jonathan@cs.keele.ac.uk (Jonathan Knight) (10/05/88)
I have been reading news for about 6 months using vnews. I tried
rn but found it very yucky. Just recently I got hold of vn and
found it pretty good.
I now have a problem. I like the 'feel' of vnews and the way vnews
displays each article, but I prefer the way vn displays all the
subjects in a group and allows selection of individual articles. What
I want is a vnews which has the vn way of selecting articles in a group.
Well, there's a suggestion for anyone working on the next version
of vnews (or vn).
--
_____ Jonathan Knight, || JANET: jonathan@uk.ac.keele.cs
/ Department of Computer Science || UUCP: ...!ukc!kl-cs!jonathan
/ _ __ University of Keele, Keele, |+-------------------------------
(_/ (_) / / Staffordshire. ST5 5BG. U.K. || If in doubt, panic!tchrist@convex.UUCP (Tom Christiansen) (10/09/88)
>I have been reading news for about 6 months using vnews. I tried >rn but found it very yucky. Just recently I got hold of vn and >found it pretty good. I don't understand what's "yucky" about rn. I find its flexibility highly desirable. Could someone explain what's "yucky" about it? I ask because we've just switched our users from notes (choke, barf) to news using rn, and most of the non-hacker types do nothing but piss and moan about it. Everytime I track down their specific gripes, it's a case of RTFM. --tom Tom Christiansen {uiucdcs,ut-sally,sun}!convex!tchrist Convex Computer Corporation tchrist@convex.COM UNIX Support, Training, and System Administration "That's not a bug -- it's a feature!"
rwl@uvacs.cs.Virginia.EDU (Ray Lubinsky) (10/10/88)
In article <632@convex.UUCP>, tchrist@convex.UUCP (Tom Christiansen) writes: > > I don't understand what's "yucky" about rn. I find its flexibility > highly desirable. Could someone explain what's "yucky" about it? > I ask because we've just switched our users from notes (choke, barf) > to news using rn, and most of the non-hacker types do nothing but > piss and moan about it. Everytime I track down their specific gripes, > it's a case of RTFM. What he means is that rn isn't a full-screen program. Vnews tries to stick to a display method where parts of the screen are dedicated to a particular function; e.g., you always know where to look for the name of the news group you're reading, you always know where you will be prompted for the name of the file in which to save the article. Rn is not full-screen oriented; it would be just as happy if you were on a DECwriter and assumes no more. It has lots of functionality (I always like Larry Wall's stuff), but I never would use most of it any way -- I just want an interface that doesn't keep my eyes jumping around the screen looking for things. For one, I'd love to see a news-reading offspring of vn and vnews. -- | Ray Lubinsky, UUCP: ...!uunet!virginia!uvacs!rwl | | Department of BITNET: rwl8y@virginia | | Computer Science, CSNET: rwl@cs.virginia.edu -OR- | | University of Virginia rwl%uvacs@uvaarpa.virginia.edu |
kent@happym.UUCP (Kent Forschmiedt) (10/11/88)
In article <632@convex.UUCP> tchrist@convex.UUCP (Tom Christiansen) writes: >I don't understand what's "yucky" about rn. I find its flexibility >highly desirable. Could someone explain what's "yucky" about it? > ... Everytime I track down their specific gripes, >it's a case of RTFM. I have been using rn for a while now. I found it yucky at first, too. It has millions of features, and it takes a fair amount of knowledge to get them under control. Further, the manual is quite a tome, and must be read like a novel. It is not indexed, and I find it poorly organized for reference use. After accumulating sufficient experience with it, I am beginning to appreciate its complexity as flexibility. -- kent@happym.UUCP, tikal!camco!happym!kent, Happy Man Corp. USA 206-282-9598
