haugj@pigs.UUCP (Joe Bob Willie) (08/19/88)
In article <478@c10sd1.StPaul.NCR.COM> johnson@c10sd1.StPaul.NCR.COM (Wayne D. T. Johnson) writes: >OK, how about forming a list of these systems and all the information on >how to access them via UUCP. ... >If there is no list, I would ask anyone who has a working connection to >one of these, (please, no rumors about someone who knows someone, who knows...) >please EMAIL the pertinate info and I will compile and post these. some months ago bill wisner tried to create a newsgroup for the posting of archive site information. the vote failed miserably due to lack of interest. at the suggestion of certain backbone members, i have been posting my site's information on a regular basis. however, few other sites have followed suit and as a result there is still no easy way to locate a sources archive. how about creating a newsgroup for the sole purpose of posting archive information to? i am suggesting we create a new group, comp.sources.archives for the posting of archive site information. it can be an unmoderated group to make it easier for people to update their sites information, and discuss problems with using various archive sites. lets have two weeks discussion, which will hopefully be followed by a vote. i'll collect the votes if it ever gets to that point. -- jfh@rpp386.uucp (The Beach Bum at The Big "D" Home for Wayward Hackers) "Never attribute to malice what is adequately explained by stupidity" -- Hanlon's Razor
wilkes@mips.COM (John Wilkes) (08/20/88)
I like the idea. How about local groups? (e.g., ba.sources.archives for the
SF Bay area.)
-wilkes
--
-- work: {decwrl ames pyramid prls}!mips!wilkes -OR- wilkes@mips.comwoods@gpu.utcs.toronto.edu (Greg Woods) (08/20/88)
In article <362@pigs.UUCP> haugj@pigs.UUCP (Joe Bob Willie) writes: >[.... etc. ...] >how about creating a newsgroup for the sole purpose of posting archive >information to? i am suggesting we create a new group, comp.sources.archives >for the posting of archive site information. it can be an unmoderated >group to make it easier for people to update their sites information, >and discuss problems with using various archive sites. I like the un-moderated bit. Then I can post periodic listings from /usr/local/src, cause even though I don't actally "archive" the groups as such, I do collect fairly massive amounts of source (15 Mb online, currently). I wouldn't mind opening up my site for local distribution. I also provide an added benefit: Most of the stuff I have is in working condition. (Torontonians, take note.) I've always wanted to be able to get stuff from the archives, but I don't like paying long-distace phone bills, and the local site's around here either don't keep their working stuff up to date, or, they don't care to open up for distribution. -- Greg Woods. UUCP: utgpu!woods, utgpu!{ontmoh, ontmoh!ixpierre}!woods VOICE: (416) 242-7572 [h] LOCATION: Toronto, Ontario, Canada
greg@bilbo (Greg Wageman) (08/20/88)
In article <362@pigs.UUCP> haugj@pigs.UUCP (Joe Bob Willie) writes: > >how about creating a newsgroup for the sole purpose of posting archive >information to? i am suggesting we create a new group, comp.sources.archives >for the posting of archive site information. it can be an unmoderated >group to make it easier for people to update their sites information, >and discuss problems with using various archive sites. In all of the *moderated* comp.sources groups to which I subscribe, the moderator periodically posts information regarding submissions and archive sites. I have found a number of archive servers in this manner without difficulty. However, if others perceive a need for a specific place to post this information, such as for *unmoderated* groups, I would not object and would cast a "yes" vote, as these archive sites provide a very useful service to the net. Greg Wageman ARPA: greg%sentry@spar.slb.com Schlumberger Technologies BIX: gwage 1601 Technology Drive CIS: 74016,352 San Jose, CA 95110 GEnie: GWAGEMAN (408) 437-5198 UUCP: ...!decwrl!spar!sentry!greg ------------------ Opinions expressed herein are solely the responsibility of the author.
emv@mailrus.cc.umich.edu (Edward Vielmetti) (08/20/88)
In article <362@pigs.UUCP> haugj@pigs.UUCP (Joe Bob Willie) writes: > >how about creating a newsgroup for the sole purpose of posting archive >information to? i am suggesting we create a new group, comp.sources.archives amen hallelujah, we need this group. use it for mail-based servers as well as anonymous FTP sites, anonymous UUCP sites, people who will mail you floppies, anything like that. who's going to collect the votes, or do we petition to have the backbone create it "by acclamation" ? --Ed ps. there's an archive server at mcf, path to it is mailrus!umix!mcf!archives serving Michigan.
