lmb@vsi1.UUCP (Larry Blair) (12/08/88)
In article <1249@fig.bbn.com> rsalz@uunet.uu.net (Rich Salz) writes:
=The following describes the SAO (Smithsonian Astronomical Observatory) dataset,
=reduced to RA/DECL/MAG records and posted in ASCII format in 48 parts.
HEY! 3MB of posting for extremely limited interest? I strongly urge you,
Rich, to not send the rest of this out in this manner. I'm sure there must
be a much better channel for distribution.
--
Larry Blair ames!vsi1!lmb lmb%vsi1.uucp@ames.arc.nasa.govlarry@kitty.UUCP (Larry Lippman) (12/09/88)
In article <1280@vsi1.UUCP>, lmb@vsi1.UUCP (Larry Blair) writes: > =The following describes SAO (Smithsonian Astronomical Observatory) dataset, > =reduced to RA/DECL/MAG records and posted in ASCII format in 48 parts. > > HEY! 3MB of posting for extremely limited interest? I strongly urge you, > Rich, to not send the rest of this out in this manner. I'm sure there must > be a much better channel for distribution. I strongly agree with Larry Blair. My site (and no doubt others), automatically archives comp.sources.unix articles. I certainly do not want to tie up 3 mb of tape with this SAO dataset, and therefore have to go to the trouble of manually deleting these articles from our archive spool directory before they get written to tape. <> Larry Lippman @ Recognition Research Corp., Clarence, New York <> UUCP: {allegra|ames|boulder|decvax|rutgers|watmath}!sunybcs!kitty!larry <> VOICE: 716/688-1231 {att|hplabs|mtune|utzoo|uunet}!/ <> FAX: 716/741-9635 {G1,G2,G3 modes} "Have you hugged your cat today?"
gore@eecs.nwu.edu (Jacob Gore) (12/09/88)
I think Rich went on vacation, but not wanting to be critisized again for
silence in comp.sources.unix, he let `at` do the postings of this monster
in his absence :-)
Jacob Gore Gore@EECS.NWU.Edu
Northwestern Univ., EECS Dept. {oddjob,gargoyle,att}!nucsrl!goreroot@cca.ucsf.edu (Computer Center) (12/09/88)
> In article <1280@vsi1.UUCP>, lmb@vsi1.UUCP (Larry Blair) writes: > > > > HEY! 3MB of posting for extremely limited interest? Hey!!! Just because this information is not system programmer oriented doesn't mean its interest is narrowlly limited. Applicationms oriented material belongs in comp.sources just as much as systems administration material. This posting of the SAO material appears very valuable to many people. Just because I won't use it in my own work doesn't mean that it shouldn't be in our archive. Thos Sumner (thos@cca.ucsf.edu) BITNET: thos@ucsfcca (The I.G.) (...ucbvax!ucsfcgl!cca.ucsf!thos) OS|2 -- an Operating System for puppets. #include <disclaimer.std>
fyl@ssc.UUCP (Phil Hughes) (12/09/88)
In article <1280@vsi1.UUCP>, lmb@vsi1.UUCP (Larry Blair) writes: > In article <1249@fig.bbn.com> rsalz@uunet.uu.net (Rich Salz) writes: > =The following describes the SAO (Smithsonian Astronomical Observatory) dataset, > =reduced to RA/DECL/MAG records and posted in ASCII format in 48 parts. > HEY! 3MB of posting for extremely limited interest? I strongly urge you, > Rich, to not send the rest of this out in this manner. I'm sure there must > be a much better channel for distribution. I must disagree. Real data. We see lots of code posted which is nice and even sometimes useful. Here is something that could be interesting to play with. I think it is of at least as much interest and many of the programs posted. -- Phil Hughes, SSC, Inc. P.O. Box 55549, Seattle, WA 98155 (206)FOR-UNIX uw-beaver!tikal!ssc!fyl or uunet!pilchuck!ssc!fyl or attmail!ssc!fyl
thad@cup.portal.com (Thad P Floryan) (12/09/88)
Contrary to Larry Blair's comments, I believe I speak for the THOUSANDS of us for whom the SAO database and programs ARE important; those of us without the 9-track tape drives and etc. for which distribution on Usenet is truly a godsend. Just as one fer'instance: a colleague of mine has as one of his clients some people at Lick Observatory who "like" to program in Basic. The mere presence of the SAO database and the C programs (like the Yale star chart stuff earlier this year) is GREAT for bringing more professionals up to speed with more modern languages and capabilities. As always, if a posting offends thee, type "N" (or whatever one's mail reader accepts for a "don't see" command). The copies I'm "downloading" from the Usenet posting of the SAO material WILL see wide distribution and benefit MANY people. So here's my vote for the continuation of the posting of the SAO material. As a side note, I would NOT refuse the donation of a SCSI 9-track 1/2" tape drive and/or Internet hardware/software! :-) Thad Floryan [thad@cup.portal.com (OR) ..!sun!portal!cup.portal.com!thad]