tchrist@convex.UUCP (Tom Christiansen) (10/11/88)
Now if I only could only coerce rn into reading my mh folders! :-)/2
--
Tom Christiansen {uiucdcs,ut-sally,sun}!convex!tchrist
Convex Computer Corporation tchrist@convex.COM
UNIX Support, Training, and System Administration
"That's not a bug -- it's a feature!"lmb@vsi1.UUCP (Larry Blair) (10/12/88)
There were several things about "vn" that appealed to me the one time I tried it. The way it breaks up digests was particularly nice. Unfortunately, it initializes for _all_ of your subscribed groups at invocation. Since I subscribe to 91 groups (wait a sec... really!?), we're talking many minutes! Has someone eliminated this problem? -- Larry Blair ames!vsi1!lmb lmb%vsi1.uucp@ames.arc.nasa.gov
rroot@edm.UUCP (Stephen Samuel) (10/12/88)
From article <632@convex.UUCP>, by tchrist@convex.UUCP (Tom Christiansen): >>I have been reading news for about 6 months using vnews. I tried >>rn but found it very yucky. Just recently I got hold of vn and > > I don't understand what's "yucky" about rn. I find its flexibility > highly desirable. Could someone explain what's "yucky" about it? > Everytime I track down their specific gripes, > it's a case of RTFM. I guess that part of the reason why people complain about rn is that you HAVE TO RTFM. This isn't good for non-hacker types who like to have the computer do all the trivial work for them. A good user interface should try to be onobtrusive -- sort of like a sports ref who spends most of the time almost invisible and only stepping in when something weird happens. RN also needs a 2 page (or less) FM. Many people just don't know how to look for things in a manual that you can't read in one quick glance. -- ------------- Stephen Samuel (userzxcv@ualtamts.bitnet or alberta!edm!steve) (Only in Canada, you say??.... Pity!)
eric@snark.UUCP (Eric S. Raymond) (10/12/88)
In <2743@uvacs.cs.virginia.edu> rwl@uvacs.cs.Virginia.EDU (Ray Lubinsky) sez:
> For one, I'd love to see a news-reading offspring of vn and vnews.
Have *I* got a deal for *you*!
3.0 vnews combines:
1. A consistent vnews-style screen-oriented interface
2. vn/GNUs-style customizable subject list browsing.
3. All the neat rn features (kill files, macros, escapes etc).
4. *Real* conversation-following via the "Reference" relationship.
You can get all these goodies by joining my beta list. Special bonus if
you act now :-), replacements for all the other standard readers and even
a whole new faster transport layer.
--
Eric S. Raymond (the mad mastermind of TMN-Netnews)
UUCP: ...!{uunet,att,rutgers}!snark!eric = eric@snark.UUCP
Post: 22 S. Warren Avenue, Malvern, PA 19355 Phone: (215)-296-5718pst@comdesign.CDI.COM (Paul Traina) (10/13/88)
Quite frankly, I have found no "perfect" newsreader, however I have fallen
in love with Anthony Discolo's yarn (yet another...). The closest thing
available is vn. Both yarn and vn display *many* news article headers
at the same time, which allows you to avoid typing 'n' for 1000 postings.
I'm planning on combining some of the features of yarn (split-screen
where it will display the first 8 lines of the body of a posting, and
the reading of groups one at a time (a *big* loss of vn is that it scans
and reads every message header in every group at once. This is bogus
behavior)).
