rjs@okstate.UUCP (03/24/87)
About a year ago, several gentlemen from National Semi. came to Oklahoma State University with a fairly impressive little machine. It was a then new card set called a "ICM 3216". It used a 32016 with the rest of the family (MMU, FPU, etc...). It was available to colleges and universities for about $1125 and came with 1 M memory 4 RS-232 ports 1 Centronix port a SCSI port (for hard disk and tape backup system) a "plastic wrapper" Sys 5 V 2 Unix distribution My question to the net is, has anyone other than me, heard of this little beastie? Even more interesting is what is its current status now that National has killed the 320XX series? ANYONE AT NATIONAL READING THIS????? PLEASE RESPOND!!!! Please post all info to this group (or the great net controllers may take this group away from us :-) Roland J. Stolfa Department of Computing and Information Sciences Oklahoma State University UUCP: {cbosgd, ea, ihnp4, isucs1, mcvax, pesnta, uokvax}!okstate!rjs Internet: rjs@a.cs.okstate.edu Disclaimer: You have lost your MIND if you think ANYBODY speaks for this place!
cramer@clem.UUCP (03/25/87)
In article <1775@a.cs.okstate.edu> rjs@a.cs.okstate.edu (Roland Stolfa) writes: >My question to the net is, has anyone other than me, heard of this little >beastie? There are lots of ads for the ICM board in EE Times and such. >Even more interesting is what is its current status now that >National has killed the 320XX series? As far as I know, the 320XX series is still alive and well. Do you mean "now that the '332 is out?" Sam Cramer uucp: {cbosgd,decwrl,hplabs,seismo,ucbvax}!sun!cramer arpanet: cramer@sun.com
aeusesef@csun.UUCP (03/25/87)
In article <1775@a.cs.okstate.edu>, rjs@a.cs.okstate.edu (Roland Stolfa) writes: > About a year ago, several gentlemen from National Semi. came to Oklahoma > State University with a fairly impressive little machine. It was a then > new card set called a "ICM 3216". It used a 32016 with the rest of the > family (MMU, FPU, etc...). It was available to colleges and universities > for about $1125 and came with > > 1 M memory > 4 RS-232 ports > 1 Centronix port > a SCSI port (for hard disk and tape backup system) > a "plastic wrapper" Sys 5 V 2 Unix distribution > > My question to the net is, has anyone other than me, heard of this little > beastie? Even more interesting is what is its current status now that > National has killed the 320XX series? Not only have we here at the world-famous CSUN heard of it, several of us have bought it. It is a nifty little machine, running (I believe) at 10 MHz, and with the FPU & CPU, it gets pretty good speed (our flyer we posted to get people to come to our meeting says, 'The power of a Vax for the price of a Mac.' Considering that you get a pretty full port of Unix SysVr2 (only thing I noticed missing was ?roff), including documentation, it is a very good buy (no sources in the standard price, unfortunately). If my great description has prompted anybody to look into it, also consider that, for another 3 or 4 hundred dollars, you can get a total of 4 megs of memory for it. Really useful. Also, no disk drives, power supplies, terminals, or cases are provided with the system from National, so you have to buy your own (we estimated that the rough price for an ICM3216 system, with at least 40M disk, case, power supply, and semi-decent terminal would run at about 3000, still better than an AT..). National is also advertising the ICM32332, but it the equivilent of the above system, with 1 meg of ram, costs something like 3k+. Hopefully the price will come down (hint, hint!). ----- Sean Eric Fagan ------\ Computer Center litvax \ Cal State University, Northridge rdlvax \ 18111 Nordhoff St. psivax --> !csun!aeusesef Northridge, CA 91330 hplabs / AGTLSEF@CALSTATE.BITNET ihnp4 / ------/ "I drank what?!" -- Socrates | My opinions *are* facts.
