dtynan@sultra.UUCP (Der Tynan) (10/15/88)
In article <26435@ucbvax.BERKELEY.EDU>, pchris@ucbarpa.Berkeley.EDU (Chris Perleberg) writes: > > It seems that the NeXT machine may have a few problems: > > 1) Outdated Processor Technology: NeXT just missed the wave of fast RISC > processors. The 5 MIPS 68030 is completely out performed by the currently > available RISC chips (Motorola, MIPS, Sparc) that run at approximately > 20 VAX (they claim) MIPS. In a year or two, ECL versions of some of these > RISC chips will be running at 40 to 50 MIPS. > This kind of argument drives me nuts! You could spend your life designing the "Latest and Greatest" thing into a system. I think you're *way* off the mark calling the 68030 outdated. Most of the world is using 8088's for pete sake! When IBM brought out their (yeugh!) PC, the processor technology was a tiny step up from a Z80. Today, most systems use 68000's. Jobs jumped the gun, and skipped the 68020 completely (as an aside, does the '30 have a built-in MMU?). In a year or two? ECL? That's a lot of good to somebody who has to deliver something on Oct 12! > 2) Non-Standard NuBus Implementation: A small company like NeXT can't hope to > create a competitive 3rd party board market for a non-standard bus. It has nothing to do with the size of the company. It's the size of the user market that determines this. We'll just have to wait and see. At $6500, it may still be too expensive to produce a big market. However, even if the company was nothing more than Jobs and a soldering iron, if the boxes sell, there'll be a competitive board market. > > 3) Non-Standard Software: What software company would develop software for > the special features of just one computer (NeXT Step)? How many copies of > this software can they possibly sell? Apple got away with it with the Mac, IBM pulled it off with the PC. What's the difference? The NeXT is running Mach. I've never seen one of these things, but I know most of my software will work on one, which is more than I could say for the PC when it first came out. Anyone remember the programs to convert 8080 CP/M code to run on an 8088?? > > 4) Slow Optical Drive: In the past, optical drives have been significantly > slower (seek times) than magnetic drives. What is the advantage of the > optical drive? Cost must be less than that of the larger 330Mbyte $2K > magnetic drive. But NeXT will be hurt once benchmarks come out for its > i/o performance (using the optical drive). The advantage of the optical drive, is it's *removable*. I agree, however, that a hard disk is also necessary. I mean, imagine being able to insert the GNU compiler source, and have it mounted in seconds. When you're done, move the object to the (hard-disk based) /bin directory, and take out the source disk. I think, however, that wishing the floppy-disk market away won't work. What happens to those of us who have mountains of old software we refer to now and again? If the market is education, it is important for 'joe user' to be able to send his stuff to his brother in Iowa, with a PC. > > 5) Software Not Ready: The 9 month delay (optimistically) until solid software > exists could kill NeXT, as Sun & Apple prepare competitive systems. Sun > will probably keep to open systems and set some new standards, while Apple > will probably stay proprietary. > The Mac took a year. So what? Right. Sun will have a competitive system AND "solid software" in less than nine months. Sure. The comparison I saw, showed Sun's answer as costing $13K. AND less performance. Anyway, see above. The basic tools provided will cover a lot of uses (more than MacPaint could :-) > 6) Sun (I have heard) has sold 15,000 workstations to universitys. How many > can NeXT expect to sell with its slow processor, non-standard bus/software, > slow drive, and late software? > *Slow* processor? Anyone would think from what you say, that the 80386 was a Cray in a leadless package? Don't forget; Mach is best known for being a "distributed" operating system. Also, the NeXT CPU is just a plug-in card. How about four more CPU's?? Mach can handle it. Can Sun OS?? > > Solutions to the above problems: What NeXT should do. > > 1) Develop a RISC based NeXT implementation as soon as possible. The advantage > of Unix (Mach) is its idea of source level portability, rather than binary > level compatibility. I take it you like RISC technology. I think you'd be a lot better off if you built your own. While you're at it, why don't you make it liquid nitrogen- cooled, with an ECL processor, running 100MHz. > > 2) Make "stub" boards that convert standard NuBus boards to the NeXT version of > NuBus. These "stubs" would be placed between the NeXT slots and the > standard NuBus boards. Longer Term Goal: Make the NeXT NuBus an > international standard, much as Apple made its version of NuBus a standard. > Possible Solution: Change the bus NOW to a standard, provide board > converters for computers with the current bus. > Ever hear of EBCDIC? Or the 3.75" micro-floppy? IBM has tried to "make a standard" more than once. Anyway, why not cripple it completely, and base it on an 8-bit S100 standard?? > > 3) Make NeXT proprietary software into standards, and beat Sun at its own game > before Sun beats NeXT. This may mean making NeXT Step an overlay on X > windows. The important thing is to develop a standard that can be (and is) > used by all computers. > Oh, I get it. There's a place in Delaware, where you send your source-listing, and a check for $50,000. By return mail, you get a "Certificate of Standard- ization" (No insult to the people of Delaware intended). You can *also* get a PhD in the same package. > 4) Give users the option of scrapping the optical drive and replacing it with > the 330 Mbyte winchester. Finally, a halfway decent comment. > > 5) Work like hell. Adopt standard software where ever possible. Distribute > work to 3rd parties. Standardize where ever possible to beat Sun at its > own game and to make the users happy. Allow Apple to be proprietary and > dig its own grave. > > Chris Perleberg > pchris@ucbarpa.berkeley.edu Sorry, Chris, but your article reeked of "It's good -- now, lets make it *even* better". There comes a phase in every project, when it's time to shoot the engineers and build the thing (stolen sans permission from someone). Where were you when IBM brought the industry *back* five years in '82? At last, someone offers a decent system, that actually *looks* like a system, instead of a toy, and everyone jumps on it, because it's not a VAX (or a Sun :-) The strange thing is, I don't even *like* Steve Jobs (nor do I have a cool $6500!). - Der -- Reply: dtynan@sultra.UUCP (Der Tynan @ Tynan Computers) {mips,pyramid}!sultra!dtynan Cast a cold eye on life, on death. Horseman, pass by... [WBY]