xanthian@zorch.SF-Bay.ORG (Kent Paul Dolan) (03/07/91)
[LOOK AT the header and any results of using it; this is not a standard
vanilla posting; almost everything up there has been edited to a purpose.]
I received the following by email, with a request to post it. I find the
anti-Japanese sentiments expressed here personally deeply offensive, and
the world view warped beyond all contact with reality. I just despise
censorship even more than the attitudes expressed here, and feel the
author has the right to answer my public posting in a public forum.
Please respond to the originator,
fernwood!well!apple!rins.ryukoku.ac.jp!will
not to me. With a certain amount of luck, the "Reply-To" line I set up
pointed to the part of that from apple on down will be what your news
software grabs for email, but check!
Since the subject matter is really not suitable for comp.sources.d any
more, I have included talk.politics.misc, and redirected followups there
and to alt.flame (the likely appropriate group for most responses to
this kind of material.) I didn't have the meanness of spirit to post it
to soc.culture.japan. but the thought did cross my mind; I just don't
happen to need a loud flamewar from which to slyly misdirect postings
right now, so why stir one up?
Except for shortening the email header and boxing it to protect the news
software, this note is just as I received it.
Kent, the man from xanth.
<xanthian@Zorch.SF-Bay.ORG> <xanthian@well.sf.ca.us>
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| From pyramid!fernwood!well!apple!rins.ryukoku.ac.jp!will |
| Wed Mar 6 16:06:29 1991 |
| Return-Path: <pyramid!fernwood!well!apple!rins.ryukoku.ac.jp!will> |
| From: fernwood!well!apple!rins.ryukoku.ac.jp!will |
| Date: Wed, 6 Mar 91 10:51:05 JST |
| Return-Path: <will@rins.ryukoku.ac.jp> |
| Message-Id: <9103060151.AA27719@rins.ryukoku.ac.jp> |
| To: xanthian@well.sf.ca.us |
| |
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Since I cannot seem to post this as yet, I will try to mail it to you.
The following is a reply to your comments. It is not intended to be a FLAME.
It is intended to give a constructive out-look on your comments. I do not
pretend that what I say is right, I may well be wrong. It is not intended to
be bias in any way. I always try to keep an open mind on things. If you can
add any constructive comments to this please reply. If you would like you may
post this for me. "I have to investigate as to why I cannot post as of yet.
In fact, Please, post it for me if you can.
Will......
---------- Cut Here ---------------------- For Posting ------------------------
> --text follows this line--
> **** Note newsgroups, followup line!!!!
>
> [AT&T legal slime is harassing X11 users over the patented "backing store"
> method of saving obscured parts of overlapping windows, with an offer of
> "licenses". Original legal letter is posted in gnu.g++.announce.]
How do you know that they are slime? AT&T has a right to protect it's company
property. That is what a patent is for,( to protect property ). If it was
your patent, I am sure your would be suing the world, to get your part of the
pie.
>
> Pretty disgusting; if you read Pike's original paper, it is an
> incredibly generic description of an algorithm that any any second year
> grad student would be itching to take apart and make into something
> useful. It is link list based when it obviously needs to be hashed for
> speed, for example, with any commercially interesting number of windows
> in use, and it is a self evident extension of prior manual cut and paste
> art and cel animation art.
>
I have'nt seen this patent but I would probably have to say that they did the
hard part, ( inventing it ), with their companys money and resources. I am
sure that when it was invented it was'nt so trivial. It's always trivial once
you have the answers.
> This is nevertheless an incredible threat to the whole workstation industry;
> the AmigaOS system at which I type uses Pike's algorithm (unmodified, from
> the relatively doggy speed of it), for example.
I really do not think that the AT&T move is going to be half as much as a threat
as the Japanese are when we start using thier patents, most of which were
purchased (at cheap prices and in many cases given to Japan free) from both the
United States and Europe.
>
> I read recently elsewhere on the net about a firm whose only business is
> buying up idle patents from people who aren't using them, and suing "patent
> violators" for the funds that are their profits.