joe@auspyr.UUCP (03/25/87)
in article <1775@a.cs.okstate.edu>, rjs@a.cs.okstate.edu (Roland Stolfa) says: > > About a year ago, several gentlemen from National Semi. came to Oklahoma > State University with a fairly impressive little machine. It was a then > new card set called a "ICM 3216". It used a 32016 with the rest of the... > ...My question to the net is, has anyone other than me, heard of this little > beastie? ... We have an ICM 3216 here (but it's called an NS ICM Tower); it's the same as you described. Certainly is a neat little computer -- cept that I hate hitting the <BREAK> key on the console. B - Break, D - Dump, C - Contine C unix $ echo gotya Actually, the biggest thing i like about the series is that it seams to be completely binary compatable with alot of other 32016 systems (all?). -- "No matter Joe Angelo, Sr. Sys. Engineer @ Austec, Inc., San Jose, CA. where you go, ARPA: aussjo!joe@lll-tis-b.arpa PHONE: [408] 279-5533 there you UUCP: {sdencore,necntc,cbosgd,amdahl,ptsfa,dana}!aussjo!joe are ..." UUCP: {styx,imagen,dlb,jmr,sci,altnet}!auspyr!joe
joemu@nscpdc.UUCP (03/25/87)
In article <1775@a.cs.okstate.edu>, rjs@a.cs.okstate.edu (Roland Stolfa) writes: > About a year ago, several gentlemen from National Semi. came to Oklahoma > State University with a fairly impressive little machine. It was a then > new card set called a "ICM 3216". ... > My question to the net is, has anyone other than me, heard of this little > beastie? Even more interesting is what is its current status now that > National has killed the 320XX series? I have been working on the ICM series of board level products for over two years now. The ICM3216 is alive and well and shipping. It runs system V.2, it will run V.3, and will have networking capabilities very soon. It's definitely NOT dead. You need to be more careful about how you word your questions. Your statement that National has canceled the 320XX series has our phones ringing off the hooks. The ICM32032 product was canceled, NOT THE 320XX chip series. Now for the good news, the ICM32032 product was canceled because the 32332 chip became available within the timeframe to incorporate it into our second generation product. Instead of building boards based on both chips (and delaying the 332 based product), we decided to go directly to the higher performance of the 32332. The result is the ICM332-1 product that we have already announced and will be shipping as soon as our QA department has blessed it. I've tried not to sound too much like a commercial, if you have questions about our current or future plans, (please) contact one of our sales staff. Joe Mueller ...!nsc!nscpdc!joemu
rabbit@psivax.UUCP (03/26/87)
In article <590@csun.UUCP> aeusesef@csun.UUCP (Sean Eric Fagan) writes: >In article <1775@a.cs.okstate.edu>, rjs@a.cs.okstate.edu (Roland Stolfa) writes: >> ... It was available to colleges and universities >> for about $1125 and came with >> >> 1 M memory >> 4 RS-232 ports >> 1 Centronix port >> a SCSI port (for hard disk and tape backup system) >> a "plastic wrapper" Sys 5 V 2 Unix distribution Plus a Z-80 I/O processor that handles the DMA stuff on the SCSI bus. The ICM-3216 also comes with a 10mhz 32016 (32 bit processor, 16 bit data bus), FPU, TCU, ICU and MMU (floating point, timing control, interrupt control and memory manager units) chips. You can expand memory to 8 megabytes of RAM and virtual memory is supported. The entire computer is on a single cpu board measuring roughly 9" x 11". Memory is on separate, identically sized, boards. No "industry standard" bus is used, but rather, NSC's own "MiniBus" (a 16 bit bus). UoT recently announced their Berkeley 4.2 Unix port to the ICM-3216. The ICM-332-1 ("-1" I guess means their first ICM-332 product; more to follow) contains a 10mhz 32332 (NSC's higher performance full 32 bit processor; faster than the 32032), the same FPU, TCU, ICU and MMU as the ICM-3216, a 32016 I/O Processor (IOP) with it's own 512k of RAM, 4 serial ports, 1 parallel printer port, a high speed 32/16-bit DMA "Mover" to/from system memory, SCSI port, clock/calendar and