bob@HEIDELBERG-EMH2.ARMY.MIL (Bob Sanders) (06/13/91)
Can you plase add the following USERID to your mailing list please.
sandersb@heidelberg-emh2.army.milk
correction: fat fingers
sandersb@heidelberg-emh2.army.mil
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Date: Tue, 11 Jun 91 11:17:39 CET
From: "Thomas F. Pockberger" <aets-kja-a-ao3@ANSBACH-EMH1.ARMY.MIL>
To: reschly@BRL.MIL, postmaster@BRL.MIL, mad@MERIT.EDU,
wancho@WSMR-SIMTEL20.ARMY.MIL, 4r8345@WESTPOINT-EMH2.ARMY.MIL,
nauen@WRAIR-EMH1.ARMY.MIL, drears@PICA.ARMY.MIL,
funkb@ZWEIBRUCKEN-EMH1.ARMY.MIL, german@CILPAC.ARMY.MIL,
eurmmdf@ZWEIBRUCKEN-EMH1.ARMY.MIL,
help-net%templevm.bitnet@PUCC.PRINCETON.EDU,
info-nets%think.com@BRL.MIL, stall@CILPAC.ARMY.MIL,
info-micro@WSMR-SIMTEL20.ARMY.MIL,
info-ibmpc@WSMR-SIMTEL20.ARMY.MIL, mmdf2@RELAY.CS.NET,
unixtie@LETTERKENN-EMH1.ARMY.MIL, big-lan@SUVM.ACS.SYR.EDU,
com-priv%nisc.psi.net@BRL.MIL, armyima@WESTPOINT-EMH2.ARMY.MIL
Subject: [Thomas F. Pockberger: Re: Re: Future off Network ?!?!?!?!?]
Organization: 1st AD, Office of the Staff Judge Advocate, APO NY 09326
Hi folks,
thanks for all your respond.
As you see I am still here, but don't know for how long.
Pocky
----- Forwarded message # 1:
Date: Tue, 11 Jun 91 10:53:42 CET
From: "Thomas F. Pockberger" <aets-kja-a-ao3@ansbach-emh1.army.mil>
To: jrolls@frg.bbn.com
cc: milnetmgr@ddn-conus.ddn.mil, 7thddnmgr@ritchie-emh1.army.mil,
cao%asbf-imp@huachuca-emh2.army.mil,
4r8345@westpoint-emh2.army.mil,
rdavenpo%sed@huachuca-emh2.army.mil, cmo@huachuca-emh2.army.mil,
howard%asbf-imp.huachuca-emh2.army.mil@huachuca-emh2.army.mil,
funkb@zweibrucken-emh1.army.mil, opnet@worms-emh3.army.mil,
armynets@ritchie-emh1.army.mil, asqn-op-oc-s@ritchie-emh1.army.mil,
netadmin@worms-emh1.army.mil, postmaster@frg.bbn.com,
eurmilmgr@eur.dca.mil
Subject: Re: Re: Future off Network ?!?!?!?!?
Organization: 1st AD, Office of the Staff Judge Advocate, APO NY 09326
First of all, thanks for the fast reply.
After the responses I received, I must apologize for not providing a
more detailed explanation in my first message.
Some people that I didn't include in the Cc: already knew details of
this problem.
I am using this "Network" for exactly what it was designed for -
communication. I use the "Network" more than standard mail for
various reasons, it's fast, reliable, and easy to use.
I use the term "Network" because you can't speak about one network
since many thousands of networks are interconnected, and called
Internet. Internet again is connected through gateways with other
existing networks.
That is where the problem begins.
I estimated that more than one thousand lists and groups exist on
these networks, with all kinds of topics.
My job is computer operation, LAN and WAN connectivity and
administration, trouble shooting, training, future development for
our organization.
All of you should know this means COMMUNICATION and INFORMATION.
This groups and list I subscribe to are fantastic and fast source.
If you know where to send to, your problem is solved. Some groups,
and they are major once, are coordinated from host in the .mil
domain. Second in line is the .edu domain.