wnp@dcs.UUCP (Wolf N. Paul) (08/20/88)
In article <2852@electron.mips.COM> wilkes@electron.UUCP (John Wilkes) writes: > >I like the idea. How about local groups? (e.g., ba.sources.archives for the >SF Bay area.) No -- lets make this netwide. Nothing against local groups, but this would leave those in a lurch who have no archive site in their immediate neighborhood, or require wider distribution of local groups which tends to just add to the general confusion on the net. By having a netwide group, archive site admins would also have all the info in one place in case their site missed a specific item and needs to get it from one of the other archives. Wolf -- Wolf N. Paul * 3387 Sam Rayburn Run * Carrollton TX 75007 * (214) 306-9101 UUCP: killer!dcs!wnp ESL: 62832882 DOMAIN: wnp%dcs@killer.dallas.tx.us TLX: 910-380-0585 EES PLANO UD
jfh@rpp386.UUCP (The Beach Bum) (08/21/88)
In article <389@snjsn1.SJ.ATE.SLB.COM> greg%sentry@spar.slb.com (Greg Wageman) writes: >In all of the *moderated* comp.sources groups to which I subscribe, >the moderator periodically posts information regarding submissions and >archive sites. I have found a number of archive servers in this >manner without difficulty. not everyone can find an archive server, or even an archive. the very fact that archive listings for sources in the usenet archives are needed is the very existence of comp.sources.wanted. the trouble is, not everyone bothers to look through the moderated sources groups. i owe this thought to someone else - wading through all of the non-archive related info in comp.sources.wanted is a pain. this would centralize all of the archive requests into one newsgroup. it would also provide a forum for posting information regarding system down times, such as simtel20 which recently went down. all in all, i suggest anyone who thinks people are using the information which rich $alz and others provide should take a look at comp.sources.wanted to see how much attention people pay those postings. -- John F. Haugh II +--------- Cute Chocolate Quote --------- HASA, "S" Division | "USENET should not be confused with UUCP: killer!rpp386!jfh | something that matters, like CHOCOLATE" DOMAIN: jfh@rpp386.uucp | -- apologizes to Dennis O'Connor
jsp@sp7040.UUCP (John Peters) (08/22/88)
> In article <362@pigs.UUCP> haugj@pigs.UUCP (Joe Bob Willie) writes: > > > >how about creating a newsgroup for the sole purpose of posting archive > >information to? i am suggesting we create a new group, comp.sources.archives > > amen hallelujah, we need this group. I think this is a great idea!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! -- Johnnie --
greg@bilbo (Greg Wageman) (08/22/88)
In article <5653@rpp386.UUCP> jfh@rpp386.UUCP (The Beach Bum) writes: >In article <389@snjsn1.SJ.ATE.SLB.COM> greg%sentry@spar.slb.com (Greg Wageman) writes: >>In all of the *moderated* comp.sources groups to which I subscribe, >>the moderator periodically posts information regarding submissions and >>archive sites. I have found a number of archive servers in this >>manner without difficulty. > >not everyone can find an archive server, or even an archive. the very >fact that archive listings for sources in the usenet archives are needed >is the very existence of comp.sources.wanted. I'm not sure I understand this. I think you're saying that comp.sources.archives would serve mostly those who *don't* subscribe to the comp.sources newsgroups, since regular subscribers are already being told where the archives are. >the trouble is, not everyone bothers to look through the moderated >sources groups. i owe this thought to someone else - wading through >all of the non-archive related info in comp.sources.wanted is a pain. >this would centralize all of the archive requests into one newsgroup. >it would also provide a forum for posting information regarding system >down times, such as simtel20 which recently went down. That's certainly another useful purpose for the group. It might make a good place for the sysadmins to post things like "The following twenty files have just been added to the Blurfl archives..." However if "not everyone bothers to look through the moderated source groups", then it's their problem if they can't find what their looking for, isn't it? A certain amount of effort is required to use USENET, after all. >all in all, i suggest anyone who thinks people are using the information >which rich $alz and others provide should take a look at comp.sources.wanted >to see how much attention people pay those postings. Whoa, now, your reasoning is getting faulty! First of all, just because you've seen postings from