--
Paul Traina To believe that what is true for
{uunet|pyramid}!comdesign!pst you in your private heart is true
pst@cdi.com for all men, that is genius.pcolby@robbie.prime.com (Peter Colby) (10/13/88)
In article <3286@edm.UUCP> rroot@edm.UUCP (Stephen Samuel) writes: }From article <632@convex.UUCP>, by tchrist@convex.UUCP (Tom Christiansen): }}}I have been reading news for about 6 months using vnews. I tried }}}rn but found it very yucky. Just recently I got hold of vn and }} }} I don't understand what's "yucky" about rn. I find its flexibility }} highly desirable. Could someone explain what's "yucky" about it? }} Everytime I track down their specific gripes, }} it's a case of RTFM. }I guess that part of the reason why people complain about rn is that you }HAVE TO RTFM. This isn't good for non-hacker types who like to have the }computer do all the trivial work for them. A good user interface should }try to be onobtrusive -- sort of like a sports ref who spends most of the }time almost invisible and only stepping in when something weird happens. Not to be one to dispell myths :=) but.... I have been using rn for the past 2 years (or longer) and I finally RTFM for the first time last week. I will admit that there is lost of useful stuff described in the manual that isn't easily picked up from the help screens but I never had any problem before. In fact, the only reason I looked at the manual was to figure out how to set up a couple of useful macros. Then again, I've never used any other news reader so perhaps I'm speaking from the viewpoint of ignorance. = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = UUCP: {sun,decvax,linus}!cvbnet!pcolby ||| "We has met the enemy and he is us." UUCP: pcolby@robbie.prime.com ||| Pogo CSNET: pcolby@robbie.prime.com |||
barnett@vdsvax.steinmetz.ge.com (Bruce G. Barnett) (10/13/88)
In article <3286@edm.UUCP>, rroot@edm (Stephen Samuel) writes: >I guess that part of the reason why people complain about rn is that you >HAVE TO RTFM. > RN also needs a 2 page (or less) FM. The way that I learned rn was to hit the 'h' key for help. I think O'Reilly has a reference card for rn, also. --
julian@uhccux.uhcc.hawaii.edu (Julian Cowley) (10/14/88)
In article <2743@uvacs.cs.Virginia.EDU> rwl@uvacs.cs.Virginia.EDU (Ray Lubinsky) writes: >Rn is not full-screen oriented; it would be just as happy if you were on a >DECwriter and assumes no more. It has lots of functionality (I always like >Larry Wall's stuff), but I never would use most of it any way -- I just want >an interface that doesn't keep my eyes jumping around the screen looking for >things. > >For one, I'd love to see a news-reading offspring of vn and vnews. There are good points and bad points to both vn and rn. Usually I end up drifting between the two to take advantage of both features, but it would be great to see them combined into one program. The feature I'd like to see most in rn is if someone added in the full-screen capability, where one could view all the articles of a newsgroup a screen at a time and move the cursor to the article that you want to read. Actually, that's about the only feature that rn is really missing. Julian Cowley, University of Hawaii at Manoa (Honolulu, HI) julian@uhccux.uhcc.hawaii.edu {uunet,ucbvax}!ucsd!nosc!uhccux!julian julian@uhccux.bitnet
exodus@mfgfoc.uucp (Greg Onufer) (10/14/88)
From article <539@comdesign.CDI.COM>, by pst@comdesign.CDI.COM (Paul Traina): > the reading of groups one at a time (a *big* loss of vn is that it scans > and reads every message header in every group at once. This is bogus > behavior)). Depends on the operating system you are running, actually (it always comes down to that, doesn't it? :-) If you have job control, vn's mis-feature becomes a win... it is intelligent enough not to do stupid things in the background during its news gathering phase, like try to output to the terminal! Thus, one merely starts it up, suspends it, then places it in the background while one reads his/her mail. It will eventually attempt I/O when it is finished and you get a little blurb from your shell ([1] Stopped Output vn -- or whatever) and you then place the job in the foreground. But that's only on my home machine, here at work with Sys V, I just have to wait and wait and wait! Now if someone would get vn to behave like vnews with cross-postings, behave like rn with kill-files, and sort the headers, life would be wonderful. Anyone up to it? -Greg
weemba@garnet.berkeley.edu (Obnoxious Math Grad Student) (10/14/88)
In article <e6mI2#1OvX2j=eric@snark.UUCP>, eric@snark (Eric S. Raymond) writes: >3.0 vnews combines: > 2. vn/GNUs-style customizable subject list browsing. That Gnews-style, I assume--Eric and I e-mailed on this topic long long ago. GNUS-style is something else, and not trivially customizable. ucbvax!garnet!weemba Matthew P Wiener/Brahms Gang/Berkeley CA 94720
dc@gcm (Dave Caswell) (10/14/88)
In article <3286@edm.UUCP> rroot@edm.UUCP (Stephen Samuel) writes:
.I guess that part of the reason why people complain about rn is that you
.HAVE TO RTFM. This isn't good for non-hacker types who like to have the
.computer do all the trivial work for them. A good user interface should
.try to be onobtrusive -- sort of like a sports ref who spends most of the
.time almost invisible and only stepping in when something weird happens.