The Japanese (MITI) has been doing this for years. If this is an American of
European company, and the article was in bad taste about the firm doing this,
I would have to call it propaganda on MITI's part. The Japanese despise foreign
competition on any level and still consider foreigner's to be a threat to thier
country.
The Japanese have never made any contributions to the World of any value,
(unless you call WWII valuable), and use technology for their own selfish
interests, and in many many cases even steal it from AT&T and other U.S.
companies.
In 1857, Masayoshi Hotta( the shoguns's adviser said, when competition
between Japan and the United States began):
"I am therefore convinced that our policy should be to stake
everything on the present opportunity, TO CONCLUDE FRIENDLY ALLIANCES,
to send ships to foreign countries everywhere and conduct trade, to
copy the foreigners where they are at thier best and so repair our own
shortcomings, to foster our national strength and complete our
armaments, and so gradually subject the foreigners to our influence
until in the end all the countries of the world know the blessings of
perfect tranquillity and OUR hegemony is acknowleged throughout the
globe".
The Japanese live by these words to this day, and it clearly shows what their
intentions are. They learned in WWII that they could not do it by force. They
did learned however from the U.S. that you could however do it by Economics.
Today NYSE said "that it wants to make it easier for foreign companys
to enter into the exchange". I would say that many people would dis-miss this
action, untill they learn that all foreign companies in Japan are virtually not
allowed onto the Japan Stock Exchange. They let a few on to limit public
resentment, but it's only for political gains, nothing more. It also show's
who America's real bankers are, not American (they have been bought out), they
are Japanese. That's right, when you send you child to college, it will be
with Japanese money, not American and when GM wants to get a loan to stay in
business to compete against Japan, it will also be Japanese money. So, what
happens when the Japanese decide that your child does not need to go to college
or GM no longer needs to build cars?
>
> Looks like AT&T has joined the lists of those who can't produce commercially
> competitive products, and so have decided to recover operating expenses by
> suing those who can but don't maintain big suites of lawyers.
>
Again, you have to see that AT&T are looking after thier own interests. Put
yourself in thier place. Are you so kind, after being shitted on by the U.S.
government to just give your companys assets away? If American company's are
not allowed to protect thier assets, then why do we have patents? The Japanese
have been and still are taking a free ride on X-Windows. Because we are giving
it to them with no restrictions. They sure have'nt given anything of value to
the U.S.. Sony, Sumitomo WorkStations Group, Toshiba, Sharp, and other Japanese
companys will be making Billions of dollars, while U.S. companies with be making
bread crumbs from X-Windows (because we cannot market in Japan, without complete
transfer of technology to MITI). At which point the technology is then sent to
the appropiate Japanese companies and reversed engineered. Still happens to
this very day. The U.S. people are basically stupid and foolish.
> Maybe this is a big enough item to finally gather enough amicus curae to
> return the patent rules to the ones in the law: you can't license
> breathing, and you can't patent algorithms and other laws of nature.
>
> I wonder if this falls far enough back in time that AT&T was still under
> court strictures not to be in the computer business, and so could be
> defended as owned by phone customers (essentially, the public) rather
> than the phone company, like Unix should be?
>
> I'm not a great fan of Copyleft, but its merits are starting to grow on me.
> Now if only shareware returned adequate living expenses.
>
I guess that if a patent was awarded on this issue then it did fall into the
framework of patent laws. I don't see the patent office just giving unwarranted
patents away, anyway that would be the patent office not AT&T's problem as far
as issuing the patent.
I am American and have now lived in Japan for more than 8 years, I
respect the Japanese, they are good people. But I am basically at some
disagreement as to Japanese policys and thier effects on my country. As well
as to the U.S. policy, of having no policy. Untill the U.S. considers the
Japanese as a threat to national security, I don't think any changes will ever
come about.
I am confident however that the recent gulf war will send a new and
very powerfull message to washington.
1) The U.S. cannot maintain it's leading position in the world
unless drastic measures are taken to preserve our Economy.
2) Japan presented a threat to the U.S. during the Gulf war by
reminding us of our reliance of U.S. technology manufactured by
the Japanese and their statement that during "THIS" crisis that
they would not CUT US OFF from critical semiconductors needed
for our weapons.
