan't to help us to retrieve the tapes?'. Apart from that there are many many DES implementations not written in the US, and therefore not restricted. Check out the one which was distributed in comp.sources.something, it was carefully set up not to pass the US, which is illegal, but sent both from Australia and Finland I think. Such rubbish. Per -- Per Andersson (perand@admin.kth.se, perand@stacken.kth.se) Trying a new job at Bofors Electronics, still reading news at the Royal Institute of Technology Time, got the time tick tick tickin' in my head - Joe Jackson
jc@mips.COM (J.C. Webber III) (09/27/90)
My answer disagrees with the Russian's. I got XX0/imINzSUs on our Mips machine.
gt0178a@prism.gatech.EDU (BURNS,JIM) (09/27/90)
in article <1990Sep26.124217.918@hq.demos.su>, avg@hq.demos.su (Vadim G. Antonov) says: > Anyway if you don't believe me try to compile and run the following > program: > The result should be: XXcXimKPpq0M. :-) :-) :-) Not quite - I get: XX0/imINzSUs. -- BURNS,JIM Georgia Institute of Technology, Box 30178, Atlanta Georgia, 30332 uucp: ...!{decvax,hplabs,ncar,purdue,rutgers}!gatech!prism!gt0178a Internet: gt0178a@prism.gatech.edu
dmr@alice.att.com (test) (09/27/90)
Most people including me don't understand the regulations well. Here are some facts, but please don't take them as comprehending the rules. 1) The DES algorithm itself as used to encrypt passwords was never subject to embargo and was regularly shipped overseas without special license, and if the source was included, libc/gen/crypt.c was there. 2) crypt(1) and the 'encrypt' entry point in crypt(3)--as opposed to the 'crypt' entry point used for passwords--were removed from overseas distribution. The distinction was fine. Approximately, the one-way character of the password mechanism did not fall within the protected area, whereas the ability of both crypt(1) and the general DES encode-decode to produce secret messages put them in the category of things that needed licences for export. Note that DES was not treated specially here-- crypt(1) is not DES, for example. (Though doubtless any mention of 'DES' served as a flag to the watchful.) 3) The new piece of information is that USL has announced that these two programs are no longer subject to this restriction and USL will no longer need to distinguish 'foreign' and domestic distributions. 4) I know only few details of official source licensing of Unix software outside the US, but it is worth noting that this sort of thing is not all-or-nothing and various considerations apply. In some cases export licenses may be needed, and the question is how easy they are to get. (In the 'crypt' case for example licenses were the crucial thing, and the issue was that although they were not impossible in principle, they were just too much of a pain). Sometimes it is not the US government that is involved. There are several countries whose own laws or policies caused AT&T to avoid source distribution not because of ideology, but they did not recognize the notion of 'trade secret' in a way considered acceptable to AT&T. 5) Two tidbits. For some years now, it has been possible for institutions in the PRC to get a Unix source license, but the real problem for them has been the lack of hard currency to buy them. As a semi-independent fact, I learned that a group in the Chinese Academy of Sciences took a binary distribution of some version of Unix and reverse-engineered the object files so as to make them produce messages and diagnostics in Chinese. I have been told that the fastest way for one of the universities in Finland (Helsinki? Tampere?) to get the BSD 4.x (for some x) distribution was to have their friends in Leningrad send them the tape. I know no more. I trust this is apochryphal, but it's cute. Dennis
muts@fysaj.fys.ruu.nl (Peter Mutsaers /100000) (09/27/90)