.
. RN also needs a 2 page (or less) FM. Many people just don't know how to
.look for things in a manual that you can't read in one quick glance.
For help, type "h". One thing that makes RN better than vn et al. is
that it will automatically show you articles by subject thread rather
than fifo.
--
Dave Caswell
Greenwich Capital Markets uunet!philabs!gcm!dcpst@comdesign.CDI.COM (Paul Traina) (10/14/88)
From article <442@mfgfoc.uucp>, by exodus@mfgfoc.uucp (Greg Onufer):
< From article <539@comdesign.CDI.COM>, by pst@comdesign.CDI.COM (Paul Traina):
<> the reading of groups one at a time (a *big* loss of vn is that it scans
<> and reads every message header in every group at once. This is bogus
<> behavior)).
<
< Depends on the operating system you are running, actually (it always
< comes down to that, doesn't it? :-) If you have job control, vn's
< mis-feature becomes a win... it is intelligent enough not to do
< stupid things in the background during its news gathering phase, like try
< to output to the terminal! Thus, one merely starts it up, suspends it,
< then places it in the background while one reads his/her mail. It
< will eventually attempt I/O when it is finished and you get a little
< blurb from your shell ([1] Stopped Output vn -- or whatever) and
< you then place the job in the foreground. But that's only on my home
< machine, here at work with Sys V, I just have to wait and wait and wait!
I have job control, and I still think it's a loss. It happens to be a great
"option" -- i.e. "When I login in the morning, I'll stuff vn into the background
and when I'm done reading my mail, it will be ready..." Unfortunately, my
mind is sometimes serial (smile), and I want to read news >now<. yarn's
method of compiling subject lists as necessary (e.g. when you first enter
a newsgroup for that invocation) entails minimal "apparent" overhead without
the long startup period that VN has.
In other words, what I'm trying to say is, yes, with job control it's not as
much of a loss, but sometimes people don't act the same way computers want
to act. (especially on monday morning, when I'm faced with 3 days of new
news to read (smile)).
Paul
< Now if someone would get vn to behave like vnews with cross-postings,
< behave like rn with kill-files, and sort the headers, life would be
< wonderful. Anyone up to it?
If eri[ck]@snark's visual news reader isn't up to snuff (I haven't seen it,
so this is not a comment against it, or anything even smelling of that
nature) then I will probably dig into VN and add kill files and cross-posting
knock-out features. I am somewhat pleased by the xrn program, but w/o source
(it's on ucbvax in binary form for vaxen and suns) I refuse to become attached
to it.