sewilco@datapg.MN.ORG (Scot E Wilcoxon) (12/09/88)
In article <1280@vsi1.UUCP> lmb@vsi1.UUCP (Larry Blair) writes: >HEY! 3MB of posting for extremely limited interest? I strongly urge you, >Rich, to not send the rest of this out in this manner. I'm sure there must >be a much better channel for distribution. This 3MB has much more use than most of the other 3MB on USENET each day. There are a lot of amateur astronomers and graphics experimenters who can use data, and now that it has been posted it will be archived in many places. (And without indexes, we shan't know of a tenth of them :-) -- Scot E. Wilcoxon sewilco@DataPg.MN.ORG {amdahl|hpda}!bungia!datapg!sewilco Data Progress UNIX masts & rigging +1 612-825-2607 uunet!datapg!sewilco I'm just reversing entropy while waiting for the Big Crunch.
pdg@hpcupt1.HP.COM (Paul Gootherts) (12/10/88)
I *am* interested in this data, so if the rest of it isn't posted here, please let us know where we can get it. Paul Gootherts, Hewlett Packard Co, hplabs!hpda!pdg
mike@cimcor.mn.org (Michael Grenier) (12/10/88)
From article <1527@ucsfcca.ucsf.edu>, by root@cca.ucsf.edu (Computer Center): >> In article <1280@vsi1.UUCP>, lmb@vsi1.UUCP (Larry Blair) writes: >> > >> > HEY! 3MB of posting for extremely limited interest? $ $ Hey!!! $ $ Just because this information is not system programmer oriented $ doesn't mean its interest is narrowlly limited. $ Well, my guess that it will be actually used by only a few sites. I think one could argue that the GAO dataset is not a source and perhaps should not have been posted to the comp.sources.unix group. The real question is whether a large posting will be used by a large number of sites. I.e. is the site to size ratio above some certain threshold? Perhaps a ratio like (percent of all sites who will use posting/ megabytes) should be greater than 2 or something. Say GAO will be used by 1 percent of the sites. It would be rejected because 1 percent/3meg is less than 2. Of course, who really knows how many sites will use GAO...so please don't flame me, its just a made up example! Small postings comming out of comp.sources.misc would be justified even if for only a few people if the size is small. I don't want to discourage large postings as long as they are useful. -Mike Grenier mike@cimcor.mn.org
lmb@vsi1.UUCP (Larry Blair) (12/10/88)
In article <1527@ucsfcca.ucsf.edu> root@cca.ucsf.edu (Computer Center) writes: => In article <1280@vsi1.UUCP>, lmb@vsi1.UUCP (Larry Blair) writes: => > => > HEY! 3MB of posting for extremely limited interest? = =Hey!!! = =Just because this information is not system programmer oriented =doesn't mean its interest is narrowlly limited. Yea? Well this one _is_. =Applicationms oriented material belongs in comp.sources just as =much as systems administration material. If Rich posted 3MB of anything that was not of broad interest, I'd say it was a waste of resources (we're talking $100Ks here!). My point is that the interest range is small enough that alternative methods of distribution should have been used. Even the GNU software, which is of vastly larger interest, isn't posted to the net like this. -- Larry Blair ames!vsi1!lmb lmb%vsi1.uucp@ames.arc.nasa.gov
kjohn@CTIX.uucp (John K. Counsulatant) (12/10/88)