leendert@cs.vu.nl (Doorn van Leendert) writes: |avg@hq.demos.su (Vadim G. Antonov) writes: |#main() |#{ |# char *crypt(); |# |# printf("%s\n", crypt("Do you believe me?", "XX")); |#} |# |# The result should be: XXcXimKPpq0M. :-) :-) :-) |Funny, when I compile and run this on a sun4 (or a sun3 for that matter) |I get: | XX0/imINzSUs. |This makes me wonder: who has got the real thing :-). |Leendert Vadim does, grrrrr. I had exactly the same result. I am in Europe too, we have the modified version of the crypt routine because, as mentioned, the real version may not be exported outside of the US. Ridiculous isn't it? >-- >Leendert van Doorn <leendert@cs.vu.nl> >Vrije Universiteit / Dept. of Maths. & Comp. Sc. >Amoeba project / De Boelelaan 1081 >1081 HV Amsterdam / The Netherlands -- Peter Mutsaers email: muts@fysaj.fys.ruu.nl Rijksuniversiteit Utrecht nmutsaer@ruunsa.fys.ruu.nl Princetonplein 5 tel: (+31)-(0)30-533880 3584 CG Utrecht, Netherlands
muts@fysaj.fys.ruu.nl (Peter Mutsaers /100000) (09/27/90)
gt0178a@prism.gatech.EDU (BURNS,JIM) writes: >in article <1990Sep26.124217.918@hq.demos.su>, avg@hq.demos.su (Vadim G. Antonov) says: >> Anyway if you don't believe me try to compile and run the following >> program: >> The result should be: XXcXimKPpq0M. :-) :-) :-) >Not quite - I get: >XX0/imINzSUs. I got the same result on our IBM, and the manual explicitly says they did not include the original DES program because it is not allowed. It seems that now also in the US a slightly modified version is used in order to be compatible with the rest of the world? Then only in the SU they use the real DES algorithm. -:) -- Peter Mutsaers email: muts@fysaj.fys.ruu.nl Rijksuniversiteit Utrecht nmutsaer@ruunsa.fys.ruu.nl Princetonplein 5 tel: (+31)-(0)30-533880 3584 CG Utrecht, Netherlands
jc@atcmp.nl (Jan Christiaan van Winkel) (09/27/90)
> said -'Oh, you wan't to help us to retrieve the tapes?'. Apart from that there > are many many DES implementations not written in the US, and therefore not > restricted. Check out the one which was distributed in comp.sources.something, > it was carefully set up not to pass the US, which is illegal, but sent both > from Australia and Finland I think. Such rubbish. And don't forget the implementation (in PASCAL) of DES in Andrew S. Tanenbaum's book 'Computer Networks'! Would it be allowed to bring a copy of it into the States and then back out again? I don't think so. Everyone seems to have it, but it is not allowed to transport it via the USA. I wonder - how much paperwork is done in vain for this silly DES rule? -- ___ __ ____________________________________________________________________ |/ \ Jan Christiaan van Winkel Tel: +31 80 566880 jc@atcmp.nl | AT Computing P.O. Box 1428 6501 BK Nijmegen The Netherlands __/ \__/ ____________________________________________________________________
a20@nikhefh.nikhef.nl (Marten Terpstra) (09/27/90)
In article <1585@ruunsa.fys.ruu.nl> muts@fysaj.fys.ruu.nl (Peter Mutsaers /100000) writes: > >>Not quite - I get: > >>XX0/imINzSUs. > >I got the same result on our IBM, and the manual explicitly says they did >not include the original DES program because it is not allowed. Same here, altough in Europe again. (GOULD/ENCORE NP1 with UTX3.2 = BSD4.3) Marten -- Marten Terpstra National Institute for Nuclear Internet : terpstra@nikhef.nl and High Energy Physics Oldie-net: {....}mcsun!nikhefh!terpstra (NIKHEF-H), PO Box 41882, 1009 DB Phone : +31 20 592 5102 Amsterdam, The Netherlands
wsinpdb@svin02.info.win.tue.nl (Paul de Bra) (09/27/90)
>We're not even allowed to ship the C library with the DES algorithm to Europe, >so I can hardly believe you are allowed to have the source! Enlighten me. I think there are few European sites who do not have the DES part of the C-library. These old export rules really make very little sense in a world with has e-mail. (Getting accross the ocean with a floppy is very easy too.) However, I must admit that the russians are a bit open about the software they probably "found" somewhere and copied illegaly... Paul.