<
< -Greg
--
Paul Traina To believe that what is true for
{uunet|pyramid}!comdesign!pst you in your private heart is true
pst@cdi.com for all men, that is genius.zeeff@b-tech.ann-arbor.mi.us (Jon Zeeff) (10/15/88)
In article <2486@uhccux.uhcc.hawaii.edu> julian@uhccux.uhcc.hawaii.edu (Julian Cowley) writes: >would be great to see them combined into one program. The feature I'd >like to see most in rn is if someone added in the full-screen >capability, where one could view all the articles of a newsgroup a >screen at a time and move the cursor to the article that you want to read. I agree, this is the feature I'd really like to see. As it is, I press =, read a few articles, and press = again. It would be nice if rn would let me browse down the new articles, reading the ones I want to read. -- Jon Zeeff Branch Technology, umix!b-tech!zeeff zeeff@b-tech.ann-arbor.mi.us
neubauer@bsu-cs.UUCP (Paul Neubauer) (10/17/88)
In article <4866@b-tech.ann-arbor.mi.us> zeeff@b-tech.UUCP (Jon Zeeff) writes: +In article <2486@uhccux.uhcc.hawaii.edu> julian@uhccux.uhcc.hawaii.edu (Julian Cowley) writes: +> The feature I'd +>like to see most in rn is if someone added in the full-screen +>capability, where one could view all the articles of a newsgroup a +>screen at a time and move the cursor to the article that you want to read. + +I agree, this is the feature I'd really like to see. As it is, I press =, While we're on the subject of features or misfeatures of rn, the one that has always bugged me is the difficulty involved in seeing articles that you have ALREADY read. I have used the 'h' and have RTFM, but I always seem to find myself editing the .newsrc file. If there are UNread articles remaining in the newsgroup, I can simply type in numbers to get previously read articles (though I often have to do some guessing because I cannot always remember the number of the article that I so rashly allowed to be marked as read). However, if I happened to hit 'j' on the LAST article of a newsgroup that I had been flipping through, I am left at the 'End of newsgroup foo, what now?' prompt and seem to have no access to any of the preceding articles unless I quit and edit the .newsrc. -- Paul Neubauer neubauer@bsu-cs.UUCP <backbones>!{iuvax,pur-ee}!bsu-cs!neubauer
umerin@photon.stars.flab.Fujitsu.JUNET (Masanobu UMEDA) (10/17/88)
In article <2486@uhccux.uhcc.hawaii.edu> julian@uhccux.uhcc.hawaii.edu (Julian Cowley) writes:
There are good points and bad points to both vn and rn. Usually I end
up drifting between the two to take advantage of both features, but it
would be great to see them combined into one program.
GNUS, a NNTP-based netnews reader for GNU Emacs, is a nice integration
of rn and vn. It takes advantage of both features and that of Emacs:
(1) Browsing newsgroups in a Emacs buffer.
(2) Browsing subjects (with other customizable headers) in a Emacs buffer.
(3) Browsing articles in another buffer using two window mode of Emacs.
(4) Customization using hooks.
(5) Non-NNTP supports (local news spool and private directory)
2 and 3 are attractive for rn and vn users, I think.
--
Masanobu UMEDA
umerin@flab.flab.Fujitsu.JUNET
umerin%flab.flab.Fujitsu.JUNET@uunet.uu.NETtchrist@convex.UUCP (Tom Christiansen) (10/17/88)
In article <4369@bsu-cs.UUCP> neubauer@bsu-cs.UUCP (Paul Neubauer) writes: >In article <4866@b-tech.ann-arbor.mi.us> zeeff@b-tech.UUCP (Jon Zeeff) writes: >While we're on the subject of features or misfeatures of rn, the one that >has always bugged me is the difficulty involved in seeing articles that you >have ALREADY read. I have used the 'h' and have RTFM, but I always seem to >find myself editing the .newsrc file. If there are UNread articles >remaining in the newsgroup, I can simply type in numbers to get previously >read articles (though I often have to do some guessing because I cannot >always remember the number of the article that I so rashly allowed to be >marked as read). However, if I happened to hit 'j' on the LAST article of a >newsgroup that I had been flipping through, I am left at the 'End of >newsgroup foo, what now?' prompt and seem to have no access to any of the >preceding articles unless I quit and edit the .newsrc. This is really RTFM, but it's one of the most common compaints I get. I point to the manual, show them how they should have figured it out, and they give me an incredulous, "You honestly expect me to have understood that garbledy-gook?" to which I reply, "Sure, why not?" and off they storm, growling under their breath about illegible documenation. Anyway, try this... If you have just typed 'j' on the last article, say 880, you can see previous ones with something like "845-$=". You can mark everything in a given subject unread with "?subject?rm". Remember you can get out the current subject with <ESC>s or %s. There are lots of other clever things to do, like just using = for headers or checking for the REAL parent (by reference number), but they're all in the manual so I won't repeat them here. --tom Tom Christiansen {uiucdcs,ut-sally,sun}!convex!tchrist Convex Computer Corporation tchrist@convex.COM UNIX Support, Training, and System Administration "That's not a bug -- it's a feature!"