people who don't know where to look for something doesn't mean that there aren't hundreds of people successfully (and quietly) using the archives sites every day. Ask the administrators of those sites how active they are. I suggest that the people who post such inquiries are being lazy, and letting the net do their work for them. Because some people choose to *ignore* information which is there, is *not* a good reason to replicate it somewhere else! Creating comp.sources.archives wouldn't guarantee the end of comp.sources.wanted postings to the effect of, "Does anyone know where I can get a copy of the gribnitz utility?". If a site can't get to the archives anyway, knowing where they are, what they contain and when they're up won't help a bit. However, as I said in the posting from which you excerpted, I think that the comp.sources.archives group has enough usefulness for other reasons that it should be created. Greg Wageman ARPA: greg%sentry@spar.slb.com Schlumberger Technologies BIX: gwage 1601 Technology Drive CIS: 74016,352 San Jose, CA 95110 GEnie: GWAGEMAN (408) 437-5198 UUCP: ...!decwrl!spar!sentry!greg ------------------ Opinions expressed herein are solely the responsibility of the author.
jfh@rpp386.UUCP (The Beach Bum) (08/24/88)
In article <392@snjsn1.SJ.ATE.SLB.COM> greg%sentry@spar.slb.com (Greg Wageman) writes: >I'm not sure I understand this. I think you're saying that >comp.sources.archives would serve mostly those who *don't* subscribe >to the comp.sources newsgroups, since regular subscribers are already >being told where the archives are. i have been told by mail that these individuals find using the posted archive information difficult because they must wade through a month's postings to find the archive site information. > However >if "not everyone bothers to look through the moderated source groups", >then it's their problem if they can't find what their looking for, >isn't it? A certain amount of effort is required to use USENET, after >all. true enough. usenet DOES require some degree of effort. this proposal would reduce the amount of effort required. and in doing so, hopefully it would decrease the number of users who are still too lazy to look. >I suggest that the people who post such inquiries are being lazy, and >letting the net do their work for them. Because some people choose to >*ignore* information which is there, is *not* a good reason to >replicate it somewhere else! this group is intended to provide an alternate forum for the posting of archive access information. rich, brandon and the games and x-windows moderators will be able to post there. this will give the user one place to look instead of 4. also, when users have some experience with an archive site, they will be able to provide feedback to other users. this group will also provide a forum for discussing how to actually use anonymous FTP and UUCP. i hope this clears up any questions which still exist. -- John F. Haugh II (jfh@rpp386.UUCP) HASA, "S" Division "If the code and the comments disagree, then both are probably wrong." -- Norm Schryer
michiel@philapd.UUCP (Michiel Fierst van Wijnandsbergen) (08/24/88)
In article <486@sp7040.UUCP> jsp@sp7040.UUCP (John Peters) writes: :> In article <362@pigs.UUCP> haugj@pigs.UUCP (Joe Bob Willie) writes: :> > :> >how about creating a newsgroup for the sole purpose of posting archive :> >information to? i am suggesting we create a new group, comp.sources.archives :> :> amen hallelujah, we need this group. : : I think this is a great idea!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! : : -- Johnnie -- Me too! But I think it should not be limited to comp.sources. How about news.archives? -- # Michiel Fierst van Wijnandsbergen Internet fierst@idca.tds.philips.nl # # Philips Telecomm. and Data Systems UUCP ...!mcvax!philapd!fierst #
allbery@ncoast.UUCP (Brandon S. Allbery) (08/25/88)
As quoted from <389@snjsn1.SJ.ATE.SLB.COM> by greg@bilbo (Greg Wageman): +--------------- | In article <362@pigs.UUCP> haugj@pigs.UUCP (Joe Bob Willie) writes: | >how about creating a newsgroup for the sole purpose of posting archive | >information to? i am suggesting we create a new group, comp.sources.archives | >for the posting of archive site information. it can be an unmoderated | >group to make it easier for people to update their sites information, | >and discuss problems with using various archive sites. | | In all of the *moderated* comp.sources groups to which I subscribe, | the moderator periodically posts information regarding submissions and | archive sites. I have found a number of archive servers in this | manner without