[comp.sys.nsc.32k] BSD port for 32k

dlr@daver.UUCP (Dave Rand) (11/22/88)

In article <2667@sultra.UUCP> dtynan@sultra.UUCP (Der Tynan) writes:
>I beg to differ.  Granted, I've never used Release 3, but I have definitely
>used S5.2.1, and found it nasty (I'm fighting to avoid using stronger words).
>BSD also has sockets.  Not to mention 'csh', and many more features.  However,
>you're certainly welcome to your opinion.  But, don't expect AT&T to continue
>to support release 3, when 4.0 is in the wings, and don't expect 4.0 to run
>on your AT box.

Ok. Everyone WANTS BSD. I'm game to do the port. How do I get it? I know
how to get a Binary license for Sys V.3 (and the binary is cheap). How can
I get one for BSD? Source is nice, but usually too expensive.

Any ideas?

-- 
Dave Rand
{pyramid|hoptoad|sun|vsi1}!daver!dlr

ken@gatech.edu (Ken Seefried iii) (11/22/88)

In article <8084@daver.UUCP> dlr@daver.UUCP (Dave Rand) writes:
>Ok. Everyone WANTS BSD. I'm game to do the port. How do I get it? I know
>how to get a Binary license for Sys V.3 (and the binary is cheap). How can
>I get one for BSD? Source is nice, but usually too expensive.
>
>Any ideas?
>
>-- 
>Dave Rand
>{pyramid|hoptoad|sun|vsi1}!daver!dlr

Sorry...could let this one go...he DID ask for ideas....

So your going to do a BSD port to the 32k?  And from the binary license, the
source being to expensive...

That shouldn't take you more than a leasurely evenings hacking.  After you're
done with that, why don't you port VM/370, so we can do some transaction
processing.  And then, of course, curing cancer can't possibly wait till
morning, so run take a wack at that.  Then theres that pesky NY <-> London
undersea tunnel people could really use....

(Anyone who needs smiley faces on the above should be hauled out and SHOT...)

Seriously, the BSD kernal is about 800 printed pages, is a 250,000++K binary,
and requires multiple man years to port.  Perhaps Sequent could discuss the
joy and rapture of that port.

I am really encouraged by the enthusiasm that people have shown for this
public domain 32k project, but lets take a sanity check and be realistic about
what we can do so that later, when we find out what cannot be done, people
aren't disappointed and programmers aren't shit apon for not getting things
done.

Can you imagine if I mailed all 3.5 inches of the BSD kernal to Dave and
said "go to it, big guy..."?  Nawwww....I'm not THAT cruel....

And Dave, I don't mean to pick on you, and boy, I really wish you could by
your lonesome whip up a BSD port, but that nasty reality slipped in.  I'm
sorry that you happened to be close by when it struck....

	ken seefried iii	...!{akgua, allegra, amd, harpo, hplabs, 
	ken@gatech.edu		masscomp, rlgvax, sb1, uf-cgrl, unmvax,
	ccastks@gitvm1.bitnet	ut-ngp, ut-sally}!gatech!ken

        "Children is more trouble than human beings!" -- Popeye the Sailor

rusty@hocpa.UUCP (M.W.HADDOCK) (11/22/88)

In article <8084@daver.UUCP> dlr@daver.UUCP (Dave Rand) writes:
   >In article <2667@sultra.UUCP> dtynan@sultra.UUCP (Der Tynan) writes:
   >>I beg to differ.  Granted, I've never used Release 3, but I have definitely
   >>used S5.2.1, and found it nasty (I'm fighting to avoid using stronger words).

Other nasty but painful truths about Missed'em Five.

   >Ok. Everyone WANTS BSD. I'm game to do the port. How do I get it? I know
   >how to get a Binary license for Sys V.3 (and the binary is cheap). How can
   >I get one for BSD? Source is nice, but usually too expensive.
   >
   >Any ideas?

Dave, I don't know how you're gonna do a port with just a binary
license.  Yes, it's cheap, yes, it has all the device drivers and
such (for at least National's ICM version) but it's a tad bit more
than just that.  Getting a source license is also more than just
shelling out the big bucks for it.  Lawyers tend to get involved
as well.  Yuck!  Plus, it's no easy job to do.

Any hoot, with UToronto, all you need to get a BSD binary license is
to have a Missed'em Five, fill out and sign a license agreement, and
shell out a minimum of US$265(?) for a two-user license.   If UToronto
is still selling it you should get another tape cartidge and a couple
of ROMs plus instructions.