When I started working on Ansbach-Emh1.Army.Mil in August last year
I discovered communication problems with some of these places and
some other hosts I was corresponding with. I remembered from
earlier experience that there are gateways which could help
in routing messages. I was successful and kept the SAs informed. At
around the time of Desert Shield the problems became worse. I talked
often to the former SA, Jan Plant, about my experience with the
host. She was able to fix most of the problems. Also there was, at
least up until today, no permanent solutions.
At the same time I requested accounts on the Nuernberg, Bamberg and
Grafenwoehr E-Mail hosts to insure the communication between us and
our deployed people was always up and running. We also have branch
offices at those locations under my responsibility (computer side
wise)
Whenever I received a message from "Outside" (outside the .mil
domain) to Ansbach which did stay as my "home" machine, I checked
the mailheader to see if the gateway was known to our system or new.
I noted the gateways so I didn't had to use just one primary, but
instead different once which the "Outside"-host did use to send to
me.
Once I had more than 20 IP# and the associated names collected, they
where added by our SA to the tables.
As I was the user with the most knowledge on the Ansbach host, and
used it more than anyone, I was always the first to notice problems.
If there was nothing in from groups and list, there was a problem. I
kept on reporting it. I have a message from the former SA stating
that she really appreciated my efforts, and if it hadn't been me the
system might be down (disconnected) for days without anybody
knowing.
By reading the groups/lists I discovered I was not alone with this
kind of problem. All kinds of messages explaining overloaded
routers, "butterfly" gateways, to many registered IP# etc.
Also I discovered earlier that the Nuernberg hosts had similar
problems. I did only keep this account after Desert Storm because
Nuernberg will be our next primary office.
Whenever I received a Test or problem message from outside I
forwarded it to the SA. The Nuernberg SA even sent me an error
report message address to the postmaster saying this was addressed
to the postmaster but should have been addressed to me! That's it,
no follow up or anything from them.
I never pushed the SAs on any problem, I reported them.
A few days after Jan Plant left the Ansbach CDOIM my supervisor
received a call from the CDOIM requesting that I stop RECEIVING
messages from "Outside" because they have a problem with the
e-mailhost and think it's my "Outside" messages.
That's where I started to scream!
The solution to a problem is not to stop the symptoms, but to cure
it. Ask the person how did most of the trouble report, but don't
disconnect him. Let him explain the problem, don't cut him off.
That was the point when I decided to send out all these messages. I
was serious by saying don't send anything to me. It would prove that
I am not the problem but just the problem-reporter.
Whenever I have a problem on one of my LANs or PCs I ask the user:
"And what did you do? What was the result? what did the computer do?
What was your last input? Are you sure?"
That helps me a lot. That same should have been done here.
BBN, I am not blaming you. Army .mil domain and communication people
I am not blaming you. I know to much about communication, and then
still not enough, to know that a lot of things can go wrong to one
major problem. And that's nobodys fault. I am not willing to be Mr.
Nobody for the Ansbach CDOIM people.
One more thing I'd like to say, I know that the call to my
supervisor was not initialized by the new SA but somebody
else at the local CDOIM, because the former one told her "If Pocky
calls, you have a problem. Believe him. He is one of the first one
who will notice it."
On the same day I broadcast my message I was going to check my
e-mailbox in Nuernberg. After a couple of "login incorrect" I called
them and was told following:
"Mr. Brown (the Ansbach DOIM) requested that your account on
Nuernberg be deactivated. There will also be an investigation
against you."
What's that?!?!?! That can only be a very bad joke. Nuernberg was
not mentioned anywhere!
I also heard from another source that they wanted to check all the
places I had sent messages to and wanted to read my messages!
Well fine with me. Is there a policy staying that I can't send to
.edu or .com hosts????
This shows that my claim was not unfounded! I don't blame anyone for
hardware problems, I balme them (some local Information Management
personal) for the treatment I received.