difficulty. | | However, if others perceive a need for a specific place to post this | information, such as for *unmoderated* groups, I would not object and | would cast a "yes" vote, as these archive sites provide a very useful | service to the net. +--------------- Some comments on this: (1) The moderator doesn't always know *all* the sites that keep an archive. I only know if the person running the archive tells me. (2) Such archive postings as would be posted to the proposed newsgroup could go into greater detail as to how to access the archives. Compare my archive posting to those for "killer" and "osu-cis", for example. (3) The group would also constitute a "cross-index" by archive site, whereas modreators' lists are by newsgroup. ++Brandon -- Brandon S. Allbery, uunet!marque!ncoast!allbery DELPHI: ALLBERY For comp.sources.misc send mail to ncoast!sources-misc
moore@utkcs2.cs.utk.edu (Keith Moore) (08/25/88)
This discussion has reminded me of something that I feel is badly needed in the Internet community and perhaps in the UUCP world as well - a distributed database containing information on source code availability. If this newsgroup is set up, (and I think it's a good idea), I'd like to see submissions put into some simple kind of format that could be read by computers as well as humans. The news articles could then automatically be fed into a database update program at sites that wished to track this information. Of course, the programs to maintain the database should be widely available and portable. Even something as simple as shell scripts using cdiff on the sending end and patch on the receiving end would be very useful. Sending diffs to the database instead of sending complete lists should also minimize the net traffic caused by the proposed newsgroup. Given the unreliable nature of Usenet as a whole, however, it seems like a good idea to provide also some protection against the occasional lost article. I hope that the net can devise a way to do this simply and effectively enough to encourage its use. -- Keith Moore UT Computer Science Dept. Internet/CSnet: moore@utkcs2.cs.utk.edu 107 Ayres Hall, UT Campus BITNET: moore@utkcs1 Knoxville Tennessee 37996-1301 Telephone: +1 615 974 0822
wisner@killer.DALLAS.TX.US (Bill Wisner) (08/25/88)
Is it just me, or does this discussion seem eerily familiar?
rroot@edm.UUCP (Stephen Samuel) (08/25/88)
> As quoted from <389@snjsn1.SJ.ATE.SLB.COM> by greg@bilbo (Greg Wageman): > +--------------- > | In article <362@pigs.UUCP> haugj@pigs.UUCP (Joe Bob Willie) writes: > | >how about creating a newsgroup for the sole purpose of posting archive > | >information to? i am suggesting we create a new group, comp.sources.archives > | >for the posting of archive site information. it can be an unmoderated > | >group to make it easier for people to update their sites information, If at all possible, I think it would be a good thing if the newsgroup were moderated. Since it IS supposed to be a concentrated source of usefull info, it would be counter-productive if it had a high noise content. Is anyone willing to moderate such a group. I'm sorta' willing, but we're nowhere NEAR an archive site here, and unlikely to be one in the near future. -- ------------- Stephen Samuel (userzxcv@ualtamts.bitnet or alberta!edm!steve)
root@cca.ucsf.edu (Computer Center) (08/26/88)
For what is essentially a reference service the routine expiration that is suitable for most groups ought to be avoided. Fortunately, there is a mechanism for this in the assigned expiration date facility which is used by the moderated sources groups to retain index information. Thos Sumner (thos@cca.ucsf.edu) BITNET: thos@ucsfcca (The I.G.) (...ucbvax!ucsfcgl!cca.ucsf!thos) OS|2 -- an Operating System for puppets. #include <disclaimer.std>
jfh@rpp386.UUCP (The Beach Bum) (08/26/88)
In article <5300@killer.DALLAS.TX.US> wisner@killer.Dallas.TX.US (Bill Wisner) writes: >Is it just me, or does this discussion seem eerily familiar? in all fairness, i must give credit to bill wisner. what for, god only knows ;-) this time i plan on using all of the people who contact this system for sources as "YES" votes. if you'd thought of this last time the vote wouldn't have failed ;-) -- John F. Haugh II (jfh@rpp386.UUCP) HASA, "S" Division "If the code and the comments disagree, then both are probably wrong." -- Norm Schryer
bill@proxftl.UUCP (T. William Wells) (08/26/88)
In article <362@pigs.UUCP> haugj@pigs.UUCP (Joe Bob Willie) writes:
: lets have two weeks discussion, which will hopefully be followed by a
: vote. i'll collect the votes if it ever gets to that point.
