Ralf.Brown@B.GP.CS.CMU.EDU (06/24/88)
From: Matthew Franckiewicz
To: All Msg #86, 21-Jun-88 02:38pm
Subject: Byte4
FLAME ON AGAIN
For the benefit of those of you who missed previous episodes of this soap
opera: In late 1987, I subscribed to Byte Magazine. I sent them a check for a
two year subscription. Although they cashed my check, they sent me a dunning
letter, and a "Notice of Cancellation". I responded to both with notes saying
that I had paid the bill. I have yet to be graced by a response to either of
my notes. When my bank statement arrived, indicating that my check was
cancelled before the subscription was, I called their customer service (ha!)
number. I related the situation, and requested a refund. The customer
service
(ha!) representative promised to send one. Nothing happened, and I telephoned
the customer service (ha!) number again on March 10. During an interminable
conversation with an alleged person, I stated, iterated and reiterated the
facts. Again I received a promise of a refund, supposedly to arrive in about
5 weeks. Subsequently, Byte began arriving. By this time, I did not want
the magazine, and regarded its arrival as an insult.
OK, now for the news. Of course, the promise of the customer service (ha!)
representative was, once again, not kept. I telephoned again on April 27, and
spoke with a different customer service (ha!) representative, in this case one
who was probably smarter than the average turnip. She told me that from what
she could see, nothing at all had happened regarding my refund. She said she
would initiate the process, but was not optimistic.
I thereupon wrote a letter to the president of McGraw Hill, on my legal
letterhead, setting forth the facts. He responded with a letter saying he was
directing someone to investigate, and that someone would contact me within one
week. This was one promise from McGraw-Hill which was almost kept. I
received a subsequent letter, dated 7 days after the previous letter, but
postmarked 10 days after the previous letter. This second letter did not
reach me until substantially later, however, perhaps because of the address
on the envelope, which I reproduce verbatim below:
Mr. Matthew M. Franckiewicz
Attorney at Law
902 Lincoln Highway
North Versailles, PA 15137
1000 East Main St.
Plainfield, Indiana 46168
(Are these guys the gang that can't shoot straight, or what?)
(Continued next message.)
... ...-....
--- ConfMail V3.31
* Origin: NEVERBOARD Pittsburgh [Alternet 522/2] [DR_DEBUG HUB] (1:129/18)
From: Matthew Franckiewicz
To: All Msg #87, 21-Jun-88 02:39pm
Subject: Byte5
This second letter promised a refund, and said that I should receive it within
10 days. Imagine my lack of surprise when no refund arrived. After about 3
weeks had passed, I telephoned the sender of the second letter (yes, collect,
of course). I was told that he was not there. The following week he returned
my call, leaving a message on my answering machine. I called him again at
about 2:30 p.m. (same time zone) and was told he was out to lunch. (While
this may explain a lot about the nature of the problem, I strain to resist
the temptation to say something obvious.) I left another message, but he has
never replied to it, and I doubt he ever will.
Yesterday, June 13, merely a month and 3 days after the letter which promised
a refund within 10 days, a check arrived. The check was dated June 9. I
have not yet attempted to cash this check, and when I do take it to the bank,
I will do so with some trepidation.
In summary, it took me five telephone calls, two notes, a letter on my legal
stationery, about four hours of my time, and nearly six months, to induce Byte
Magazine and/or McGraw-Hill to provide restitution for their error.
If you are considering a subscription to Byte, you must ask yourself whether
you are willing to risk being subjected to the same treatment I received.
(And if you are not a lawyer, perhaps you may risk even worse treatment.)
Moreover, where an organization cannot accurately state what it is going to
do, can you believe its statements about what a piece of hardware of software
is going to do?