dylan@ibmpcug.co.uk (Matthew Farwell) (09/27/90)
In article <7745@star.cs.vu.nl> leendert@cs.vu.nl (Doorn van Leendert) writes: >avg@hq.demos.su (Vadim G. Antonov) writes: ># The result should be: XXcXimKPpq0M. :-) :-) :-) >Funny, when I compile and run this on a sun4 (or a sun3 for that matter) >I get: > > XX0/imINzSUs. At a guess I'd say the Soviets (wonder how long before that gets changed) had the correct implementation of DES. Doesn't unix run a slightly altered version of DES? Dylan. -- Matthew J Farwell | Email: dylan@ibmpcug.co.uk The IBM PC User Group, PO Box 360,| ...!uunet!ukc!ibmpcug!dylan Harrow HA1 4LQ England | CONNECT - Usenet Access in the UK!! Phone: +44 81-863-1191 | Sun? Don't they make coffee machines?
jim@lsuc.on.ca (Jim Mercer) (09/27/90)
In article <807@sun13.scri.fsu.edu> sandee@sun16.scri.fsu.edu (Daan Sandee) writes: >You are a little confused. U.S. Dept of Commerce regulations forbid the >export of the DES encryption algorithm (source, binary, or on paper) outside >of the U.S. or Canada. There is no reason to restrict Unix source code. ^^^^^^ we just recieved our Sys V source license which basically says that there is a US domestic release and an "international" release. we, in Canada, are barred from DES as well. with some minor paper work we could around it. but, why bother? the source is available all over. -- [ Jim Mercer jim@lsuc.On.Ca || ...!uunet!attcan!lsuc!jim +1 416 947-5258 ] [ Systems Facilitator - Law Society of Upper Canada, Toronto, Ontario, CANADA ] [ Standards are great. They give non-conformists something to not conform to. ] [ The opinions expressed here may or may not be those of my employer ]
avg@hq.demos.su (Vadim G. Antonov) (09/27/90)
>> Anyway if you don't believe me try to compile and run the following >> program: > >> The result should be: XXcXimKPpq0M. :-) :-) :-) Hmmm... It seems to me there are a whole lot of DES versions floating around. Secrecy paranoya yielded the fruits: another point of incompatibility in Unixes. (If you like to use crypt in net programs you should attach your own version of crypt instead of system provided one). (The comment from the beginning of crypt.c I have: /* * This program implements the * Proposed Federal Information Processing * Data Encryption Standard. * See Federal Register, March 17, 1975 (40FR12134) */ Hey, agents! Are you listening? :-) Vadim Antonov DEMOS, Moscow, USSR (It is NOT a joke!)
pim@cti-software.nl (Pim Zandbergen) (09/28/90)
>|# The result should be: XXcXimKPpq0M. :-) :-) :-) >|Funny, when I compile and run this on a sun4 (or a sun3 for that matter) >|I get: >| XX0/imINzSUs. >|This makes me wonder: who has got the real thing :-). >|Leendert >Vadim does, grrrrr. I had exactly the same result. I am in Europe too, >we have the modified version of the crypt routine because, as mentioned, >the real version may not be exported outside of the US. >Ridiculous isn't it? I have both the international and the (USA) domestic versions of the crypt library on our System V/386 machine and they both yield XX0/imINzSUs. The manual states the only difference between the libraries is that decryption is not available in the international version. What's the last word on this subject? -- Pim Zandbergen domain : pim@cti-software.nl CTI Software BV uucp : uunet!mcsun!hp4nl!ctisbv!pim Laan Copes van Cattenburch 70 phone : +31 70 3542302 2585 GD The Hague, The Netherlands fax : +31 70 3512837
staff@cadlab.sublink.ORG (Alex Martelli) (09/28/90)
...what should crypt("Do you believe me?", "XX") return?...
In URSS:
>|# The result should be: XXcXimKPpq0M. :-) :-) :-)
In Europe (and USA?!?):
>| XX0/imINzSUs.
...
>the real version may not be exported outside of the US.
>Ridiculous isn't it?
Particularly as our non-URSS version seems to spell out something
like "nothing, I'm in SU"! Jung or R.A.Wilson would have enjoyed
this "synchronic coincidence"...