You'll get my "yes" if it ever gets that far. It is very tedious
collecting the archive information from the various newsgroups
where it gets posted. But thanks anyway guys, its better than
nothing!
I'd suggest two groups: comp.sources.archives and
comp.sources.archives.d, the first for posting information on how
to access various archives, the second for discussion of problems
accessing archives (path xyzzy!abcd!foobar didn't work! Help!),
problems with archiving sites (I got bletch.Z from site glorch
and it wouldn't decompress!), archiving systems themselves (try
Bugaboo SW's archive server, wow!), and of anything else relating
to archives and archiving.
Alternatively, I'd suggest that there be an established way of
identifying which postings contained archive information (like a
specially formatted subject line) so that we can find the
information we want easily.
---
Bill
novavax!proxftl!billsewilco@datapg.MN.ORG (Scot E Wilcoxon) (08/26/88)
In article <480@utkcs2.cs.utk.edu> moore@utkcs2.cs.utk.edu (Keith Moore) writes: ... >If this newsgroup is set up, (and I think it's a good idea), I'd like to The recommended method is to just start posting in an almost-right place to build up the volume. Then request to get kicked out to our own newsgroup. >see submissions put into some simple kind of format that could be read >by computers as well as humans. I've been regionally posting entries of this format (head and tail, omitting part of too-long list of directories, and access info removed to avoid getting requests from the universe before I'm ready): Subject: archive list - datapg - Sun Aug 21 21:09:27 CDT 1988 Newsgroups: mn.general Distribution: mn Organization: Data Progress, Minneapolis Archive-Name: index.datapg Site: datapg Support: Automatic server, automatic indexing Latency: 0.04 days Service: # this contains an example of requesting something Usage: # this shows how to get more detailed usage instructions Contact: sewilco@DataPg.MN.ORG ===== datapg summary NETLIB index ===== Sun Aug 21 21:09:29 CDT 1988 ----summary of subdirectories------ bench doc graphics misc news news/alt news/alt/sources news/comp news/comp/ai ... -------summary of contents--------- Archive-Name Pathname Message-ID =========Subject=============================================================== =============================================================================== tools/2dpipe.art <188@metro.oz> 2dpipe - implement 2 dimensional sh(1) pipes news/unix-pc/sources/38 <828@hsi.UUCP> 3b1plot - plot(1) filter for 3b1 news/comp/sys/att/161 <1133@cooper.cooper.EDU> Analysis & test for 3b inode problem: applies to ALL users of SYSTEM V vplot/part23 news/comp/sources/unix/166 <599@fig.bbn.com> v14i028: Device-independant graphics system, with drivers vplot/part24 news/comp/sources/unix/164 <600@fig.bbn.com> v14i029: Device-independant graphics system, with drivers vtree news/comp/sources/unix/252 <766@fig.bbn.com> v15i005: Visual display of directory tree whichtape news/comp/sources/unix/271 <864@fig.bbn.com> v15i023: Tools to help find files on backup tapes window-srch text/window-srch <972@fig.bbn.com> v15i082: Windowing search (not unlike context grep) xenix-fuser news/comp/sources/misc/271 <8807130006.AA13998@rpp386.UUCP> v03i090: fuser for 386 xenix (+ repost of Unix PC version) > The news articles could then automatically >be fed into a database update program at sites that wished to track this >information. ... Two-line entries used for human readibility. Archive-Name: First word, if first char of first line non-whitespace. Pathname: Field after first whitespace on first line. Message-ID: Field after second whitespace on first line. Subject: Field after first whitespace on second line. Can be machine processed with the above definition. Message-ID is given specifically to simplify comparison and merging with index from other sites. I've been maintaining the index by having at least "Message-ID" and "Subject" lines in a header of each archived file. I then use a modified version of "search" (from net.sources years ago) with some scripts which create the index. The scripts could easily be modified to also report files without a USENET header. I will be posting these tools within a few weeks, as we're shaking them out locally. I do not have a program to extract the indexes from news, merge and update an index database, nor search and issue requests (help in issuing requests would be nice, as requests might be made by uucp, mail, or ftp). Those are some of the tools which are also being mentioned in this discussion. Anyone have pieces of these? (Don't forget to remove old information from the index DB) -- Scot E. Wilcoxon sewilco@DataPg.MN.ORG {amdahl|hpda}!bungia!datapg!sewilco Data Progress UNIX masts & rigging +1 612-825-2607 uunet!datapg!sewilco