" What will happen next time?"
3) The U.S. cannot deploy massive troops needed in the time of
war, without first "BEGGING" other countries such as Japan
for money. I am sure that Baker had to kiss kiafus' hand in
return for money that was never given. And the U.S. is still
begging Japan for the $9 Billion. Bush should feel disgraced
by this action.
4) I hope that Congress finds that by just blamming each other for
current Economic Problems and the Infrastructure Disintagrating
in the U.S. does nothing to solve the problems. It is time to
work together and re-build America.
I think (not sure now) it goes somthing like this:
" United we (the American People) stand, Devided we
will most surely fall".
The Japanese and other foriegn countries have devided us long
enough. They have turned us against each other. It is now
time that we band together and stand together to undo this
situation. Next year when we vote for a Government Official
let us take a good look at his real record, not the one that
he tries to sell us. See if he was one of many U.S. elected
officials taking payoffs from MITI and other Japanese
organizations.
5) If the U.S. cannot fiqure these simple things out then the
current matter with AT&T, won't matter. Because it's new
name will be NT&T (Nipon Telephone and Telegraph).
I am not an expert in these areas. My references for this were:
Trading Places. "book"
The Japanese Enigma. "book"
and my experience among the Japanese people.
I am not a Japan Basher, nor am I anti-japanese. I only love my country and want
to help it any way I can. If anything I say here can contribute to that cause
and make even a little difference then I have done some service.
And last but not least, let us not forget that many of the negotiators
for the U.S. government that were negotiating for American Industry to enter
into Japan, have betrayed the U.S. and it's people and were on MITI's payroll
during and after negotiations were completed, others sent letters to MITI asking
for Jobs when the negotiations were complete.
So you see, the Japanese never had to worry about U.S. policy, they made
it.
William Dee Rieken
Researcher, Computer Visualization
Faculty of Science and Technology
Ryukoku University
Seta, Otsu 520-21,
Japan
Tel: 0775-43-7418(direct)
Fax: 0775-43-7749
will@rins.ryukoku.ac.jpbbh@mtek.com (Bud Hovell @ Mtek) (03/10/91)
In article <1991Mar7.045031.13940@zorch.SF-Bay.ORG> apple!rins.ryukoku.ac.jp!will writes:
<I received the following by email, with a request to post it. I find the
<anti-Japanese sentiments expressed here personally deeply offensive, and
<the world view warped beyond all contact with reality. I just despise
<censorship even more than the attitudes expressed here, and feel the
<author has the right to answer my public posting in a public forum.
That you have concluded that the article is "anti-Japanese", and that
you are thus moved to be "deeply offended" may be a commentary on the
real problem the author describes.
Also, it would appear that the author has a considerable advantage on
anyone who has neither worked nor lived for a period in Japan. His
resulting views should be listened to with greater care, if only because
that view has been shaped by direct experience, not distant idealization.
<the world view warped beyond all contact with reality. I just despise
Unless you have personally lived for some period in a non-Western society,
it is, by definition, *your* world view that is certain to be "warped".
Your certainty about what you "despise" would suggest that you've never
had that experience - at all.
It is interesting that of those Westerners who *have* lived and worked in
Japan, a very large number of them come away struck by the sense that there
are some very serious threats posed by Japanese trade and industrial policy,
and that these threats do *not* originate solely from the ability of the
Japanese to do the job better. The facts they cite about how the Japanese
operate will be cold comfort to those who refuse to believe that they are
endangered. These concerns have been expressed even by news correspondents
who live and report out of Japan.
To cite a recent example, there was a program presented on C-SPAN showing
an interview with American reporters who have lived and worked in Japan
for periods of time ranging from 1.5-18 years. Brian Lamb, at the end of
the interview, asked what each of the reporters was most struck by when
they returned to the U.S. to visit.
The first reporter to respond said "I am struck by how little awareness
there is by Americans of just what they are up against - that the threat
from Japan is getting almost no meaningful response from Americans, who
tend to discount how great that threat really is. They simply don't
understand, and continue to live in blissful ignorance.", or words to that
effect. (C-SPAN furnishes transcripts, if anyone would like to go check
this out, since I do *not* claim to remember the precise phrasing).