Genix V.3 (NSC's version of System V Release 3). The ICM-332 comes with 2 meg of RAM expandable to 14 meg. The ICM-332 contains a 32 bit memory bus (MaxiBus) while the IOP has both (MiniBus for interfacing other I/O controllers; MaxiBus for talking to the 332). The product description I have says that Genix V.3 supports: demand-paged virtual memory, and offers job control, file and record locking and streams. C and Fortran 77 compilers and the 32000 assembler are also included. Note the ICM-332-1 does not use NSC's newer FPU, MMU etc chips. Future ICM-332's probably will though (requiring a totally new design). Educational univ prices: CPU board $1995, IOP (required) $1195, 6 meg RAM board $1355. -- Joe Kwan Systems Analyst Pacesetter Systems, Inc. uucp: {csun, scgvaxd, hoptoad, sdcrdcf, ihnp4}!psivax!rabbit
haddock@ti-csl.UUCP (03/26/87)
In article <1775@a.cs.okstate.edu> rjs@a.cs.okstate.edu (Roland Stolfa) writes: >About a year ago, several gentlemen from National Semi. came to Oklahoma >State University with a fairly impressive little machine. It was a then >new card set called a "ICM 3216". It used a 32016 with the rest of the >family (MMU, FPU, etc...). It was available to colleges and universities >for about $1125 and came with > >... > >My question to the net is, has anyone other than me, heard of this little >beastie? Even more interesting is what is its current status now that >National has killed the 320XX series? ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ --- Sounds like bull____ to me. > Several (6) of us in the Dallas/Fort Worth Unix Users Group purchased boards through the University/User-Group program. We put the critters in a modified AT-clone enclosure, with power supply, and 80-Meg disk, and cartridge tape drive for a mere US$3400. The disk and tape drive had their own embedded SCSI controllers. It works fairly well and mine is on the "net". If you wanna buy one I suggest spending an additional $370 to get a 4-Meg board (swap mem board's 64K chips with the 256K variety). One meg of memory ain't much if you're gonna run Unix. Mail me for more details and questions. The list on the board set was something around $3.4K (CPU, 4-Meg boards and *NO* SysV s/w) although I have no idea what it's going for at this time. Also, if you read mod.newprod(s) about a month of two ago you would have seen the announcement by the folks at the University of Toronto for their BSD 4.2 port. I just installed this critter over the weekend and appears to be running just fine. That SysV was driving me bananas plus there's bugs in the virtual memory that N/S is claiming to be AT&T bugs. Unfortunately the ICM-332 which is being advertised in the "industry" rags is not currently on the University/User-Group plan. > ANYONE AT NATIONAL READING THIS????? PLEASE RESPOND!!!! > >Please post all info to this group (or the great net controllers may take >this group away from us :-) > Yes, I read it when there's something in here. How 'bout you ICM or SYS32 folks out there? What's happening? Let's here from you!!!! The systems we put together we strickly for personal (ab)use. Texas Instruments Inc. had nothing to do with it or this posting whatsoever. -Rusty- ================================================================ Rusty Haddock +++ Texas Instruments, Inc. +++ Dallas, Texas Computer Science Center, CRD&E +++ CSNET: Haddock@TI-CSL USENET: {ut-sally!im4u,convex!smu,sun!texsun}!ti-csl!haddock -- ================================================================ Rusty Haddock +++ Texas Instruments, Inc. +++ Dallas, Texas Computer Science Center, CRD&E +++ CSNET: Haddock@TI-CSL USENET: {ut-sally!im4u,convex!smu,sun!texsun}!ti-csl!haddock
curry@nsc.UUCP (03/26/87)
The ICM is has other models with a recent release of the ICM-332-1. The telephone number on the ICM adds is 408-721-5000 but you can also call 408-721-8093 or -8094 for sales support (ICM sales that is). As to the cancelation of the 320xx, I assume that was to prod a reaction or comments. Not only are they not dead, cmos versions are being sampled andfull military type parts are in the works.