OK, the last bit was not really for BBN, but I thought one message
would clarify. Believe me, if one of my workstations on the LAN is
bogus it is disconnected right away. But I tell them what the
problem is and when they can expect a solution. That's what I missed
here.
Can we now please get back to normal work and start listening to the
users?
Don't worry, we all know that will always be problems, just try not
to think the "normal user" is to stupid to understand it. Explain
it, talk to them, especially if he is also a computer professional.
Please reread my first message!
I only tried to contact a wide audience to show a problem everyone
may run into: People responsible to run a host cutting you off
instead of listening to you, because you report problems. Would you
like to be treated like that?
Thanks to all of you to read to the end of this long messages. I
would like to hear your comments.
Pocky
PS: After 6 days messages to pica.army.mil, relay.cs.net and
wsmr-simtel20.army.mil couldn't be delivered by our mailer.
That happen today!
Is my complain realy unfounded?!?!?!?
----- Forwarded message # 1:
Received: from frg.bbn.com by ansbach-emh1.army.mil id aa23067;
10 Jun 91 7:47 MDT
Date: Mon, 10 Jun 91 14:09:09 +0200
From: Jay Rolls <jrolls@frg.bbn.com>
Subject: Re: Future off Network ?!?!?!?!?
In-Reply-To: Your message of Wed, 5 Jun 91 9:59:48 CET
To: eurmilmgr@eur.dca.mil
Cc: milnetmgr@ddn-conus.ddn.mil, 7thddnmgr@ritchie-emh1.army.mil,
cao%asbf-imp@huachuca-emh2.army.mil, 4r8345@westpoint-emh2.army.mil,
rdavenpo%sed@huachuca-emh2.army.mil, cmo@huachuca-emh2.army.mil,
howard%asbf-imp.huachuca-emh2.army.mil@huachuca-emh2.army.mil,
funkb@zweibrucken-emh1.army.mil, opnet@worms-emh3.army.mil,
armynets@ritchie-emh1.army.mil, asqn-op-oc-s@ritchie-emh1.army.mil,
netadmin@worms-emh1.army.mil, postmaster@frg.bbn.com,
"Thomas F. Pockberger" <aets-kja-a-ao3@ansbach-emh1.army.mil>
To all:
I responded to this message earlier today when I noticed it posted to the
"Big-LAN" digest on the Internet. Later I was forwarded the orginal message
and noticed the wide distribution. Hence I thought it prudent to let everyone
see the response I sent this morning (it was faxed).
After investigating, I found Mr. Pockberger's claims to be unfounded and I
have provided the background information below.
A priority 3 PR ticket had been opened on this problem by the EMMC and was
closed today after testing revealed that the problem has been fixed.
Questions or comments can be directed to myself or the the Eur-Mil-Mgr at
DCA-Europe.
Jay Rolls
BBN Communications
Stuttgart, FRG
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10 Jun 91
Dear Mr. Pockberger,
I am responding to your posting to the Big-LAN digest on the Internet that I
noticed on Friday. I was tempted to reply directly to the mail list, but
then decided it was best if I just responded directly to you.
I understand your frustration with the disrupted service. Computer
communications is something many of us have come to rely on heavily and when
the service is no longer available, it is difficult. However I do not feel
that the situation is as desperate as you portray it. In your case,
ansbach-emh1.army.mil, you are experiencing a purely technical problem. And
this can be overcome.
There are instances when we are forced to disconnect a host from the network.
A "misbehaving" host can cause network disruptions, and if extreme, must be
isolated so that other network users aren't disturbed. To make an analogy,
albeit a much more serious one, if there was a host that was carrying 110
voltage on its data lines into the network packet switch node, you can
understand why we would immediately want to disconnect that host from the
network. In the case of your host, our network operations center was getting
flooded with messages indicating severe problems with your host and
connection.
The ansbach-emh1.army.mil host was not disconnected from the network so that
"once he is gone there is no more complaints!" On the contrary, I checked
with your host administrator, Ms. Maria Bruckbauer (x8805), and she indicated
that she is most pleased with the assistance she has been obtaining from our
support staff. Part of the problem seems that the type of leased circuit
that was obtained from the Bundespost was of a lower grade in quality
(unconditioned). By working with the appropriate military technical control
stations, I am told that a work around has been attempted, and that tests
that will be run later today might indicate that the problem has been solved.