sbb@esquire.UUCP (Stephen B. Baumgarten) (10/18/88)
In article <4369@bsu-cs.UUCP> neubauer@bsu-cs.UUCP (Paul Neubauer) writes: >However, if I happened to hit 'j' on the LAST article of a >newsgroup that I had been flipping through, I am left at the 'End of >newsgroup foo, what now?' prompt and seem to have no access to any of the >preceding articles unless I quit and edit the .newsrc. Use 'P' to go back 1 article; type an article number; use ?pattern?r[a|s] to search backward for a specific pattern in a read article (or just in the subject line of a read article); etc. It's all in the manual, but I don't blame anyone for not reading it cover-to-cover. It took me a while to get the hang of rn, but I really appreciate the flexibility and power it gives you. -- Steve Baumgarten | "New York... when civilization falls apart, Davis Polk & Wardwell | remember, we were way ahead of you." {uunet,cmcl2}!esquire!sbb | sbb%esquire@cmcl2.nyu.edu | - David Letterman
w8sdz@smoke.BRL.MIL (Keith B. Petersen ) (10/18/88)
Try this .rninit file with "rn". It's a lot closer to screen-oriented
than the defaults and it reads postings by thread instead of
sequentially by number.
-i=24
-S
-N
-e
-L
-h
+hfrom
+hdate
-hdate-received
+hsubject
+hsummary
+hkeywords
--
--Keith Petersen
Maintainer of the CP/M and MSDOS archives at SIMTEL20.ARMY.MIL [26.0.0.74]
Arpa: W8SDZ@SIMTEL20.ARMY.MIL
Uucp: {ames,decwrl,harvard,rutgers,ucbvax,uunet}!simtel20.army.mil!w8sdzneal@druhi.ATT.COM (USENET News Administrator) (10/19/88)
in article <442@mfgfoc.uucp>, exodus@mfgfoc.uucp (Greg Onufer) says: > > Now if someone would get vn to behave like vnews with cross-postings, > behave like rn with kill-files, and sort the headers, life would be > wonderful. Anyone up to it? > > -Greg The most important thing here is SORT THE HEADERS! I've wanted that for years. PLEASE! (of course, the "Re: " should be ignored in the sort....) -Neal McBurnett, att!druhi!neal
neubauer@bsu-cs.UUCP (Paul Neubauer) (10/19/88)
In article <654@convex.UUCP> tchrist@convex.UUCP (Tom Christiansen) writes: >In article <4369@bsu-cs.UUCP> neubauer@bsu-cs.UUCP (Paul Neubauer) writes: >>While we're on the subject of features or misfeatures of rn, the one that >>has always bugged me is the difficulty involved in seeing articles that you >>have ALREADY read. I have used the 'h' and have RTFM, but I always seem to >>find myself editing the .newsrc file. If there are UNread articles >>remaining in the newsgroup, I can simply type in numbers to get previously >>read articles (though I often have to do some guessing because I cannot >>always remember the number of the article that I so rashly allowed to be >>marked as read). However, if I happened to hit 'j' on the LAST article of a >>newsgroup that I had been flipping through, I am left at the 'End of >>newsgroup foo, what now?' prompt and seem to have no access to any of the >>preceding articles unless I quit and edit the .newsrc. > >This is really RTFM, but it's one of the most common compaints I get. I >point to the manual, show them how they should have figured it out, and >they give me an incredulous, "You honestly expect me to have understood >that garbledy-gook?" to which I reply, "Sure, why not?" and off they >storm, growling under their breath about illegible documenation. As I mentioned, I *have* RTFM, and if you have a nice handy spot in the FM to point to, please do so. You may expect everyone to have understood everything in the FM, but I (who am normally comparatively adept at figuring out such things) am not at all surprised that this particular complaint is one of the most common. See below. >Anyway, try this... > >If you have just typed 'j' on the last article, say 880, you can see >previous ones with something like "845-$=". You can mark everything >in a given subject unread with "?subject?rm". Remember you can >get out the current subject with <ESC>s or %s. There are lots of >other clever things to do, like ... [clever things deleted--not relevant] I would like to thank several people who have sent