frotz@drivax.UUCP (Frotz) (08/27/88)
In article <362@pigs.UUCP> haugj@pigs.UUCP (Joe Bob Willie) writes: >how about creating a newsgroup for the sole purpose of posting archive >information to? i am suggesting we create a new group, comp.sources.archives >for the posting of archive site information. I for one would be interested in knowing how to access the various archives just to find out what's out there. --Frotz "Dave...I can't seem to find you on any of my monitors." -- Hal9000, Jupiter Orbit, 2010.
wisner@killer.DALLAS.TX.US (Bill Wisner) (08/27/88)
Yes, it is somewhat tough collecting all the archive information, but there's this somewhat ephemeral hope that the existence of an archives newsgroup would bring in submissions from the people that manage archives.
root@cca.ucsf.edu (Computer Center) (08/27/88)
In article <621@proxftl.UUCP>, bill@proxftl.UUCP (T. William Wells) writes: > ... > You'll get my "yes" if it ever gets that far. It is very tedious > collecting the archive information from the various newsgroups > where it gets posted. > ... > I'd suggest two groups: comp.sources.archives and > comp.sources.archives.d The archives directory group should not be a subgroup of sources. Two other widely sought classes of archives come to mind immediately: Binaries Archives Graphics Images Archives and I'm sure there are many others. A high level group seems reasonable. It should be conspicuous to help the goals of serving a wide community and reducing wasteful net traffic. The structure of a moderated data group (where the moderator can control expiration dates for reference information) plus an associated unmoderated discussion group seems to be appropriate for this. Thos Sumner (thos@cca.ucsf.edu) BITNET: thos@ucsfcca (The I.G.) (...ucbvax!ucsfcgl!cca.ucsf!thos) OS|2 -- an Operating System for puppets. #include <disclaimer.std>
clarke@acheron.UUCP (Ed Clarke) (08/27/88)
From article <621@proxftl.UUCP>, by bill@proxftl.UUCP (T. William Wells): > In article <362@pigs.UUCP> haugj@pigs.UUCP (Joe Bob Willie) writes: > : lets have two weeks discussion, which will hopefully be followed by a > : vote. i'll collect the votes if it ever gets to that point. > You'll get my "yes" if it ever gets that far. It is very tedious > collecting the archive information from the various newsgroups Why don't you put archive information in the 'misc' section of your uucp map entry? If you use the keyword ARCHIVE, it can be searched with a perl script or even just grep. No moderator required and also no new newsgroup. Ed Clarke uunet!bywater!acheron!clarke
karl@romeo.cs.duke.edu (Karl Ramm) (08/28/88)
In article <231@acheron.UUCP> clarke@acheron.UUCP (Ed Clarke) writes: >Why don't you put archive information in the 'misc' section of your >uucp map entry? If you use the keyword ARCHIVE, it can be searched >with a perl script or even just grep. No moderator required and also >no new newsgroup. Because the group in question would also maintain records of ARPAnet anonymous ftp archives... also, not everyone faithfully saves a copy of the UUCP maps... They just remember where their nearest smart host is. Even so, putting whether you are an archive site in your UUCP map entry IS a good idea.. but it doesn't eliminate the need for a newsgroup. /*----- Karl Ramm ------------------------------------------------------------*\ |* This space intentionally left blank. Internet: karl@cs.duke.edu *| \*-------------------------------------------------- USENET: mcnc!duke!karl --*/
how@milhow1.UUCP (Mike Howard) (08/29/88)
How about archiving the archive info someplace and periodically posting a listing of the archive info listings and how to get them. The general idea seems to be to collect _all_ archive access information in one `location'. It should be a little more efficient to collect the actual information at an archive site(s) and periodically post (every two weeks?) information on how to get the archive info lists and what lists (with revision dates) are available. Archive maintainers would then mail their archive info to the archive site(s) - which (should be able to) can automatically generate the summary list. Summary list(s) would probably have to be mailed to some central distribution for reposting. Anyway, this list should be a short concise index to archive info. BTW, I would like that quite a bit better than having the archive info which I don't care about cropping up in groups I am reading for `content'. Are a there any groups which currently exist which would be suitable for such a list - such as `comp.newuser'? -- Mike Howard uunet!milhow1!how
tneff@dasys1.UUCP (Tom Neff) (08/30/88)
One question about comp.sources.archives: would archive sites be tempted
to post their entire file directory listings, with comments, to the group?
