lwv@n8emr.UUCP (Larry W. Virden) (10/17/88)
I have read and heard many complaints about the Wall Sts comparison chart between NeXt and others. What I would like to see here on the net is an OBJECTIVE (ha!) attempt at doing this. Lets get a price on a TRUELY comperably priced system. By comperably, what I mean is that all features on NeXT must be present on the priced unit. AND the price must be an actual cost to a university student; not your guess at what it MIGHT cost if such and such a discount would be made available. Thus, I am counting on seeing input from folks at Ohio State, Standford, Univ. of Berk., Univ. of Michigan, etc. or at least folks who have access to THIS YEAR's price lists for students. The machine priced needs 8 meg of memory, 256 meg of disk (though I suppose it cannot be read/write optical since that isnt commercially available elsewhere at this time), thin wire ethernet, full unix WITH ALL THE VARIOUS packages mentioned as a part of the bottom line price (mathmatica, etc.). If the student cannot get that software via his school, then check out the price at a local dealer; if they offer a comperable discount, that is fine. If the specific hardware or software isnt available on the machine being priced, then give us a quote for something comperable. I would like to see prices on a Sun386i, Apple Mac II, and some kind of 386 based machine. Other machines are certainly welcome if comperable power wise to the 68030. Anyone else interested in seeing the TRUE comparison? -- Larry W. Virden 75046,606 (CIS) 674 Falls Place, Reynoldsburg, OH 43068 (614) 864-8817 osu-cis!n8emr!lwv (UUCP) osu-cis!n8emr!lwv@TUT.CIS.OHIO-STATE.EDU (INTERNET) We haven't inherited the world from our parents, but borrowed it from our children. Newsgroups: comp.sys.misc,alt.next Subject: Truer NeXT comparison wanted Summary: The REAL thing Expires: Sender: Reply-To: lwv@n8emr.UUCP (Larry W. Virden) Followup-To: Distribution: world Organization: Ham BBS, 614-457-4227 (1200/2400/19.2 telebit,8N1) Keywords: NeXT vs the world Well, I dont know if this is going to work; this system doesnt get alt.next, and I am TRYING to cross post there... Anyways, I have read and heard many complaints about the Wall Sts comparison chart between NeXt and others. What I would like to see here on the net is an OBJECTIVE (ha!) attempt at doing this. Lets get a price on a TRUELY comperably priced system. By comperably, what I mean is that all features on NeXT must be present on the priced unit. AND the price must be an actual cost to a university student; not your guess at what it MIGHT cost if such and such a discount would be made available. Thus, I am counting on seeing input from folks at Ohio State, Standford, Univ. of Berk., Univ. of Michigan, etc. or at least folks who have access to THIS YEAR's price lists for students. The machine priced needs 8 meg of memory, 256 meg of disk (though I suppose it cannot be read/write optical since that isnt commercially available elsewhere at this time), thin wire ethernet, full unix WITH ALL THE VARIOUS packages mentioned as a part of the bottom line price (mathmatica, etc.). If the student cannot get that software via his school, then check out the price at a local dealer; if they offer a comperable discount, that is fine. If the specific hardware or software isnt available on the machine being priced, then give us a quote for something comperable. I would like to see prices on a Sun386i, Apple Mac II, and some kind of 386 based machine. Other machines are certainly welcome if comperable power wise to the 68030. Anyone else interested in seeing the TRUE comparison? Newsgroups: comp.sys.misc Subject: Summary: Expires: Sender: Reply-To: lwv@n8emr.UUCP (Larry W. Virden) Followup-To: Distribution: Organization: Ham BBS, 614-457-4227 (1200/2400/19.2 telebit,8N1) Keywords: -- Larry W. Virden 75046,606 (CIS) 674 Falls Place, Reynoldsburg, OH 43068 (614) 864-8817 osu-cis!n8emr!lwv (UUCP) osu-cis!n8emr!lwv@TUT.CIS.OHIO-STATE.EDU (INTERNET) We haven't inherited the world from our parents, but borrowed it from our children.
ken@gatech.edu (Ken Seefried iii) (10/17/88)
I don't know about Suns and IBM PS/2s, but I DO know the "true" student cost
of a Mac II. Here at Tech we recently had a promotion by Apple to sell more
Mac IIs. A friend at Apple said it was the best price anywhere other than
for apple employees.