--- ConfMail V3.31
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--
UUCP: {ucbvax,harvard}!cs.cmu.edu!ralf -=-=-=- Voice: (412) 268-3053 (school)
ARPA: ralf@cs.cmu.edu BIT: ralf%cs.cmu.edu@CMUCCVMA FIDO: Ralf Brown 1:129/31
Disclaimer? I |
claimed something?| Insert your favorite quote hereR_Tim_Coslet@cup.portal.com (06/26/88)
In Message-ID: <22c1ccc2@ralf> From: Ralf.Brown@B.GP.CS.CMU.EDU , He writes: > >From: Matthew Franckiewicz >To: All Msg #86, 21-Jun-88 02:38pm >Subject: Byte4 > >FLAME ON AGAIN > [_LONG_ story of problems with Byte Subscription, deleted] > >In summary, it took me five telephone calls, two notes, a letter on my legal >stationery, about four hours of my time, and nearly six months, to induce Byte >Magazine and/or McGraw-Hill to provide restitution for their error. > >If you are considering a subscription to Byte, you must ask yourself whether >you are willing to risk being subjected to the same treatment I received. >(And if you are not a lawyer, perhaps you may risk even worse treatment.) >Moreover, where an organization cannot accurately state what it is going to >do, can you believe its statements about what a piece of hardware of software >is going to do? I don't know, these things do happen but I think this is an anomaly. I am a charter subscriber to Byte (I have _every_ issue from Vol 1 # 1, something like 150 issues). Byte is one of the few magazines I have had no problems with, I have had every missed issue promptly replaced (including a couple that eventually showed up in the mail, a couple MONTHs late! I got the replacements long before the originals arrived). I have had more trouble with Consumer Reports than I have with Byte. (In response to a missing issue complaint to CR they only said... "Our records show that we mailed that issue to you. If you have further problems report them to your Postmaster." Yes... I already HAD as a couple other Mag.s were missing that month... Byte Immediately sent a replacement.) R. Tim Coslet Usenet: R_Tim_Coslet@cup.portal.com BIX: r.tim_coslet
dkhusema@faui44.informatik.uni-erlangen.de (Dirk Husemann) (06/28/88)
From article <6862@cup.portal.com>, by R_Tim_Coslet@cup.portal.com: > In Message-ID: <22c1ccc2@ralf> > From: Ralf.Brown@B.GP.CS.CMU.EDU , He writes: >> >>From: Matthew Franckiewicz >>To: All Msg #86, 21-Jun-88 02:38pm >>Subject: Byte4 >> >>FLAME ON AGAIN >> > [_LONG_ story of problems with Byte Subscription, deleted] >> > > I don't know, these things do happen but I think this is an anomaly. > [ Other stuff deleted.] > > R. Tim Coslet > > Usenet: R_Tim_Coslet@cup.portal.com > BIX: r.tim_coslet I don't know wether this is an anomaly or not. Back in 1987 (around January) I subscribed to BYTE. Everything went smoothly. Well - almost every- thing, for when I moved to a different place and informed BYTE of my new ad- dress, the following thing happened: (1) Besides of getting BYTE at the beginning of each month by air mail - which I had paid for - at my *old* address (West German Postal Ser- vice forwarded it to my new place), I started receiving BYTE also by surface mail at the *end* of the month (Good luck for my little bro- ther for he got the surplus editions w/o paying DM 16.00/US$ 10.00). Writing to McGrawHill didn't change a thing (three letters). Okay, I thought, it's their money, forget it (besides my brother really like those freebies ...). (2) In October 1987 I got a couple of letters each asking me to pro- long my subscribtion to BYTE for another year. Great, I said to my- self, let's take that letter which reached me at my new address and subscribe for another year of air mail service. Said, done. (3) Those nasty little letters kept trudging in. Each one threatening me that my subscription will end real soon now. Panic. I wrote two more letters to McGrawHill - yup, you guessed it, no answer. (4) February 1988: I get a letter stating that that month' isssue is definitly the last one I'll get, unless I decide to subscribe for another ... . Well, I decide to wait and see, after all my check for the 1988 subscription has already been drawn. (5) March 1988: SURPRISE! I did receive BYTE magazine at the begin- ning