replies to my complaint/query. Most of the replies left out the same critical step that Tom did. (They probably assumed I knew what I was doing :-) To illustrate the problem I was referring to, I have prepared the following edited script from an actual rn session. I have deleted some unnecessary material and indicated the deletions with '...' I have indicated my responses to rn's prompts by underscoring them. For example, _S_P_C means that I pressed the spacebar. Other comments are included in c-style comments. I have also included some of the replies preceded by '>' or '+'. (I hope that the kind people that sent me these hints do not mind my posting fragments of their replies.) Script started on Mon Oct 17 11:04:46 1988 % rn Unread news in rec.humor.funny 1 article Unread news in comp.os.cpm 1 article ... etc. ******** 1 unread article in rec.humor.funny--read now? [ynq] _S_P_C Article 652 in rec.humor.funny (moderated): Subject: Amusing ? item for sale ... /*body of article deleted*/ End of article 652 (of 652)--what next? [npq] _S_P_C End of newsgroup rec.humor.funny. /*rn does not pause here*/ ******** 1 unread article in comp.os.cpm--read now? [ynq] _- /* This brings us to the point where I was having the trouble. */ +From: chemabs!chemabs!lwv27@tut.cis.ohio-state.edu (Larry W. Virden) +Here are a number of ways to do it: +a) type the message numbers you want to reread. +b) type a range of numbers and an = (to see the list of subjects) +c) type a /regular expression/ followed by the letter that indicates +that you can search read msgs (i have misplaced my manual). ******** 0 unread articles in rec.humor.funny--read now? [ynq] _6_5_1 Type h for help. /* I tried to type '651', a number for a previous article. */ /* As soon as I typed the '6', rn beeped at me and printed */ /* 'Type h for help', i.e., it refused to acknowledge the number. */ >From: dhesi (Rahul Dhesi) >If you exit with x, rn won't update .newsrc, so this is useful if you >accidentally junked some articles. To see articles already read, I /* This works, but is really useful only if you haven't got */ /* a lot of the .newsrc to reconstruct, e.g. if you haven't got */ /* a lot of articles marked with 'M' or the like. It isn't so */ /* bad if you have only eliminated whole newsgroups. */ >usually either select a word that appears in the subject line and mark >articles unread: > > ?word?rm /* So now I try to search backward for a string in the subject line */ /* and mark the article as unread. */ ******** 0 unread articles in rec.humor.funny--read now? [ynq] _?_s_a_l_e_?_r_m Searching... Not found--use g to add newsgroups /* That didn't work, so now try searching with '/' instead of '?' */ ******** 0 unread articles in rec.humor.funny--read now? [ynq] _/_w_i_t_h_/_r_m Searching... Not found--use g to add newsgroups /* Still no luck. */ +From: Steve Hayman <iuvax!sahayman> +You want rn's "P" command. P goes to the previous article, even if +you've already read it. You can step through all the previous +articles with PPPPPPP ... ******** 0 unread articles in rec.humor.funny--read now? [ynq] _P /* Oops! That just takes me back to a different newsgroup. */ ******** 0 unread articles in rec.games.go--read now? [ynq] _- >From: Amos Shapir <nsc!taux01!taux02.taux01!amos@hplabs.hp.com> >Looks like you'll have to RTFM more carefully... :-) There was a time >I too thought there were things rn just cannot do, but that was before >I discovered the fact that there is no such thing - the question is always >'how', never 'if'. ;-) Almost always, there is more than one answer. /* How true! */ >Anyway, here's how: >A '-' will bring you to the last article read, or to the last group >if you have already left it. In the latter case, always say 'y' to >the question '0 unread articles - read now?' /* The KEY!!! This is what everyone else, including Tom, omitted */ ******** 0 unread articles in rec.humor.funny--read now? [ynq] _y End of newsgroup rec.humor.funny. What next? [qnp] _P Article 652 in rec.humor.funny (moderated): ... End of article 