doon@unsvax.UUCP (03/26/87)
In article <1775@a.cs.okstate.edu> rjs@a.cs.okstate.edu (Roland Stolfa) writes: > >My question to the net is, has anyone other than me, heard of this little >beastie? Yes, I've heard of the ICM3216. Never played with one though. > Even more interesting is what is its current status now that >National has killed the 320XX series? > Hm, interesting. Where did you here this ? Harry Reed unsvax!doon
devoz@encore.UUCP (03/27/87)
This is an unfounded rumor. The 32032 and now 32332 cpus are alive and well. We have recently completed a dual CPU card using 32332 CPUs, and would be QUITE surprised if any 32*32s and for that matter 32016s were going out of production, as would many other vendors who use the 32032 in their products. Your rumor source is *way* off the mark. You are listening to the wrong people. devoz@encore Joe DeVincentis {linus,talcott,decvax,ihnp4,allegra,necis,compass}!encore!devoz
daver@nsc.UUCP (03/28/87)
In article <839@nscpdc.NSC.COM> joemu@nscpdc.NSC.COM (Joe Mueller) writes: >In article <1775@a.cs.okstate.edu>, rjs@a.cs.okstate.edu (Roland Stolfa) writes: >> About a year ago, several gentlemen from National Semi. came to Oklahoma >> State University with a fairly impressive little machine. It was a then >> new card set called a "ICM 3216". ... > >> My question to the net is, has anyone other than me, heard of this little >> beastie? Even more interesting is what is its current status now that >> National has killed the 320XX series? > >I have been working on the ICM series of board level products for over two >years now. The ICM3216 is alive and well and shipping. It runs system V.2, >it will run V.3, and will have networking capabilities very soon. It's >definitely NOT dead. > >You need to be more careful about how you word your questions. Your statement >that National has canceled the 320XX series has our phones ringing off the >hooks. The ICM32032 product was canceled, NOT THE 320XX chip series. > >Now for the good news, the ICM32032 product was canceled because the 32332 chip >became available within the timeframe to incorporate it into our second >generation product. Instead of building boards based on both chips (and delaying >the 332 based product), we decided to go directly to the higher performance of >the 32332. The result is the ICM332-1 product that we have already announced and >will be shipping as soon as our QA department has blessed it. > > > Joe Mueller > ...!nsc!nscpdc!joemu No, No, a thousand times NO! National Semiconductor has not cancelled Series 32000. Below is a list of the microprocessors, Development products, and software available from National. CPUs ----- NS32332 - 32 bit internal and external data bus, 32-bit addressing, 4 Gbyte address space. Burst mode and dynamic bus configuration. NS32332RT - NS32332 CPU configured for real time applications not requiring virtual memory support. NS32032 - 32-bit internal and external data bus, 24-bit addressing, 16 Mbyte address space. NS32016 - 16-bit external/32-bit internal data bus, 24-bit addressing, 16-Mbyte address space. NS32016RT - NS32016 CPU configured for real time applications NS32008 - 8-bit external/32-bit internal data bus, 24-bit addressing, 16 Mbyte address space. NS32C032 - CMOS version of NS32032. Pin compatible with NS32032 NS32C016 - CMOS version of NS32016. Pin compatible with NS32016. NS32C016RT - NS32C016 CPU configured for real time applications. NS32132 - Same internal/external architecture as NS32032 with the addition of dual processor bus arbitration logic on-chip. Please note that all of these processors use exactly the same instruction set. They are 100% upward and downward software compatible. Slave Processors ---------------- NS32381 - Second generation floating point unit compatible with the NS32332 (full 32-bit data bus). NS32081 - FPU compatible with all other Series 32000 CPUs. Note that the NS32332 and NS32332RT may also use this FPU. NS32C081 - CMOS version of NS32081. NS32382 - 2nd generation MMU for the NS32332. Full 32-bit architecture and supports 4 Gbyte address space. 4K page size demand-paged virtual memory (dpvm). NS32082 - MMU for NS32032, NS32C032, NS32016 and NS32C016. Supports dpvm with 512-byte pages size. Manages up to 32 Mbytes of physical memory. Peripherals -------------- NS32201 - Timing Control Unit (TCU) that provides the two-phase clock, system control logic and cycle extension for Series 32000 CPUs. NS32C201 - CMOS version of NS32201. NS32202 - Interrupt Control Unit (ICU) that minimizes the software and real-time overhead required to handle multi-level interrupts. A single ICU manages up to 16 interrupt sources. Multiple ICUs can be cascaded to handle up to 256 unterrupts. NS32203 - Direct Memory Access Controller that will transfer up to 5 Mbytes/second. Development Support -------------------- SYS32/20 - Complete development solution consisting of a 32-bit Series 32000-based PC add-in board, complete binary port of AT&T System V, and NSC's GNX language tools. Supports up to 8 users. Available with 2 or 4 Mbytes of RAM. ICM-332-1 - Complete NS32332 computer system on two PC boards. Uses a NS32016 I/O processor. Up to 14 Mbyte main memory. Optional GENIX V.3 (NSC's version of UNIX V.3) ICM-3216 - Original Integrated Computer Module with 32016 CPU, TCU, FPU, MMU, ICU. 1-8 Mbytes of RAM. System V.2 UNIX available. Series 32000 Software ---------------------- GENIX 4.1/4.2 OS - AT&T licensed Source of Berkeley UNIX OS. GENIX 4.1 includes C Compiler (Pascal optional). GENIX 4.2 also provides local area networking. Series 32000/System V.2 - Validated port of AT&T System V.2 UNIX. GENIX V.3 - NSC port of AT&T System V.3 UNIX OS. C and FORTRAN77 compilers included. GNX tools - Language tools for native and cross environments. Asssembler C compiler FORTRAN77 compiler PASCAL compiler Real-Time OS --------------- VRTX - A Series 32000 port of Hunter & Ready's VRTX real time os. There's more I could say, and more on the way, but my fingers are tiring. If you want more info, call your local National Sales Office or call (408)-721-5000. -- Thank you for your continued support -- Dave R.