When polled, *all* of the other (4?) reporters agreed that this was also
what most struck them upon re-visiting the U.S.
You may want to consider that if you believe that someone is trying to
do you in, and they really *are*, then that belief rests not in paranoia,
ethnocentrism, racism, or a need to "bash".
If someone is trying to do you in, and you refuse to accept that this
is even a possibility, then Darwin will once again be proven right.
I lived in Japan when I was quite young, and found the Japanese people
to be some of the most intelligent, kind, and graceful I've ever been
privileged to know. Their traditional cultural values impress me to
this day, and I respect them greatly. If anyone ever had ample cause to
idealize that people, then certainly it is I.
But I also recognize that among those values is stoic perseverence and
dedication to a long-term goal. The Japanese take the long view, unlike
Americans, and fully recognize that winning the *important* battles
determines the outcome of the long-term campaign. And "winning" is a
big deal, whatever their current Constitution may say.
Before becoming "deeply offended", one might do well to gather a few
confirmable facts, which facts may disturb comfortable - and dangerous -
assumptions about a dedicated adversary who demonstrates mastery of the
tools of hegimony.
Patrick Moynihan: "We are each entitled to our own opinion, but *no one*
is entitled to his own *facts*."
____________
bud@mtek.com
"The aggressor is a man of peace. He wants nothing more than to march into
a neighboring country unresisted." - Clausewitzxanthian@zorch.SF-Bay.ORG (Kent Paul Dolan) (03/12/91)
bbh@mtek.com (Bud Hovell @ Mtek) writes: [the subject is Japan] > You may want to consider that if you believe that someone is trying to > do you in, and they really *are*, then that belief rests not in > paranoia, ethnocentrism, racism, or a need to "bash". > If someone is trying to do you in, and you refuse to accept that this > is even a possibility, then Darwin will once again be proven right. > But I also recognize that among those values is stoic perseverence and > dedication to a long-term goal. The Japanese take the long view, > unlike Americans, and fully recognize that winning the *important* > battles determines the outcome of the long-term campaign. And > "winning" is a big deal, whatever their current Constitution may say. The Japanese are doing an _excellent_ job of running a national economy with a focus on prosperity and the national well being. They have struck a good balance between regulation and cooperation between industry and government. They have struck a good balance between social welfare and requiring an active contribution to the economy from each citizen. They have struck a good balance between competetion and cooperation within industry. They have assured that their banking system supports, rather than preys upon, their economy. They have struck a good balance between personal liberty and social harmony. They have struck a good balance between respect for the past and an eye to the future, and made both innovation and preservation explicit, legislated national efforts with funding and supervision. They are excellent at deferring present consumption in favor of future well being, and also stockpile for bad times. They plan far beyond the next quarterly earnings statement. They have a tax system that promotes prosperity while funding the government and maintaining the collective national physical plant. They have given up adventuring on foreign shores or trying to tell the rest of the world how to run its affairs (except by example), and run a minimal armed service that is a limited drain on the national economy. They provide education on a competitive basis, and make it a high ideal, so that each citizen is motivated to pursue and accept education to the personal limits achievable. In each and every one of these areas the US has fallen down as a people and as a nation. Our stupidity is not the responsibility of the Japanese, nor do they owe us the courtesy of slowing down while we catch up. They need not do anything at all to see to the downfall of the US economy except keep out of the way, wait patiently, and look out not to be in the path of the damage when we do ourselves in by greed, laziness, corruption, stupidity, inefficiency, bad law, and short-sightedness. To try to warp their looking out for their own best interests and us failing to do so into a conspiracy on their part to do us active harm is bigotry of the highest order; it says that they are _incapable_ of acting on their own behalf out of "pure" motives of self improvement. Sure the Japanese economy is scary; it is a scary reminder of how rotten a job we are doing here, and how much better we could be doing. Kent, the man from xanth. <xanthian@Zorch.SF-Bay.ORG> <xanthian@well.sf.ca.us>