For a Mac II (NOT Mac IIx) with:
CPU (16MHz 68020/68881 6 NuBus Slots)
MMU upgrade
2MB RAM
640x480x8 (256 colours) card and monitor
A/UX on an 80MB HD
3.5" floppy drive
total: $5995
Just to get the price even with the NeXT machine, throw in the $650 1MB
upgrade to give a price of about $6550 for a 3MB Mac II.
Now lets compare this to the NeXT machine:
NeXT has 5MB more memory
NeXT can expand to 16MB on the motherboard (maybe 64, with 4M SIMMS)
Apple can expand to 8MB (or 32MB with 4M SIMMS, its been done, I believe)
NeXT has ~170MB more disk (removable disk, remember)
Apple has a floppy drive
NeXT has ~4x more screen area
Apple has 252 more colours
NeXT has ethernet
Apple has AppleTalk
NeXT has a 25MHz 68030 and 68882
Apple has a 16MHz 68020 and 68881 (the IIx only has a 16MHz 68030)
NeXT has a 56001 DSP, good for all sorts of fun, plus its a HELL of
a floating point chip if your not doing sound type things.
NeXT has oodles of I/O processors to reduce the load on the CPU.
Apple has 1 CPU doing almost everything.
NeXT has a real windowing interface (i wish it wasX, but DPS is pretty
interesting...I'll have to give it a chance)
Apple will have X Windows Real Soon Now
NeXT uses Mach, which is 4.3 BSD compatable
NeXT uses Mach, which supports multiple processors easily
NeXT uses Mach, which is designed for networks
NeXT uses Mach, which is designed for efficiency
Apple uses A/UX, which in 2 years or so will be a pretty good unix.
Right now though, its System V rel.2 with a few 4.2 features.
NeXT provides Objective-C, a very good object oriented programming
langauge.
Apple provides 'cpp'. I don't think there is Obj-C for A/UX.
Apple has the 'toolbox'...very good idea.
NeXT has a collection of objects for toolbox like work.
NeXT bundles Mathematica (very slick, deceptively useful)
Apple doesn't, and it'll cost you $900 to get it.
NeXT bundles SQL, dictionaries, thesauri, and Shakespeare (god knows
why, but I think its great), WP, quotations, etc.
Apple, as Joe Izusu sez, doesn't...All you get is A/UX and the standard
Unix utilities.
I REALLY shudder to think what an A/UX box would cost that met the NeXT specs!
That is, aside from the fact that things like Mach and Obj-C are not availible
for A/UX.
Lets talk printers:
NeXT Postscript laser printer: $2000
Apple PS laser printer (approx): $7000
Cheapest PS printer that I have seen: $3500
Lets talk disk:
whoops, forgot...Apple doesn't offer a 330 or 660MB drive...
I don't know what the Apple CD-ROM drive costs, but then, its not
eraseable or writable...
I almost bought a Mac II A/UX machine. I like the Mac II. I have the $6000+
to buy it. I'm buying a NeXT machine.
When you get down to brass tacks, NeXT is giving you an order of magnatude
more features for your dollar than Apple (or IBM or Sun, i bet). More
software (real applications, not just tools), better, faster, more versitile
hardware, and many times the future possibilities. It was
wrong of the Wall Street Journal to misrepresent the facts Re: NeXT cost
comparison, but under the microscope, nothing changes. The NeXT machine
has the bang-per-buck factor all to itself.
Jeez, I'm really trying not to look like the emmisary from the Church of the
Almighty Jobs...I used to be the biggest NeXT cynic around here...
ken seefried iii ...!{akgua, allegra, amd, harpo, hplabs,
ken@gatech.edu masscomp, rlgvax, sb1, uf-cgrl, unmvax,
ccastks@gitvm1.bitnet ut-ngp, ut-sally}!gatech!ken