mason@tmsoft.UUCP (03/28/87)
This machine is an ICM3216. They're great little boards. The university program is very good, as National applies some of their muscle to disk/tape drive distributors to get you good prices. There are lots of things coming out (or already available) for the ICM series: the UofToronto 4.2 port already discussed here; an 8 port serial board (with upgraded license for the extra users); a graphics board from National; the ICM-332-1 mentioned here which is supposed to be about 1.5 Mips (compared to .8 Mips or so for the ICM-3216). (As I'm talking about performance I should point out a bug in the Dhrystone data for ICM-3216 (out by a factor of 3 - unfortunately)). I have students who have bought the system. One is adding a floppy disk & controller directly to the Minibus to make a very cheap back-up medium. Another is building a very nice graphics system using the TI 34010 chip (connected to the CPU via the minibus which will run up to 6 Mbytes/sec in this configuration). NS32xxx is FAR from dead. Lots of people seem to be designing in 32xxx rather than 680xx chips into new products (appliances and multi-computers). ************************************************************************* * Stay tuned to National next week (or so) for some VERY exciting news. * ************************************************************************* -- ../Dave Mason, TM Software Associates (Compilers & System Consulting) ..!{utzoo seismo!mnetor utcsri utgpu lsuc}!tmsoft!mason
sechrest@orstcs.UUCP (04/09/87)
I have a national ICM 3216 system. The name of the system is jasmic. It runs rather well. It is an unbundled SysV so that not all the things you expect from a Unix are there (like nroff) I have notes and mail running fine and I have had very little problem porting code over. I think it has a wierd swapping algorithm since it takes some time to get back you you when it is going out to disc. All in all the machine is nice. I am waiting for the 4.2BSD to come from UofT for another machine on campus. John Sechrest sechrest%jasmic@orstcs.csnet
billd@crash.UUCP (04/10/87)
[] I know of at least two companies which are using NS32XXX chips in products today, these being Encore and Symmetrics, while neither company is a household word, they have a few systems out there. (quite good ones actually) Plus I recently heard a rumor that one shouldn't count on seeing MC68XXX in future Sun products and the NS32XXX line was being given strong consideration. -- _ /| \`o_O' ( ) Aachk! Phft! U (serious self-portrait?) Opinion? I thought you said onions. UUCP: {akqua,hplabs!hp-sdd,sdcsvax,nosc}crash!billd ARPA: crash!billd@nosc INET: billd@crash.CTS.COM
mash@mips.UUCP (04/13/87)
In article <992@crash.CTS.COM> billd@crash.CTS.COM (Bill D'Camp) writes: >I know of at least two companies which are using NS32XXX chips in products .... >recently heard a rumor that one shouldn't count on seeing MC68XXX in future >Sun products and the NS32XXX line was being given strong consideration. Anything is possible, but it is common knowledge that the reason that some future Sun products don't have 68Ks is that they have Sun's own RISC-based processor, usually called SunRise or Sun-4. -- -john mashey DISCLAIMER: <generic disclaimer, I speak for me only, etc> UUCP: {decvax,ucbvax,ihnp4}!decwrl!mips!mash, DDD: 408-720-1700, x253 USPS: MIPS Computer Systems, 930 E. Arques, Sunnyvale, CA 94086
doug@edge.UUCP (Doug Pardee) (04/14/87)