of the month by air mail. Okay, I thought, this time they got it right (after a year ...). But - (6) April 1988: When I look into my post box, what do I see? TWO issues of BYTE magazine by AIR MAIL. Somebody sure does like my little brother, doesn't he? Any comment? -Dirk ------------------ Smile, tomorrow will be worse! ------------- Business: Dirk Husemann Home: Dirk Husemann Friedrich-Alexander University Aufsess-Str. 19 Erlangen-Nuremberg D-8520 Erlangen Comp.Science Dep. IMMD IV West Germany Martensstrasse 1 +49 9131 302036 D-8520 Erlangen West Germany +49 9131 857908 email: dkhusema@faui44.informatik.uni-erlangen.de ------------------ Did I say smile? Forget it! ---------------- Disclaimer: The opinions, views, statements, ..., expressed here are NOT those of the university nor those of the student body as a whole. In fact, they're mine! ---------------------------------------------------------------
peter@sugar.UUCP (Peter da Silva) (06/28/88)
In article <6862@cup.portal.com>, R_Tim_Coslet@cup.portal.com writes: > From: Ralf.Brown@B.GP.CS.CMU.EDU , He writes: > >From: Matthew Franckiewicz > [_LONG_ story of problems with Byte Subscription, deleted] I have had no problems with Byte's subscription department. I *do* have problems with their ongoing transformation from a good hobbyist magazine to a glossy version of ComputerWorld for IBM-PCs and clones (and an occasional Macintosh)... but that's another issue. -- -- `-_-' Peter (have you hugged your wolf today?) da Silva. -- U Mail to ...!uunet!sugar!peter, flames to /dev/null. -- "A foolish consistancy is the hobgoblin of little minds".
ray@micomvax.UUCP (Ray Dunn) (06/29/88)
In article <22c1ccc2@ralf> Ralf.Brown@B.GP.CS.CMU.EDU writes a long and sad
tale about Byte magazine.
I didn't see the original posting on this subject, and this may be covering
the same ground, however:
Frankly, I wouldn't recommend subscribing to Byte. Unless that is, you want
to be hassled with *much* junk mail, and an "endless" stream of requests to
resubscribe, which start [many] months before the end of your subscription -
a real nasty trick in my opinion.
The final straw for me was the final form letter which said:
"What happened?
Pollution felled your postman?
Sun-spots jammed our transmission?
You were drafted by the Foreign Legion?
There's an ominous feeling here in our offices that something dire has
happened!
Perhaps local factory emissions overcame the postman who was to deliver our
previous renewal notices[!!]. Maybe solar activity made the address
labels fall off our letters. Possibly you lost interest in computer
developments and went off to join the Foreign Legion. Anyway....."
Now maybe this *is* funny and I'm just a grouch, but it implies that the
reader feels happy about Byte and actually *wants* to renew, if not, it is
just impertinent and unprofessional, and that is how I saw it.
Disclaimer: The above is presumably (c) Byte, and is quoted without
permission. The views expressed are my own and in no way
necessarily reflect those of my employer.
--
Ray Dunn. | UUCP: ..!{philabs, mnetor}!micomvax!ray
Philips Electronics Ltd. | TEL : (514) 744-8200 Ext: 2347
600 Dr Frederik Philips Blvd | FAX : (514) 744-6455
St Laurent. Quebec. H4M 2S9 | TLX : 05-824090eric@hector.UUCP (Eric Lavitsky) (07/02/88)
In article <2211@sugar.UUCP> peter@sugar.UUCP writes: >> <Many other people write> >> [_LONG_ story of problems with Byte Subscription, deleted] > >I have had no problems with Byte's subscription department. I *do* have >problems with their ongoing transformation from a good hobbyist magazine >to a glossy version of ComputerWorld for IBM-PCs and clones (and an occasional >Macintosh)... but that's another issue. > >-- `-_-' Peter (have you hugged your wolf today?) da Silva. Yes - did you notice that the latest issue no longer says "The Small Systems Journal" on the cover or over the TOC ??? I'm not renewing my subscription... (sigh) Eric ARPA: eric@topaz.rutgers.edu or eric@ulysses.att.com UUCP: {wherever!}ulysses!eric or {wherever!}rutgers!topaz!eric SNAIL: 34 Maplehurst Ln, Piscataway, NJ 08854 "To err is human; To really f*ck up requires the root password."