In article <2818@kitty.UUCP> larry@kitty.UUCP (Larry Lippman) writes: >In article <1280@vsi1.UUCP>, lmb@vsi1.UUCP (Larry Blair) writes: >> =The following describes SAO (Smithsonian Astronomical Observatory) dataset, >> =reduced to RA/DECL/MAG records and posted in ASCII format in 48 parts. >> >> HEY! 3MB of posting for extremely limited interest? I strongly urge you, >> Rich, to not send the rest of this out in this manner. I'm sure there must >> be a much better channel for distribution. > > I strongly agree with Larry Blair. My site (and no doubt others), NO NO a 1000 times NO !!!! :-) I disagree, Rich, PLEASE POST THE REST OF THE SAO DATASET. It *does* have uses for more people than you would think. I personally :-), have two uses: 1) I am planning a grand version of a StarTrek/SpaceWar type game and would like to use the dataset to add some realism to it. 2) I also would like to create an animation on my system showing interselllar travel. An animation like this could be a great learning tool if it used this dataset for it's display of stars. All I can say is USENET is a truely valuable resource to the Unix community, it would be ashame to limit this resourse just because a couple whiners can't hit the K key, or do have the space/time to archive something that *in their opinions* is useless...... Nuf said :-). KJohn | Amiga ///.5K| Disclaimer: This is only a dream, it's only a dream ........ | | Manic/// 1K| KJohn, the man without an Amiga :-( | | \\\/// 2K| (how much is an A2500/3000 anyways? :-) | | \XX/ 2.5K| kjohn@richp1 or [ purdue | cs.ubc | mcdcchg ] ! richp1 ! kjohn|
pokey@well.UUCP (Jef Poskanzer) (12/10/88)
In the referenced message, kjohn@richp1.UUCP (John K. Counsultant) wrote: } I disagree, Rich, PLEASE POST THE REST OF THE SAO DATASET. It }*does* have uses for more people than you would think. I personally :-), }have two uses: 1) I am planning a grand version of a StarTrek/SpaceWar type }game and would like to use the dataset to add some realism to it. 2) I }also would like to create an animation on my system showing interselllar }travel. Unfortunately, there is no way to use this data set for things like this, where you need the third coordinate. It looks to me like you need either absolute mag or spectral type in addition to the apparent mag supplied with the data. Please correct me if I'm wrong about this, since I would also like to use this data for such a simulation. --- Jef Jef Poskanzer jef@rtsg.ee.lbl.gov ...well!pokey Revised and Enlarged
peter@ficc.uu.net (Peter da Silva) (12/11/88)
I agree that this doesn't belong in comp.sources.unix. I disagree that it doesn't belong on the net. comp.sources.misc would be an appropriate place for it. By the way, we never got part 1. I'm not asking for a repost... we didn't save any of the parts either, preferring to let uunet provide the disk space, but it'd be nice if someone in texas would mail me a copy of the readme so I could see just what it was... :->. -- Peter da Silva `-_-' Ferranti International Controls Corporation "Have you hugged U your wolf today?" uunet.uu.net!ficc!peter Disclaimer: I accept full responsibility for my typos. peter@ficc.uu.net
jeff@cjsa.WA.COM (Jeffery Small) (12/11/88)
In article <1280@vsi1.UUCP>, lmb@vsi1.UUCP (Larry Blair) writes: > In article <1249@fig.bbn.com> rsalz@uunet.uu.net (Rich Salz) writes: >=The following describes the SAO (Smithsonian Astronomical Observatory) dataset >=reduced to RA/DECL/MAG records and posted in ASCII format in 48 parts. > > HEY! 3MB of posting for extremely limited interest? I strongly urge you, > Rich, to not send the rest of this out in this manner. I'm sure there must > be a much better channel for distribution. I have to second this in light of the fact that I have been waiting for three months for the ELM ver-2 software to be posted. What is the posting strategy for this group? Could we have an idea of what is in the queue and when we can expect it? Thanks. -- Jeffery Small (206) 485-5596 uw-beaver!uw-nsr!uw-warp C. Jeffery Small and Associates !cjsa!jeff 19112 152nd Ave NE - Woodinville, WA 98072 uunet!nwnexus
val@swamps.UUCP (val) (12/11/88)
In article <12369@cup.portal.com> thad@cup.portal.com (Thad P Floryan) writes: >Contrary to Larry Blair's comments, I believe I speak for the THOUSANDS of >us for whom the SAO database and programs ARE important; those of us without >the 9-track tape drives and etc. for which distribution on Usenet is truly a >godsend. My vote is to continue the posting. -- -Val ...rutgers!rochester!kodak!swamps!val
battan@tc.fluke.COM (Jim Battan) (12/12/88)
Since the GAO dataset is of relatively limited interest, it might have
been more happily accepted if the "source" had been simply announced and
made available via an FTP/UUCP archive server, ala' Sun-Spots or alt.gourmand.