Would it be too much to carry if they did? Should postings be limited
to "I archive these newsgroups and RFCs"? Will users post numerous
requests for specific files ("has anyone got this" etc)? Should the group
be moderated for the foregoing reasons?
Okay, FIVE questions. :-)
--
Tom Neff UUCP: ...!cmcl2!phri!dasys1!tneff
"None of your toys CIS: 76556,2536 MCI: TNEFF
will function..." GEnie: TOMNEFF BIX: t.neff (no kidding)bill@proxftl.UUCP (T. William Wells) (08/30/88)
In article <3261@edm.UUCP> rroot@edm.UUCP (Stephen Samuel) writes: : If at all possible, I think it would be a good thing if the newsgroup were : moderated. Since it IS supposed to be a concentrated source of usefull info, : it would be counter-productive if it had a high noise content. : Is anyone willing to moderate such a group. I'm sorta' willing, but we're : nowhere NEAR an archive site here, and unlikely to be one in the near future. Well, I already keep all archive information I run across, so I could do this. What I mean is that I could both moderate such a group and keep an archive-archive. Though we'd have to be a mail-based server, since we are a uucp site. I don't *think* that would be a problem. In article <1349@ucsfcca.ucsf.edu>, root@cca.ucsf.edu (Thos Sumner) writes: : > I'd suggest two groups: comp.sources.archives and : > comp.sources.archives.d : : The archives directory group should not be a subgroup of sources. Agreed. Let's call them comp.archives and comp.archives.d. --- Bill novavax!proxftl!bill
bill@proxftl.UUCP (T. William Wells) (08/30/88)
In article <231@acheron.UUCP> clarke@acheron.UUCP (Ed Clarke) writes:
: Why don't you put archive information in the 'misc' section of your
: uucp map entry? If you use the keyword ARCHIVE, it can be searched
: with a perl script or even just grep. No moderator required and also
: no new newsgroup.
I have no real idea of what you are proposing. However, if you
are supposing that there is something that uucp sites could do to
collect this information easily, you may be right, but this is
irrelevant. Just what fraction of the sites on Usenet do you
think are uucp sites? Judging by the posting volume, that number
might be very small. And in any case, a piecemeal solution to
the problem of finding archives is not going to very
satisfactory. (OK, you uucp sites do A; you bitnet sites do B;
you arpa ...). Far better for there to be a newsgroup.