R_Tim_Coslet@cup.portal.com (07/02/88)
In article <2211@sugar.UUCP>, peter@sugar.UUCP (Peter da Silva) writes: >In article <6862@cup.portal.com>, R_Tim_Coslet@cup.portal.com writes: >> From: Ralf.Brown@B.GP.CS.CMU.EDU , He writes: >> >From: Matthew Franckiewicz >> [_LONG_ story of problems with Byte Subscription, deleted] > >I have had no problems with Byte's subscription department. I *do* have >problems with their ongoing transformation from a good hobbyist magazine >to a glossy version of ComputerWorld for IBM-PCs and clones (and an occasional >Macintosh)... but that's another issue. I agree, I let my subscription to Dr. Dobb's Journal expire because they quit being a "good hobbyist magazine" and went "Professional" (whatever that means). I do see some unfortunate tendences in Byte to the same... I sure would like to see some more good practical "theory" and "algorithm" articles like Byte had in its early days (before 1980) (ex. the "My Dear Aunt Sally" article on algebraic expression processing in the February 1976 Issue, Byte #6). >-- >-- `-_-' Peter (have you hugged your wolf today?) da Silva. >-- U Mail to ...!uunet!sugar!peter, flames to /dev/null. >-- "A foolish consistancy is the hobgoblin of little minds". R. Tim Coslet Usenet: R_Tim_Coslet@cup.portal.com BIX: r.tim_coslet
lowey@damask.UUCP (Kevin Lowey) (07/03/88)
I also had problems with the BYTE magazine. I sent in a subscription and
paid via Mastercard. I recieved my first two issues, then nothing. I called
the Canadian service reps and they said they couldn't find me.
I then double checked the address they had for me. It was for Kevin LAWEY
(my last name is LOWEY) and the postal code was wrong. It ended up that they
were sending the magazine to the University of Saskatchewan in Ontario. (for
our American friends, Saskatchewan and Ontario are two seperate provinces
in Canada.
They sent me the issue I had missed immediately. However next month
the next issue didn't arrive. I called back again and got someone with the
IQ of a toad. I got her to double check my address, and she couldn't find
it. She then decided to solve the whole thing by canelling my
subscription, and starting a new subscription for me. I said fine, do whatever
you need to. I then asked if she could send me the issue I missed.
I swear, I could hear her asking the other members in the office "Does
anyone have a spare issue of the February BYTE?" She then came on the phone
and said, "Sorry, we don't have any copies here"!!!!
Of course, six weeks later I still didn't get the next month's magazine.
I called again ready to scream and shout and be real obnoxious (I work in the
User Support section of our department, so I know how to be obnoxious to
customer support people). Imagine my surprise when I got someone on the line
who actually knew something. She double checked everything, found my original
subscription (which had not had the address changed and had not been cancelled)
changed the address on it, AND arranged to get my missing issues sent to me.
I didn't even have to yell!!
Now everything is almost perfect. The only flaw is the address is room 5
instead of room 56 physics building, but that's no problem.
I guess one good thing happened from all this. I've started receiving a lot
of junk mail to Kevin LAWEY (remember the old address) At least I can tell
who BYTE is selling its mailing list to.
Oh, I also get Borland International's Turbo Technix magazine. It was
going to my old address (which was on the registration so that's logical),
so I sent in a change of address form. Since then I haven't received the
magazine at either my old OR my new address. I sent the subscription people
a letter (they don't have a PHONE NUMBER!!) and I still haven't heard from
them. AAAAAAAAARRRRRRRRRRRGGGGGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!