Thus, only those interested in it could have requested it.
Perhaps comp.archives could have played a part in this.
--
Jim Battan (+1 206 356 6469)
battan@tc.fluke.COM || {sun,uw-beaver,decvax!microsoft}!fluke!battanjbayer@ispi.UUCP (Jonathan Bayer) (12/12/88)
In article <1280@vsi1.UUCP>, lmb@vsi1.UUCP (Larry Blair) writes: > In article <1249@fig.bbn.com> rsalz@uunet.uu.net (Rich Salz) writes: > =The following describes the SAO (Smithsonian Astronomical Observatory) dataset, > =reduced to RA/DECL/MAG records and posted in ASCII format in 48 parts. > > HEY! 3MB of posting for extremely limited interest? I strongly urge you, > Rich, to not send the rest of this out in this manner. I'm sure there must > be a much better channel for distribution. I agree. This is a strong argument for maintaining at archive sites this kind of distribution, and publishing a notice in comp.sources... that it is available and where to get it from. Jonathan Bayer Intelligent Software Products, Inc.
thad@cup.portal.com (Thad P Floryan) (12/13/88)
Re: all the fuss and controversy surrounding the posting of something genuinely useful (the SAO database) ... WHY aren't there any "gripes" when mega multi-part game sources are posted to the net? Seems to me that some people's priorities are in need of frobozzed and bifurcated attitude adjustments! :-) (and xyzzy to you, too) Hey, lighten up. At least people aren't posting X-rated pictures to the net. Thad Floryan [thad@cup.portal.com (OR) ..!sun!portal!cup.portal.com!thad]
lee@uhccux.uhcc.hawaii.edu (Greg Lee) (12/14/88)
From article <346@ispi.UUCP>, by jbayer@ispi.UUCP (Jonathan Bayer):
" In article <1280@vsi1.UUCP>, lmb@vsi1.UUCP (Larry Blair) writes:
"...
" > HEY! 3MB of posting for extremely limited interest? I strongly urge you,
" > Rich, to not send the rest of this out in this manner. I'm sure there must
" > be a much better channel for distribution.
"
" I agree. This is a strong argument for maintaining at archive sites this
" kind of distribution, and publishing a notice in comp.sources... that it
" is available and where to get it from.
I was happy to see the data posted. I hope more such data is (how
about some dictionaries?). There are sites with no access to archives.
Until last summer, my site had none, except for those few with
email archive servers. No ftp. No telephone line for uucp. I read
discussion of lots of interesting programs and data, mouth watering ...
Greg, lee@uhccux.uhcc.hawaii.eduhintz@tramp.Colorado.EDU (HINTZ THOMAS ANDREW) (12/14/88)
In article <12568@cup.portal.com> thad@cup.portal.com (Thad P Floryan) writes: >Re: all the fuss and controversy surrounding the posting of something >genuinely useful (the SAO database) ... > >WHY aren't there any "gripes" when mega multi-part game sources are posted >to the net? > >Seems to me that some people's priorities are in need of frobozzed and >bifurcated attitude adjustments! :-) (and xyzzy to you, too) > >Hey, lighten up. At least people aren't posting X-rated pictures to the net. > > >Thad Floryan [thad@cup.portal.com (OR) ..!sun!portal!cup.portal.com!thad] I think that extensive database are a good idea. I have not yet recived all the pieces to this one yet, but I am anxious for the remaining few so I can see just what this one does! I wouldn't gripe about anything being sent through the net (even X-rated pictures!). I have recieved many usefull and helpfull items. As a matter of fact, the only thing that gets up me (esp. in source news groups) is extensive arguing. So, before I get annoyed at myself, I will be off. Tom Hintz hintz@tramp.colorado.edu ncar!boulder!tramp!hintz