---
Bill
novavax!proxftl!billhenigan@quando.UUCP (Kevin Henigan) (08/30/88)
In article <486@sp7040.UUCP> jsp@sp7040.UUCP (John Peters) writes: ]> In article <362@pigs.UUCP> haugj@pigs.UUCP (Joe Bob Willie) writes: ]> > ]> >how about creating a newsgroup for the sole purpose of posting archive ]> >information to? i am suggesting we create a new group, comp.sources.archives ]> ]> amen hallelujah, we need this group. ] ] I think this is a great idea!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! ] ] -- Johnnie -- It will get a yes vote from me too, this is a much needed group. =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= + Kevin Henigan. Quantum GmbH + + email unido!quando!henigan or henigan@quando.uucp Dortmund + # include <disclaimers/std.h> West Germany + =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
sewilco@datapg.MN.ORG (Scot E Wilcoxon) (08/31/88)
In article <6146@dasys1.UUCP> tneff@dasys1.UUCP (Tom Neff) writes: >Would archive sites be tempted to post their entire file directory listings, >with comments, to the group? Would it be too much to carry if they did? If the list is 62K (500 files), a full list is no problem. For a large archive site, the question is relevant to this discussion. The UUNET archive list is 225K (1100 files) with no comments, with comments it should be twice its present size (it presently is in `ls -l` format). >Should postings be limited >to "I archive these newsgroups and RFCs"? Specialties might be newsgroups, hardware or software types, or other concepts (graphics, text, linear programming, etc). This is a good idea, so one has an idea of which archive sites might have something. >Will users post numerous requests for specific files ("has anyone got this" etc)? They're already posting (see comp.sources.wanted). Instead of posting, most will find an archive site and inquire there. The "netlib" server has a "find" command which can be used to search for searching a directory for strings. The "decwrl" server does not have such a capability (yet). I don't know of any string searching in `ftp`... >Should the group be moderated for the foregoing reasons? Managers of archives should be aware enough of the nets to restrain themselves in direct proportion to the size of their archive or posting. If a standard format is adopted for indexes, I'd prefer no centralized handling. There will be some "wanted" postings, but in general they should be reduced netwide by the ability to find archive sites (maybe I'll start reading c.s.wanted again when the volume drops :-). -- Scot E. Wilcoxon sewilco@DataPg.MN.ORG {amdahl|hpda}!bungia!datapg!sewilco Data Progress UNIX masts & rigging +1 612-825-2607 uunet!datapg!sewilco
haugj@pigs.UUCP (Joe Bob Willie) (08/31/88)
[ this article is being sent to news.groups for further discussion. it is just about time to decide what the proposed newsgroup is going to smell like ... ] In article <219@milhow1.UUCP> how@.UUCP (Mike Howard) (...!uunet!milhow1!how) writes: >How about archiving the archive info someplace and periodically >posting a listing of the archive info listings and how to get them. the problem which is trying to be solved is that people don't know where the archives are because there is no clear newsgroup or area for archive site information to be posted. >BTW, I would like that quite a bit better than having the archive info >which I don't care about cropping up in groups I am reading for `content'. i recently stopped cross-posting to comp.unix.xenix for my xenix-ported stuff for exactly this reason. i noticed many of the sites calling in weren't xenix systems so it seemed very pointless to continue bothering those poor xenix folks ... >Are a there any groups which currently exist which would be suitable for >such a list - such as `comp.newuser'? there is a news.announce.newuser newsgroup. not that anyone pays any attention to what is posted there ... news.lists could be used but it is moderated. dealing with moderated groups is a hassle. first you need a moderator ... -- =-=-=-=-=-=-=-The Beach Bum at The Big "D" Home for Wayward Hackers-=-=-=-=-=-= Very Long Address: John.F.Haugh@rpp386.dallas.tx.us Very Short Address: jfh@rpp386 "ANSI C: Just say no" -- Me
bill@proxftl.UUCP (T. William Wells) (08/31/88)
In article <6146@dasys1.UUCP> tneff@dasys1.UUCP (Tom Neff) writes:
: One question about comp.sources.archives: would archive sites be tempted
: to post their entire file directory listings, with comments, to the group?
I hope so! The whole idea is to get the information needed to
find the stuff you want, in one place. It does me little good
for someone to say "I have all of comp.sources.whatever except
volume 3." How the heck do I know what *was* in that newsgroup?
: Would it be too much to carry if they did? Should postings be limited
: to "I archive these newsgroups and RFCs"? Will users post numerous
: requests for specific files ("has anyone got this" etc)? Should the group
: be moderated for the foregoing reasons?
My current proposal is for two groups: comp.archives and
comp.archives.d; the first being moderated and for information
about what is available in various archives and how to get it;
the second for discussion related to archives. See my message
<621@proxftl.UUCP>. I have also suggested that we might want to
keep an archive of the archive information. As I said earlier, I
might be willing to do this, or to moderate the comp.archives
group.
---
Bill
novavax!proxftl!bill