Below I have included an example of DDN network architecture. Your host is
connected to the Graffenwoehr node, and the problem is with the circuit
between your host and GRA.
If you would like to discuss your situation in more detail, I would be more
than happy to address your concerns. I can be reached at ETS 430-5140, by
email at <jrolls@frg.bbn.com>, or by fax at (0711) 687-1285. Future problems
can always be addressed to the network operations center at 430-5532, however
we normally like to work directly with the host administrators.
Sincerely,
Jay Rolls
European Program Manager
BBN Communications
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----BEGINNING OF FORWARDED MESSAGES----
Date: Wed, 5 Jun 91 9:59:48 CET
From: "Thomas F. Pockberger" <aets-kja-a-ao3@ansbach-emh1.army.mil>
To: milnetmgr@DDN-CONUS.DDN.MIL, 7thddnmgr@RITCHIE-EMH1.ARMY.MIL,
cao%asbf-imp@HUACHUCA-EMH2.ARMY.MIL, 4r8345@WESTPOINT-EMH2.ARMY.MIL,
rdavenpo%sed@HUACHUCA-EMH2.ARMY.MIL, cmo@HUACHUCA-EMH2.ARMY.MIL,
howard%asbf-imp.huachuca-emh2.army.mil@HUACHUCA-EMH2.ARMY.MIL,
funkb@ZWEIBRUCKEN-EMH1.ARMY.MIL, opnet@WORMS-EMH3.ARMY.MIL,
armynets@RITCHIE-EMH1.ARMY.MIL, asqn-op-oc-s@RITCHIE-EMH1.ARMY.MIL,
netadmin@WORMS-EMH1.ARMY.MIL, postmaster@FRG.BBN
Subject: Future off Network ?!?!?!?!?
Is this the future of Internet or Milnet, or just mine !?!?!?
You all properly know that this Network, as any other one, has
problems every now and then. We all know that individual host can
have problems to.
In August 1990 I started working on this host. I am no superuser,
not root or the SA. Just an ordinary user who happen to be
interested in computers and communications. From the beginning I
experienced problems and told the SA. She tried to help me as good
as she could. We solved some of the problems. Now she left end of
May.
Today my supervisor received a phonecall from the Information
Management people. The result was:
"Pocky, don't use e-mail for anything else then DoD purpose for the
next two weeks"
This means exactly "Do not contact any other location i.e. .com,
.gov, .net, .edu or whatsoever AND DON'T RECEIVE E-MAIL FROM THEM.
The local Information Management people want to test if mail I
RECEIVE from OUTSIDE is the problem !!!!!!!!
In a few words, the problem we have is interruption in the
communication line to the next host/gateway. Disconnections any
transmission of garbage characters on remote (modem dial in) users.
The communication problems have been so strong that the European
Milnet Monitoring Center disconnected us sometimes.
Will the future of a fantastic tool, called computer communication,
be like that??? Just cut a user off when he starts asking questions!
Cut him off, because once he is gone there is no more complains!
I am sure you all do understand why I send this message.
I will wait for the "Computer & Communication Police" to start searching
my printout and confiscating whatever the like.
Until end of June don't send anything to me but you can contact me
thrue bstring@mainz-emh2.army.mil. (Until they cut him off to ?!?!?!
;-{ )
Pocky
( A former happy Computernetwork user )
<*>
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___________________________________________________________________
|
"Pocky" | 1st AD, OSJA
Thomas F. Pockberger | AETS-KJA-A-AO
LAN/WAN Administrator | APO NY 09326
_______________________________|___________________________________
Internet-Personal pockbert@ansbach-emh1.army.mil
Internet-Office aets-kja-a-ao3@ansbach-emh1.army.mil
Proved once again - "Ignorance hates knowledge"
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