If you or anyone else is interested I have the prices and the
people to contact at UToronto.  The port has been pretty solid and
I've been running it on my own ICM, named fe2o3 and on the net,
for not quite two years.  No problems!  My only regret is that the
'016 is just too slow compared to this nicely matched set of VAX
8700's sitting here at work.  :-)

			-Rusty-

P.S.  I WAS running the INFO-ICM mailing list but it's kinda been
	shutdown due to the lack of interest on the part of the 
	readers.  I haven't seen any mail since June 21, 1988. If
	interest re-sparks I'll be more than glad to crank up the
	list again.
-- 
Rusty Haddock		{uunet!likewise,att,arpa}!hocpa!rusty
AT&T Consumer Products Laboratories - Human Factors Laboratory
Holmdel, New Joyzey 07733   (201) 834-1023  rusty@hocpa.att.com
		I LOVE CATS -- DEAD ONES!

dlr@daver.UUCP (Dave Rand) (11/22/88)

In article <17659@gatech.edu> ken@gatech.UUCP (Ken Seefried iii) writes:
>In article <8084@daver.UUCP> dlr@daver.UUCP (Dave Rand) writes:
>>Ok. Everyone WANTS BSD. I'm game to do the port. How do I get it? I know
>>how to get a Binary license for Sys V.3 (and the binary is cheap). How can
               ^^^^^^
>>I get one for BSD? Source is nice, but usually too expensive.
>>
>
>So your going to do a BSD port to the 32k?  And from the binary license, the
>source being to expensive...
>
> [stuff deleted]

Yes, I did say BINARY. Not source. There are several companies offering
NS32K System V Binaries (ZAIAZ being one of them). There are at least
two ports of BSD to the NS32K (one by the U of Toronto, I think, and
the other by Symmetric (sp?)).

Obviously, doing an entire port takes more than one person working
weekends for a month :-)

But I have worked on Binary ports more than once now, and the work is
usually quite easy, once the basic device drivers are done. And I have
done the device drivers. More than once.

So - back to the question. I know how to get a NS32K Binary for System
V. How do I get a NS32K Binary for BSD?

-- 
Dave Rand
{pyramid|hoptoad|sun|vsi1}!daver!dlr

eclam@maytag.waterloo.edu (Edmund C. Lam) (11/29/88)

UCB is in the process of "giving" away all its non AT&T code.  For example,
4.3Tahoe source contain disclaimers for source which has been "de-classified"
and public.

Asumptions:

The hardest part of porting BSD will be the initial boot strapping and
loading of a mini root.  There have been lots of papers published on how to
do it.  

The best way I know to do this is to ensure that the '532 have an Ethernet
card and use a ROM based bootp to get instances of the test kernel.   This
assumes that you do this at a place which an Ethernet and a friendly host
BSD system with a NS32 cross compiler.

The '532 kernel should initial use NFS or RFS.  Once up, we can build
our own file system on the local disk.  Then we take the box home!

The NFS code is not free, but most of the kernel source is.
--
        -Edmund C. Lam    (University of Waterloo)
	<eclam@maytag.waterloo.edu>

mvadh@cbnews.ATT.COM (andrew.d.hay) (12/13/88)

In article <ECLAM.88Nov29012330@maytag.waterloo.edu> eclam@maytag.waterloo.edu (Edmund C. Lam) writes:
>UCB is in the process of "giving" away all its non AT&T code.  For example,
>4.3Tahoe source contain disclaimers for source which has been "de-classified"
>and public.

how does one go about obtaining the 4.3BSD source?

inquiring minds want to know...

-- 
Andrew Hay		+------------------------------------------------------+
Holistic Specialist	| I will design a computer for you, so powerful that   |
AT&T-BL Ward Hill MA	| organic life will form part of its operational matrix|
mvuxq.att.com!adh	+------------------------------------------------------+

vixie@decwrl.dec.com (Paul A Vixie) (12/14/88)

[mvadh@cbnews.ATT.COM (andrew.d.hay)]
# how does one go about obtaining the 4.3BSD source?
# inquiring minds want to know...

Since you work for AT&T, you won't have a problem.  You probably have a
corporate System- V source-code license :-) :-) :-).

You also probably have a Berkeley license but if you don't it's no big deal.
Since you don't have to give AT&T $60,000, giving UCB their small license fee
is trivial.  Send mail to <bostic@okeeffe.berkeley.edu>, he can give you a
pointer toward the administrative types who accept checks and make tapes and
so on.

For anyone outside of AT&T, there is a very good reason not to run BSD on the
proposed 32K supermicro I've been watching you all try to design by committee:
you have to give AT&T some medium single-digit number of tens of thousands of
dollars before Berkeley can let you have their stuff.  This is because Berkeley
started out with Research V32 way back when; though Berkeley is sifting through
their code looking for non-AT&T-derived stuff, you pretty much need the whole
thing (that is, including the AT&T-derived stuff) to have a usable kernel.

(Personal opinions only, I don't speak for my employer.)
--
Paul Vixie
Work:    vixie@decwrl.dec.com    decwrl!vixie    +1 415 853 6600
Play:    paul@vixie.sf.ca.us     vixie!paul      +1 415 864 7013