wagner@iaoobelix.UUCP (07/06/87)
Bob, why do you think there are not too many European sites on USENET.
I believe this is a strong prejudice! The procedure you suggest
(submission to rutgers!aramis.rutgers.edu!webber and (well, almost)
automatic resubmission to the appropriate newsgroup sounds good.
However, point 3 of the list of details may lead to the strange effect
that postings submitted from Europe would never reach European sites
again (right?). I suggest to leave it up to the postings' authors
whether "Distribution: usa" or "Distribution: world" is assumed, or at
least let it depend on the status of the group one is posting to.
I don't know how other people on the net feel about this issue, so I'd
like to hear of other opinions.
Juergen Wagner, USENET: ...seismo!unido!iaoobel!wagner
("Gandalf") or ...!pyramid!iaoobel!wagner
Mail: Juergen Wagner
Fraunhofer-Institut IAO
Rosenbergstr. 28
D-7000 Stuttgart 1
Federal Republic of Germany
Phone: + 49 711 6648-205webber@brandx.rutgers.edu.UUCP (07/09/87)
In article <7200004@iaoobelix.UUCP>, wagner@iaoobelix.UUCP writes: > > Bob, why do you think there are not too many European sites on USENET. > I believe this is a strong prejudice! The procedure you suggest ... First, the procedure you went onto refer to is no longer operative, since weemba@berkeley.edu volunteered to be net ombudsman within 24 hours of the posting you refer to, thus activating the clause that said I was looking for volunteers to take over the task. After all, who would ever take me seriously if I was seen publically turning down a volunteer; some things just aren't done :-) From my experience trying to get a sources mailing list together, I quickly found out that the gateways out of the U.S. to places like Europe and Austrailia are downright paranoid about communications cost. For all practical purposes, they are playing by a different set of rules than the portion of Usenet that is inside the United States (and portions of Canada). All of these nets are referred to collectively as Internet. Once you step back from that and try and distinquish smaller entities, it seems to me as logical to split off Europe and Austrailia as it does to split off Arpanet (to which it is actually easier to get things into from an economic point of view). I am aware that this is a view that is different from the one derived from the history of various net protocols, but now that the junctures between nets are becoming less visible to users, I think it is time to look at things more in terms of where there is a connected region of sites playing by basically the same choices as far as group propagation and traffic control is concerned. Taken to its logical extreme, this would show a very interesting structure of communications. ---- BOB (webber@aramis.rutgers.edu ; rutgers!aramis.rutgers.edu!webber)
roger@celtics.UUCP (Roger B.A. Klorese) (07/17/87)
In article <289@brandx.rutgers.edu> webber@brandx.rutgers.edu (Webber) writes: >From my experience trying to get a sources mailing list together, I >quickly found out that the gateways out of the U.S. to places like >Europe and Austrailia are downright paranoid about communications cost. If you consider the fact that they have to pay for them, rather than getting gifdts from your and my tax money, to be "downright paranoid", then you are right, they're downright paranoid. Sane people think they're realistic. >For all practical purposes, they are playing by a different set of rules >than the portion of Usenet that is inside the United States (and portions >of Canada). All of these nets are referred to collectively as Internet. "The portion of Usenet that is inside the United States (and portions of Canada)" is NOT the Internet, nor is the collection of those systems and the aforementioned European and Australian nodes. My system shares UUCP connections with its news feeds. Since it carries news, it is a Usenet site. It is NOT an Internet site, as it has no TCP/IP based connections with the network coordinated by the NIC. (That network is the Internet.) -- ///==\\ (No disclaimer - nobody's listening anyway.) /// Roger B.A. Klorese, CELERITY (Northeast Area) \\\ 40 Speen St., Framingham, MA 01701 +1 617 872-1552 \\\==// celtics!roger@seismo.CSS.GOV - seismo!celtics!roger
paul%tut.cis.ohio-state.edu@osu-eddie.UUCP (Paul Placeway) (07/18/87)
In article <1619@celtics.UUCP> roger@celtics.UUCP (Roger B.A. Klorese) writes: >In article <289@brandx.rutgers.edu> webber@brandx.rutgers.edu (Webber) writes: >>For all practical purposes, they are playing by a different set of rules >>than the portion of Usenet that is inside the United States (and portions >>of Canada). All of these nets are referred to collectively as Internet. > >"The portion of Usenet that is inside the United States (and portions of >Canada)" is NOT the Internet, nor is the collection of those systems and >the aforementioned European and Australian nodes. My system shares UUCP >connections with its news feeds. Since it carries news, it is a Usenet >site. It is NOT an Internet site, as it has no TCP/IP based connections >with the network coordinated by the NIC. (That network is the Internet.) Quite true. The Internet is coordinated by the NIC, Period. osu-eddie runs uucp, receives, stores, forwards, and sends news; therefore it is a Usenet site. Eddie is also on CSNet (as ohio-state.arpa), we can originate and receive TCP/IP sockets, etc. Since we are on CSNet, using Allnet X25, we have to pay for all CSNet communication in or out, per packet. Do you think that we will forward mail between Usenet and ARPA? If you think that we will, you are crazy. What I am saying is this: Mr. Webber, if you want to pay for the international communication costs for your sources mailing list (a truly BAD idea, from a communication efficiency viewpoint), or a news group (such as alt.sources), fine. Go right ahead, you will be doing a service to many people. If you aren't, then STOP GRIPING ABOUT IT TO THE REST OF THE NET! Tired of hearing the same old trash over and over and over and... -=- -- Paul Placeway Department of Computer and Information Science SNail: The Ohio State University 2036 Neil Ave. Columbus OH USA 43210-1277 ARPA: paul@ohio-state.{arpa,csnet} (soon): paul@tut.cis.ohio-state.edu UUCP: ...!cbosgd!osu-eddie!paul