--
Alex Martelli - CAD.LAB s.p.a., v. Stalingrado 45, Bologna, Italia
Email: (work:) staff@cadlab.sublink.org, (home:) alex@am.sublink.org
Phone: (work:) ++39 (51) 371099, (home:) ++39 (51) 250434;
Fax: ++39 (51) 366964 (work only; any time of day or night).pgd@bbt.se (P.Garbha) (09/28/90)
In article <1990Sep27.165746.2035@hq.demos.su> avg@hq.demos.su (Vadim G. Antonov) writes: >>> Anyway if you don't believe me try to compile and run the following >>> program: >> >>> The result should be: XXcXimKPpq0M. :-) :-) :-) > > Hmmm... It seems to me there are a whole lot of DES versions > floating around. Secrecy paranoya yielded the fruits: another > point of incompatibility in Unixes. (If you like to use > crypt in net programs you should attach your own version of crypt > instead of system provided one). > > (The comment from the beginning of crypt.c I have: > >/* > * This program implements the > * Proposed Federal Information Processing > * Data Encryption Standard. > * See Federal Register, March 17, 1975 (40FR12134) > */ Hey, i have the same comments, but I don't get the same result. If I compile with cc I get: XX0/imINzSUs. If I compile with gcc I get: XX3FF./IFI/II I guess that means that I have the modified version, but whoever modified it did not leave any comments about it. Does anyone know what modifications have been done? For different reasons i had to replace the login program. Unfortunately the original (Xenix) login program is using another encryption algorithm (maybe the original DES?), so now some utilities does not work. Like su, single-user-login, passwd, etc. And I don't have sources for those programs. Of course that increases the safety -- you cannot "su root" any more :-)
dylan@ibmpcug.co.uk (Matthew Farwell) (09/28/90)
In article <1990Sep27.220758.1185@cti-software.nl> pim@cti-software.nl (Pim Zandbergen) writes: >>|# The result should be: XXcXimKPpq0M. :-) :-) :-) >>|Funny, when I compile and run this on a sun4 (or a sun3 for that matter) >>|I get: >>| XX0/imINzSUs. >>|This makes me wonder: who has got the real thing :-). > >>Vadim does, grrrrr. I had exactly the same result. I am in Europe too, >>we have the modified version of the crypt routine because, as mentioned, >>the real version may not be exported outside of the US. >>Ridiculous isn't it? > >I have both the international and the (USA) domestic versions of >the crypt library on our System V/386 machine and they both >yield XX0/imINzSUs. > >The manual states the only difference between the libraries >is that decryption is not available in the international version. >What's the last word on this subject? The last word is that the crypt that unix runs isn't DES. Its a modified form of DES. What this means, effectively is that people can't build a DES chip to try and crack passwords for unixen derived from the US, but they can for the soviet one. Dylan. -- Matthew J Farwell | Email: dylan@ibmpcug.co.uk The IBM PC User Group, PO Box 360,| ...!uunet!ukc!ibmpcug!dylan Harrow HA1 4LQ England | CONNECT - Usenet Access in the UK!! Phone: +44 81-863-1191 | Sun? Don't they make coffee machines?
tim@delluk.uucp (Tim Wright) (09/28/90)
In <1990Sep27.220758.1185@cti-software.nl> pim@cti-software.nl (Pim Zandbergen) writes: >>|# The result should be: XXcXimKPpq0M. :-) :-) :-) >>|Funny, when I compile and run this on a sun4 (or a sun3 for that matter) >>|I get: >>| XX0/imINzSUs. >>|This makes me wonder: who has got the real thing :-). >>|Leendert >>Vadim does, grrrrr. I had exactly the same result. I am in Europe too, >>we have the modified version of the crypt routine because, as mentioned, >>the real version may not be exported outside of the US. >>Ridiculous isn't it? >I have both the international and the (USA) domestic versions of >the crypt library on our System V/386 machine and they both >yield XX0/imINzSUs. >The manual states the only difference between the libraries >is that decryption is not available in the international version. >What's the last word on this subject? Well I don't know about the last word, but the C comment he posted is most certainly from crypt.c as contained in BSD 4.1. Whether this is the same as in v7 I do not know, nor do I know how and when things changed. The only thing I do know is the the NSA (or whoever was responsible for not allowing export of the DES code), are the biggest load of idiots that I have ever had the misfortune to know of. As was pointed out, the standard was published, it's been re-implemented N times, things travel by Email or floppy etc. Why don't they just admit defeat and let it be exported ?!? It has unpleasant implications for such things as secure NFS, if not - it's hard to run if you can't have a DES chip in your machine :-( :-( Tim -- Tim Wright, Dell Computer Corp. (UK) | Email address Dell Computer Corp. (UK), Bracknell | Domain: tim@dell.co.uk Tel: +44-344-860456 | Uucp: ...!ukc!delluk!tim "What's the problem? You've got an IQ of six thousand, haven't you?"