652 (of 652)--what next? [npq] _S_P_C /* That one worked!! */ /* Answering 'y' not only makes 'P' useable, but the other */ /* commands as well. */ /* This was more or less what I was hoping for, but did not */ /* know how to do. */ ******** 1 unread article in comp.os.cpm--read now? [ynq] _- /* Now for the bonus, something even better: */ +From: Steve Hayman <iuvax!sahayman> /*more of Steve's reply*/ +while I'm here, here's a macro you might like. Put this in your +.rnmac file, and then you can use the ~ command to show the +subjects of all articles, read or unread. + +# ~ gives a list of subjects of all articles in the current newsgroups +~ %(%m=n?.$ /* trying Steve's tilde macro. */ ******** 0 unread articles in rec.humor.funny--read now? [ynq] _~ End of newsgroup rec.humor.funny. What next? [qnp] /* rn didn't pause for a response here */ Searching... 652 Amusing ? item for sale ... /*subject lines from 651-642 */ 641 A joke my father always liked... What next? [npq] _R_E_T /*RET gives last listed article*/ Article 641 in rec.humor.funny (moderated): Subject: A joke my father always liked... ... End of article 641 (of 652)--what next? [npq] _S_P_C /* Steve's macro works even without answering 'y' to the */ /* 'read now?" prompt. */ End of newsgroup rec.humor.funny. ******** 1 unread article in comp.os.cpm--read now? [ynq] _q % script done on Mon Oct 17 11:07:37 1988 Thanks again to all of you! Paul Neubauer neubauer@bsu-cs.UUCP <backbones>!{iuvax,pur-ee}!bsu-cs!neubauer -- Paul Neubauer neubauer@bsu-cs.UUCP <backbones>!{iuvax,pur-ee}!bsu-cs!neubauer
nate@mipos2.intel.com (Nate Hess) (10/22/88)
In article <4398@bsu-cs.UUCP>, neubauer@bsu-cs (Paul Neubauer) writes: >As I mentioned, I *have* RTFM, and if you have a nice handy spot in the FM >to point to, please do so. You may expect everyone to have understood >everything in the FM, but I (who am normally comparatively adept at figuring >out such things) am not at all surprised that this particular complaint is >one of the most common. See below. The problem you're referring to (needing to say 'y' to the "0 unread articles in foo.bar -- what now?" question) is actually addressed in the first page of the man page: Rn operates on three levels: the newsgroup selection level, the article selection level, and the paging level. Each level has its own set of commands, and its own help menu. At the paging level (the bottom level), rn behaves much like the more(1) program. At the article selection level, you may specify which article you want next, or read them in the default order, which is either in order of arrival on your system, or by subject threads. At the newsgroup selection level (the top level), you may specify which newsgroup you want next, or read them in the default order, which is the order that the newsgroups occur in your .newsrc file. You were trying to type article selection commands at the newsgroup selection level, something that, in general, won't get you very far. I can understand how you were confused, though. The man page simply contains a *lot* of dense information with an almost mind-boggling number of customizations available. Of course, if you think that gives you enough rope to hang yourself, browse through the Gnews manual someday... :-)# Happy reading, --woodstock -- "What I like is when you're looking and thinking and looking and thinking...and suddenly you wake up." - Hobbes woodstock@sc.intel.com ...!{decwrl|hplabs!oliveb|amd}!intelca!mipos3!nate
umerin@photon.stars.flab.Fujitsu.JUNET (Masanobu UMEDA) (10/24/88)
In article <3674@druhi.ATT.COM> neal@druhi.ATT.COM (USENET News Administrator) writes:
The most important thing here is SORT THE HEADERS! I've wanted
that for years. PLEASE! (of course, the "Re: " should be
ignored in the sort....)
Ok, try out GNUS! You can sort the headers by any combinations of
date, subject, author, lines, message-id and message number. I usually
sort the headers by date and then by subject.
--
Masanobu UMEDA
umerin@flab.flab.Fujitsu.JUNET
umerin%flab.flab.Fujitsu.JUNET@uunet.uu.NET