______________________________________________________________________________
| Kevin Lowey |The above is the personal opinion of Kevin |
| University of Saskatchewan |Lowey. It does not reflect the position of|
| Computing Services |the University of Saskatchewan in any way. |
| SaskTel: (306) 966-4826 | |
| Bitnet:LOWEY@SASK. (preferred) |I am in no way affiliated with any of the |
| UUCP: ihnp4!damask!lowey.uucp |above mentioned companies other than U of S|
|________________________________|___________________________________________|fdc@materna.uucp (Frank D. Cringle) (07/03/88)
I have recently experienced similar problems to those of Dirk Husemann and Matthew Franckiewicz. For a few years now Byte has sent out subscription renewal notices to us Europeans 6 months before the due date. I object to providing McGraw-Hill with a free loan, so I don't send the renewal until 2 months ahead of time. Last October I sent them my credit card number to renew a subscription expiring in December, and they promptly debited my account. The renewal demands kept on coming. I wrote to remind them that I had renewed. The January issue didn't arrive. I phoned their UK offices, wrote threating letters, etc. etc. Then to further complicate matters I moved from Scotland to W.Germany. The current status is that I get 2 copies per month, both routed via Edinburgh and the Isle of Man to Dortmund. Every month I fill out the change of address form on the mailer and send it to their redistribution centre in Holland, to no discernable effect. I particularly liked the letter of apology from their customer service department in the States that reached me some weeks ago. It was sent to Scotland with enough postage for 2nd class internal US mail. In summary: Byte/McGraw-Hill's subscription department is a mess, and must be costing them a fortune. -- Frank D. Cringle | Tel. +49 231 519 08 17 Dr. Materna GmbH | fdc@materna.uucp Vosskuhle 38 D-4600 Dortmund 1
cjl@ecsvax.uncecs.edu (Charles Lord) (07/06/88)
I last subscribed for 3 years, and the renewal notices started
NINE MONTHS before expiration. MacGraw-Hill managed to kill
the best two magazines that ever existed for EEs: Byte and Electronics!
both used to be informative (read MEAT not FAT) books and both are
glossy CRAP. I agree that DDJ is not as wonderful as it was in the
early days of Tiny Basic on the 8080, etc, but it is still a good
programmer's journal. Another good 'hacker' rag is Sol Libes'
Micro Systems Journal.
#include <std.disclamers>
#define truth beauty
#define beatuty truth
--
Charles Lord
Cary, NC cjl@ecsvax.UUCP Usenet
cjl@ecsvax.BITNET Bitnetpeter@ficc.UUCP (Peter da Silva) (07/08/88)
In article ... cjl@ecsvax.uncecs.edu (Charles Lord) writes: > Another good 'hacker' rag is Sol Libes' Micro Systems Journal. Only if you have an IBM-PC or a clone. -- -- `-_-' Peter (have you hugged your wolf today) da Silva. -- U Ferranti International Controls Corporation. -- Phone: 713-274-5180. CI$: 70216,1076. ICBM: 29 37 N / 95 36 W. -- UUCP: {uunet,academ!uhnix1,bellcore!tness1}!sugar!ficc!peter.
darin@nova.laic.uucp (Darin Johnson) (07/09/88)
> I agree that DDJ is not as wonderful as it was in the > early days of Tiny Basic on the 8080, etc, but it is still a good > programmer's journal. Another good 'hacker' rag is Sol Libes' > Micro Systems Journal. All of these magazines have slowly been turned to the dark-side. DDJ does have Apple articles occasionally, but they are all Messy Dos magazines. Amiga Transactor, now there's a magazine for REAL hackers! (Sigh) DDJ used to be interesting..., but then MS-DOS was a neat idea back in 82.... Darin Johnson (...pyramid.arpa!leadsv!laic!darin) (...ucbvax!sun!sunncal!leadsv!laic!darin) "All aboard the DOOMED express!"