trt@rti.rti.org (Thomas Truscott) (09/29/90)
Just a thought: if your version of crypt.c has line that declares "L" and "R" to be arrays of size 32, your version is depending on L and R being allocated adjacent to each other. This is an ancient bug that no one ever bothers to fix. Try instead: char L[64]; #define R (L+32) That might fix things. Then again, maybe not. Tom Truscott
avg@hq.demos.su (Vadim G. Antonov) (09/29/90)
In article <4108@rtifs1.UUCP> trt@rti.rti.org (Thomas Truscott) writes: >Just a thought: if your version of crypt.c has line >that declares "L" and "R" to be arrays of size 32, >your version is depending on L and R being allocated >adjacent to each other. This is an ancient bug that >no one ever bothers to fix. > >Try instead: > static char L[64]; ^^^^^^ - my $0.02, avg > #define R (L+32) I've done it; and it works! The new test result is: XX0/imINzSUs. (As you can see this bug splitted world into two parts :-) Thank you, Tom! Vadim Antonov DEMOS, Moscow, USSR (It is NOT a joke!)
thad@cup.portal.com (Thad P Floryan) (09/29/90)
Regarding the export of DES technology, here's something to curl the hair on your toes: One product I was contemplating to manufacture needed the DES algorithm. So I called the local Motorola Sales Office and asked for some samples (as I do for other potential products). When I arrived at my office the next day, sitting on my desk were several tubes of chips (MC6859, and other goodies) and about 30 pounds of docs. Affixed to the tube containing the MC6859 chips (the hardware implementation of DES) was a notice boldly proclaiming (paraphrased (it's been a few years)): ``These chips may not be exported without prior written authorization from the Office of Munitions Control of the Department of State.'' And flipping the pretty purple ceramic chips with gold leads upside down reveals the country of manufacture (or, at least, package encapsulation): ``MALAYSIA'' Presumably the silicon was fabricated in Texas, then shipped to Malaysia for entombment, then returned to the USA, then barred from further export. Interesting, to say the least! :-) Thad Floryan [ thad@cup.portal.com (OR) ..!sun!portal!cup.portal.com!thad ]
thad@cup.portal.com (Thad P Floryan) (09/29/90)
avg@hq.demos.su (Vadim G. Antonov) in <1990Sep26.124217.918@hq.demos.su> posted a short program using "crypt()" and claimed: ``The result should be: XXcXimKPpq0M. :-) :-) :-) '' Those of us running the program on USA-based UNIX systems receive instead the different results: ``XX0/imINzSUs'' Doesn't anyone get it, and the reason for Vadim's smiley faces? Look at the USA-results again, this time with spacing added: XX0/ im IN z SU s I interpret that to read: XX0/ "love and kisses" (using "0" for "O" as in Biff's C0WABUNGA) im I'm IN in z "the" SU Soviet Union Pretty clever if you ask me! I suppose Vadim's postings bring new meaning to the joke with which I often open UNIX meetings: ``MS-DOS-vadanya'' :-) Thad Floryan [ thad@cup.portal.com (OR) ..!sun!portal!cup.portal.com!thad ]
nreadwin@micrognosis.co.uk (Neil Readwin) (09/29/90)
In article <34374@cup.portal.com>, thad@cup.portal.com (Thad P Floryan) writes: |> [Vadim Antonov] posted a short program using "crypt()" and claimed: |> |> ``The result should be: XXcXimKPpq0M. :-) :-) :-) '' |> USA-based UNIX systems [get] ``XX0/imINzSUs'' [ which means ] |> "love and kisses" I'm in "the" Soviet Union |> Pretty clever if you ask me! Yeah, I guess finding a decent plaintext for an arbitrary crypt'ed ciphertext is quite a neat hack. Disclaimer: 818 Phone: +44 71 528 8282 E-mail: nreadwin@micrognosis.co.uk W Westfield: Abstractions of hammers aren't very good at hitting real nails
gwyn@smoke.BRL.MIL (Doug Gwyn) (09/30/90)
In article <807@sun13.scri.fsu.edu> sandee@sun16.scri.fsu.edu (Daan Sandee) writes: >You are a little confused. U.S. Dept of Commerce regulations forbid the >export of the DES encryption algorithm (source, binary, or on paper) outside >of the U.S. or Canada. There is no reason to restrict Unix source code. That's not correct, either. You can obtain export licenses for the DES part of UNIX, but on an individual case basis rather than a blanket license. AT&T deemed this not worth the trouble. In general, "technology transfer" IS a concern, which is why, for example, Thompson & Condon's BELLE was not allowed to be shipped to Moscow for the international chess tournament. I don't know whether or not UNIX is still on the restricted list for shipping to communist-bloc countries.