> Alive maybe, but well? Compare and contrast the market share of MC68020 to > NS32xxx chip set. Yeah, the 68020 is on the skids, too. Compare and contrast the market share of the iAPX86 against the 680xx chip set. :-) Seriously, though. Just because the 320xx isn't appearing in the computers that *you* are interested in doesn't mean that they aren't being used. I would suggest that contrary to NSC's publicity, the 320xx series is not a competitor against the 68020, and I don't think we'll see it popping up in high-performance workstations. The 320xx's strength is its extremely low cost, especially for the full chip set with FPU and MMU. For this reason, it's been designed into a number of add-in boards for PCs. I'm pretty sure that in this market alone, they've shipped more 320xx's than Mot has shipped '020s in all markets combined. [Disclaimer: I worked with 320xx's when I worked for Terak. Here, I work on super-fast 68010-compatible machines (1 clock per instruction). All things considered, I'd rather you forget the 320xx and 68020 and buy one of ours :-) ]. -- Doug Pardee -- Edge Computer Corp. -- Scottsdale, Arizona
chuq@plaid.UUCP (04/14/87)
>I know of at least two companies which are using NS32XXX chips in products >today, these being Encore and Symmetrics, while neither company is a household >word, they have a few systems out there. I almost hate to step into this argument, since people seem to be having quite enough fun without me, but I'd suggest people look at the number of companies that USED to use the NS32xxx chips as well as those that still do. The ratio is interesting. chuq Chuq Von Rospach chuq@sun.COM [I don't read flames] There is no statute of limitations on stupidity
roger@nsc.nsc.com (Roger Thompson) (04/14/87)
In article <16647@sun.uucp>, chuq%plaid@Sun.COM (Chuq Von Rospach) writes: > > I almost hate to step into this argument, since people seem to be having > quite enough fun without me, but I'd suggest people look at the number of > companies that USED to use the NS32xxx chips as well as those that still do. > The ratio is interesting. > When in the course of human events ---- oh, wrong subject. What ratio are you interested in ---- I have several. Our total design win base is increasing, our revenue (thats the good stuff) is doing real well, our backlog is solid. Yes, there have been lost accounts -- National is not immune to that. Intel and moto and even Sun have had similar situations. That is life in the big world. Our compounded annual growth rate is at 33%, not bad when you consider the microprocessor market average is around 25%. ------ roger
schultz@mmm.UUCP (John C Schultz) (05/06/88)
I am looking for suggestions, even if they cost a {\it little} money. The problem: How to upgrade my ICM without spending big bucks. The Background: I was one of the (un)fortunates that purchased an ICM3216 thinking it was good design, cheap enough to use at home and had a nice level of performance (about a VAX). I have mentioned that my disk performance leaves something to be desired previously and thank everyone for their responses and suggestions. On the upgrade problem, I have talked to National, and for $600 they will provide a V.3 upgrade (from my current V2.2 Rev D, Aug 1986) for the ICM. The catch is that my hardware is sooo old (how old is it - Rev A, SN J460026045) that I will need a completely new board (Rev J) to the tune of cool $1000. The total of $1600 is more than I paid for it originally. My question: I recall that a BSD port is available for the ICM but do not remember from whom. Could someone please direct me? I would also appreciate if anyone knows if the BSD port will run on my board and/or if I can upgrade the board to a later Rev via PALs and my friendly soldering iron. FYI, I was informed that the University ICM program is dead, which sorta explains the lack of any information via that channel. You know, useful things like upgrade notices, rev level changes, support, canceling the program, etc. :-) john c. schultz {umn-cs, ems, tundra}!mmm!schultz ------or------ schultz@mmm.UUCP The opinions expressed herein are, as always, my own and not 3M's. Surface mail: 3M Center, AT&T:(612) 733-4047 Bldg. 518-1-1 St. Paul, MN 55144-1000