peter@ficc.uu.net (Peter da Silva) (12/14/88)
In article <12568@cup.portal.com>, thad@cup.portal.com (Thad P Floryan) writes: > Re: all the fuss and controversy surrounding the posting of something > genuinely useful (the SAO database) ... > WHY aren't there any "gripes" when mega multi-part game sources are posted > to the net? Because they're posted in the right group... comp.sources.games... and so are less likely to be gotten directly from uunet. The correct group for this posting would have been comp.sources.misc. I was SOOOOO glad when comp.sources.x showed up. Now why can't people stick their NeWS and other bitmapped stuff in there as well? -- Peter da Silva `-_-' Ferranti International Controls Corporation "Have you hugged U your wolf today?" uunet.uu.net!ficc!peter Disclaimer: I accept full responsibility for my typos. peter@ficc.uu.net
art@felix.UUCP (Art Dederick) (12/16/88)
In article <12568@cup.portal.com> thad@cup.portal.com (Thad P Floryan) writes: >Hey, lighten up. At least people aren't posting X-rated pictures to the net. So why not? X-rated has a place too you know. How about some provocative pics netters? (Now where did I put that asbestos suit...) Art D. hplabs!felix!art
hermit@shockeye.UUCP (Mark Buda) (12/16/88)
In article <12568@cup.portal.com> thad@cup.portal.com (Thad P Floryan) writes: >Hey, lighten up. At least people aren't posting X-rated pictures to the net. Isn't that what comp.sources.x is for? :-) -- Mark Buda / Smart UUCP: hermit@shockeye.uucp / Phone(work):(717)299-5189 Dumb UUCP: ...rutgers!bpa!vu-vlsi!devon!shockeye!hermit I hate this $%$@%!$@%!@$%@#$@!% machine. "A little suction does wonders." - Gary Collins
craig@ge1cbx.UUCP (Craig W. Shaver) (12/17/88)
Long, long ago (late 60's), in a land far away (New Jiosy), some space nuts built an operating system to plot stars (or something like that). I like seeing stuff like this come thru. I am thankful for all of the good things, along with all of the bad and I like rich salz and the job he is doing. A merry christmas and a happy new year to all........ Craig W. Shaver ================================================================ Quotron Systems Inc. | Phone: (213) 302-4247 5454 Beethoven Street | uucp: trwrb!scgvaxd!janus!trdrjo!craig Post Office Box 66914 | Los Angeles, CA 90066 | ================================================================
allbery@ncoast.UUCP (Brandon S. Allbery) (12/18/88)
As quoted from <2420@ficc.uu.net> by peter@ficc.uu.net (Peter da Silva): +--------------- | I agree that this doesn't belong in comp.sources.unix. I disagree that it | doesn't belong on the net. comp.sources.misc would be an appropriate place | for it. +--------------- Aaaack. There goes the disk space....! ;-) ++Brandon -- Brandon S. Allbery, comp.sources.misc moderator and one admin of ncoast PA UN*X uunet!hal.cwru.edu!ncoast!allbery ncoast!allbery@hal.cwru.edu comp.sources.misc is moving off ncoast -- please do NOT send submissions direct Send comp.sources.misc submissions to comp-sources-misc@<backbone>.