gwyn@smoke.BRL.MIL (Doug Gwyn) (09/30/90)
In article <1584@ruunsa.fys.ruu.nl> muts@fysaj.fys.ruu.nl (Peter Mutsaers /100000) writes: >leendert@cs.vu.nl (Doorn van Leendert) writes: >|avg@hq.demos.su (Vadim G. Antonov) writes: >|# The result should be: XXcXimKPpq0M. :-) :-) :-) >| XX0/imINzSUs. >|This makes me wonder: who has got the real thing :-). >Vadim does, grrrrr. I had exactly the same result. I am in Europe too, ... No, the "real" crypt() produces XX0/imINzSUs. The "international version" modification, last I heard, consisted simply in disabling the decryption portion of the library function. Passwords should encrypt to the same ciphertext in both versions.
gwyn@smoke.BRL.MIL (Doug Gwyn) (09/30/90)
In article <662@atcmpe.atcmp.nl> jc@atcmp.nl (Jan Christiaan van Winkel) writes: >I wonder - how much paperwork is done in vain for this silly DES rule? It's not simply a "silly DES rule". The situation is that a number of classes of items require explicit license in order to be exported. This is known as "export controls". Cryptographic systems are among those specifically identified as requiring export licenses. DES is considered a cryptographic system. Licensing therefore is required, and in fact would normally be granted upon request. I don't say that any of this is a good idea, but if you want to complain about it you first need to understand the situation.
pgd@bbt.se (P.Garbha) (09/30/90)
In article <4108@rtifs1.UUCP> trt@rti.rti.org (Thomas Truscott) writes: > >Just a thought: if your version of crypt.c has line >that declares "L" and "R" to be arrays of size 32, >your version is depending on L and R being allocated >adjacent to each other. This is an ancient bug that >no one ever bothers to fix. > >Try instead: > char L[64]; > #define R (L+32) >That might fix things. Then again, maybe not. > > Tom Truscott YES!! That fixes the bug so that crypt is compilable with gcc for an i386
aris@tabbs.UUCP (Aris Stathakis) (10/01/90)
In article <7745@star.cs.vu.nl> leendert@cs.vu.nl (Doorn van Leendert) writes: >avg@hq.demos.su (Vadim G. Antonov) writes: > >#main() >#{ ># char *crypt(); ># ># printf("%s\n", crypt("Do you believe me?", "XX")); >#} ># ># The result should be: XXcXimKPpq0M. :-) :-) :-) > >Funny, when I compile and run this on a sun4 (or a sun3 for that matter) >I get: > > XX0/imINzSUs. I get this result too under SCO Xenix. Come to think of it, i'm not in the USA either :-) Aris -- Aris Stathakis | Bang: ..!uunet!ddsw1!olsa99!tabbs!aris or aris@tabbs.UUCP - - - Disco is to music what Etch-A-Sketch is to art. -
andrew@alice.att.com (Andrew Hume) (10/01/90)
i recently received an internal memo to the effect that crypt has just been allowed to be exported almost everywhere with a normal export license (north korea, and some other weird countries are excepted). i expect this applies to all exporters of unix (eventually) but ask your lawyer to ask teh state dept fer sure.
