schoet@ernie.Berkeley.EDU.UUCP (04/01/87)
Supposing one's site did have source licenses and one had signed non-disclosure agreements, how would one get ahold of this book? Steve Schoettler ARPA: schoet@ernie.Berkeley.EDU UUCP: ucbvax!ernie!schoet
phil@amd.UUCP (04/03/87)
In article <18114@ucbvax.BERKELEY.EDU> schoet@ernie.Berkeley.EDU.UUCP (Steve Schoettler) writes: > > Supposing one's site did have source licenses and one had signed >non-disclosure agreements, how would one get ahold of this book? Would someone who has seen both the Lions book and the Bach book care to comment on whether there is any reason to bother getting the former now that the latter is available? -- The purpose of ham radio is so people can talk about antennas. Phil Ngai (408) 749-5720 UUCP: {decwrl,ihnp4,allegra}!amdcad!phil ARPA: amdcad!phil@decwrl.ARPA
philip@axis.UUCP (04/05/87)
In article <3852@amd.UUCP>, phil@amd.UUCP writes: > In article <18114@ucbvax.BERKELEY.EDU> schoet@ernie.Berkeley.EDU.UUCP (Steve Schoettler) writes: > > > > Supposing one's site did have source licenses and one had signed > >non-disclosure agreements, how would one get ahold of this book? > > Would someone who has seen both the Lions book and the Bach book care > to comment on whether there is any reason to bother getting the former > now that the latter is available? The distribution of the John Lyons book was taken over by Western Electric (AT&T). It never appeared on any of their publication lists, but was available if you asked for it. I don't know if it is still available. It is basically a complete source listing of V6 UNIX (kernel), with an acompanying description of how it works - on a line by line basis. It is probably still a good introduction to the UNIX kernel, but (obviously) at least a V6 source licence would be required to go with it. If you have a S5 source, then the book by Maurice Bach is a much better bet. The algorithms he describes are those actually in current use, wheras the internals of UNIX have changed considerably since V6. A BIG plus for the Bach book is that no source licence is required. Philip
john@frog.UUCP (04/06/87)
> Would someone who has seen both the Lions book and the Bach book care > to comment on whether there is any reason to bother getting the former > now that the latter is available? > -- > The purpose of ham radio is so people can talk about antennas. > Phil Ngai (408) 749-5720 Sure. The Bach book is general, trying more to discuss Operating Systems from the standpoint of UNIX; there are some features of UNIX that aren't covered. The Lions book, because it includes the source code, discusses essentially everything about Version 6 UNIX, from the standpoint of how to implement something. The MINIX book is a good, modern replacement for the Lions book (if it is even available). There is definitely a place in the world for both approaches (at least, there is a place in *my* bookshelves for both! :-). -- John Woods, Charles River Data Systems, Framingham MA, (617) 626-1101 ...!decvax!frog!john, ...!mit-eddie!jfw, jfw%mit-ccc@MIT-XX.ARPA "Happiness is the planet Earth in your rear-view mirror." - Sam Hurt, in "Eyebeam, Therefore I Am"
brunner@sri-spam.UUCP (04/07/87)
John's book is quite useful to me now, and has been so for several years. It has a very fine cross reference, describes an interesting and well understood implementation, and fits in a flat briefcase. It is complete. Bach's book too is quite useful, written as a text book. It assumes that its readers do have access to SysV sources. This costs money, as someone has remarked re: the price of John's book. There is no equivalent cross listing or cross reference of internals. Someone reading this list asked for a comparison from readers of both, and one good one has been posted. I prefer John's, as everything that I can read in Bach's has appeared elsewhere in the literature. I sent six folks here to a Sun-er taught course at UCSC extension this term, it uses Bach's book and they seem well served by it at the level of the course - intro.
pdg@ihdev.UUCP (04/07/87)
In article <1306@frog.UUCP> john@frog.UUCP (John Woods, Software) writes: >The MINIX book is a good, modern replacement for the Lions book (if it is >even available). There is definitely a place in the world for both >approaches (at least, there is a place in *my* bookshelves for both! :-). I must disagree here (with the first statement). As John mentioned in his first paragraph (not quoted here) the Lions Book is a complete V6 source to UNIX. The MINIX book is a text, which shows how *MINIX* is implemented. I see different niches for both (I have both, plus Bach and Comer (XINU)). The Lions book is unparalleled for teaching UNIX internals (except maybe Bell Labs internal classes :-), but MINIX does not come close because MINIX is not even close to UNIX in *implementation*. A quote from page xiv of the MINIX book... "On the inside, however, the system is completely new". If your purpose is to learn UNIX internals, the MINIX book is not for you and the Lions document is perfect (though outdated - but as is Bach too ( no mention of RFS, FSS, FSS (no not redundant, they stand for different things :-), shared libraries, etc)), and Bach is not too bad. If your purpose is to learn Operating Systems Concepts, The MINIX book is a good case-example of an OS design, as is Bachs book and Comers. I would like to recommend "An introduction to Operating Systems" by Harvey Deitel as a more general concept book (although the case-history studies are very incomplete). I would agree with John's last sentence, and would like to expand by saying that OS study is one area where you can *never* have enough books. -- Paul Guthrie ihnp4!ihdev!pdg This Brain left intentionally blank.