childers@avsd.UUCP (Richard Childers) (12/18/88)
In article <2812@uhccux.uhcc.hawaii.edu> lee@uhccux.uhcc.hawaii.edu (Greg Lee) writes: >" > HEY! 3MB of posting for extremely limited interest? >" I agree. This is a strong argument for maintaining archive sites ... >I was happy to see the data posted. I hope more such data is (how >about some dictionaries?). Boo-boo-pucky. It's choked my modem up for a week so far. News has gone to hell. All I see is one huge file being transmitted for half an hour, often it's so big it encounters a checksum error and has to restart as a result of accumulated line noise. >Until last summer, my site had none, except for those few with >email archive servers. No ftp. No telephone line for uucp. I read >discussion of lots of interesting programs and data, mouth watering ... Tough. Use the U S mails. Or bring a modem in from home and use your phone. > Greg, lee@uhccux.uhcc.hawaii.edu -- richard -- * "... where there is no movement, there is no perception." * * Ribot, _The Psychology of Attention_ * * ..{amdahl|decwrl|octopus|pyramid|ucbvax}!avsd.UUCP!childers@tycho * * AMPEX Corporation - Audio-Visual Systems Division, R & D *
stacy@mcl.UUCP (Stacy L. Millions) (12/22/88)
In article <332@avsd.UUCP>, childers@avsd.UUCP (Richard Childers) writes: > Boo-boo-pucky. It's choked my modem up for a week so far. News has gone to > hell. All I see is one huge file being transmitted for half an hour, often > it's so big it encounters a checksum error and has to restart as a result > of accumulated line noise. > > ..... > > Tough. Use the U S mails. Or bring a modem in from home and use your phone. > Boo-boo-pucky to you too. Tough. Maybe you should get a better modem. The only line problem that my TB+ has much trouble with is a busy signal. I have always said, "You can never have too much information". I might never use this data, but I am glad to have it. -stacy -- "He to whom the early bird runs best learns wisdom and patience! ... I can never remember proverbs" - Charlie Brown S. L. Millions ..!tmsoft!mcl!stacy
steven@lakesys.UUCP (Steven Goodman) (12/23/88)
In article <576@mcl.UUCP> stacy@mcl.UUCP (Stacy L. Millions) writes: >In article <332@avsd.UUCP>, childers@avsd.UUCP (Richard Childers) writes: >> Boo-boo-pucky. It's choked my modem up for a week so far. News has gone to >> hell. All I see is one huge file being transmitted for half an hour, often >> it's so big it encounters a checksum error and has to restart as a result >> of accumulated line noise. >> >> ..... >> >> Tough. Use the U S mails. Or bring a modem in from home and use your phone. >> > From what I have seen programs of this size are somewhat "rare" and I find it difficult to see what the problem is. There are bound to be people "out there" whom find listings like this to be extremely useful. I suggest we give this discussion a rest, if this kind of code is useful to even a small handful of people it is good information to distribute. I can simpathsize with people's modems and disk drives when news gets LARGE but, I believe there is some responcibility that must be considered when code is sent and when distributing news. I administer some fairly LARGE computers and news has managed at some times to bring them to their knees, I batch and ship off news to approx. a dozen sites. Spools overflow, inodes run out as do CPU cycles. There have been times where the error messages come to the console SO FAST that I cannot even log into it! Even with a small hanful of "TrailBlazers" I have seen them all busy shipping news into my machines for HOUR after HOUR. But it is worth the trouble, worth all the problems if this information finds it's way to someone whom will appreciate it. -- Steven M. Goodman Lake Systems - Milwaukee, Wisconsin uunet!marque!lakesys!steven uwvax!uwmcsd1!lakesys!steven
childers@avsd.UUCP (Richard Childers) (01/01/89)
In article <576@mcl.UUCP> stacy@mcl.UUCP (Stacy L. Millions) writes: >In article <332@avsd.UUCP>, childers@avsd.UUCP (Richard Childers) writes: >> Boo-boo-pucky. It's choked my modem up for a week so far. . . . >> Tough. Use the U S mails. Or bring a modem in from home and use your phone. >Tough. Maybe you should get a better modem. The only line problem that >my TB+ has much trouble with is a busy signal. I *have* a TB+, dinkleberry. And I have a few questions as to how often it is your responsibility to maintain the UUCP lines, as opposed to being yet another opinionated net-news reader without substantial experience. >I have always said, "You can never have too much information". I might >never use this data, but I am glad to have it. Goddess save us from the packrat mentality. I'll bet you save all of your mail for eons into the past, for obscure political leverage, too. Freud had a name for people like you ... I don't even have to wonder, I *know* that some day you will encounter an experience that will make you, implicitly or explicitly, change your mind. Assuming you have one. I have nothing against information. I *do* think there's a better way to distribute it, like anonymous FTP or UUCP. Common courtesy dictates that one not burden the net with stuff that's not going to be used. My father is an astronomer, I know the value of such data, I know how many astronomers there are out there, and I say it was a waste of everybody's time to distribute it that way. >-stacy -- richard >"He to whom the early bird runs best learns wisdom and patience! > ... I can never remember proverbs" - Charlie Brown >S. L. Millions ..!tmsoft!mcl!stacy -- * Supernovae are a blast * * * * ..{amdahl|decwrl|octopus|pyramid|ucbvax}!avsd.UUCP!childers@tycho * * AMPEX Corporation - Audio-Visual Systems Division, R & D *