thomas@uppsala.telesoft.se (Thomas Tornblom) (10/01/90)
In article <11394@alice.att.com> dmr@alice.att.com (test) writes:
2) crypt(1) and the 'encrypt' entry point in crypt(3)--as opposed
to the 'crypt' entry point used for passwords--were removed
from overseas distribution. The distinction was fine. Approximately,
the one-way character of the password mechanism did not fall within
the protected area, whereas the ability of both crypt(1) and
the general DES encode-decode to produce secret messages put
them in the category of things that needed licences for export.
Note that DES was not treated specially here-- crypt(1) is not
DES, for example. (Though doubtless any mention of 'DES'
served as a flag to the watchful.)
Hi Dennis!
crypt(1) has nothing to do with DES, it is a "one-rotor machine designed
along the lines of the German Enigma". I don't think DES is or was subject
to any export restrictions.
At least in the man pages on our machines the only thing I could find that
was restricted was crypt(1).
Thomas
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Snail mail: Telesoft Uppsala AB Phone: +46 18 189406
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S - 751 42 Uppsala, Swedenrhealey@digibd.com (Rob Healey) (10/01/90)
In article <4113@altos86.Altos.COM> steve@Altos.COM (Steve Scherf) writes: >> Vadim Antonov >> DEMOS, Moscow, USSR >> (It is NOT a joke!) >A while back you mentioned that you have the source to BSD, etc., over there >at the Kurchatov Institute of Atomic Energy. Tell me, do I just not understand >the technology protection rules in the U.S., or isn't Unix source barred from >the USSR? I suppose you also have source to the DES encryption algorithm? >We're not even allowed to ship the C library with the DES algorithm to Europe, >so I can hardly believe you are allowed to have the source! Enlighten me. One would guess that Soviet copywrite law is more lax than other countrys. Also, how are you going to prevent some arbitrary person in the US from walking into a computer store, getting a maxed out 486 with all the hardware and software fixin's and walk out the door? Can you say KGB operatives? My guess is that they had some of their operatives get friendly with BSD grad students... Obviously the Soviets have to improve their respect of other country's copywrite law before they can be taken seriously in the software biz. I would assume this also goes in the patent relm for hardware. By the way, why do you think the NSA stopped using DES so long ago... -Rob Speaking for self, not company.
gwyn@smoke.BRL.MIL (Doug Gwyn) (10/02/90)
In article <1990Oct1.165942.21663@digibd.com> rhealey@digibd.com (Rob Healey) writes: > By the way, why do you think the NSA stopped using DES so long ago... We're breathlessly awaiting the answer to this riddle. (Or is it a trick question? Have you stopped beating your wife?)
kdq@demott.COM (Kevin D. Quitt) (10/02/90)
From UNIX today 1-Oct-90, page 65:
Unix System Laboratories Europe said that the Department of COmmerce has
cleared for export to Eastern European countries licenses for Unix
System V source code.
The company also said that it has been successful in removing the
requirement for a separate international version of the UNIX System V
source code without the password security feature. In the future, a
single Unix System V will be available in the United States and abroad.
....
--
_
Kevin D. Quitt demott!kdq kdq@demott.com
DeMott Electronics Co. 14707 Keswick St. Van Nuys, CA 91405-1266
VOICE (818) 988-4975 FAX (818) 997-1190 MODEM (818) 997-4496 PEP last
96.37% of all statistics are made up.alain@elevia.UUCP (W.A.Simon) (10/05/90)
In <632@demott.COM>, kdq@demott.COM (Kevin D. Quitt) says: > Unix System Laboratories Europe said that the Department of COmmerce has > [ ... ] > source code without the password security feature. In the future, a > single Unix System V will be available in the United States and abroad. Specially since it was like closing the barn door after the horse had fled... and a major pain for most of us, who did not seserve being treated like this (after all we are NATO allies!). -- Alain Home+Office: (514) 934 6320 UUCP: alain@elevia.UUCP