ken@gatech.edu (Ken Seefried III) (04/12/89)
Looks like I have inherited an ICM board (if someone doesn't find a
last minute use for it). It looks like it has the CPU, Memory,
Ethernet and 'power distribution' board.
I yanked out my National Semi books, to see what I had, and I have a
couple of questions:
What is the status of the ICM project at National (including
the later ICM-332? (I am under the impression it is dead).
Is any ICM stuff still availible from National, like software,
memory boards, the ICM-SIO-M-8 eight serial I/O board, etc.?
Is it availible elsewhere? Anyone throwing one away...;')?
My 1988 "Semiconductor Master Selection Guide" from National
(which, by the way, still lists the ICM-3216), states that:
"Functions such as Local Area Network controllers, Graphics
controllers, X.25 interface and others will be availible in
the future...". Well, seems I have the Local Area Network
controller (Ethernet). Are any others availible? A Graphics
board would be WONDERFUL, and an X.25 controller would be a
big bonus. Maybe someone even has an engineering prototype
that they would let go (I'll even write the drivers if I have
to...;')
What is the status of the 'MiniBus' interface and the
ICM-MBIC-C MiniBus interface chip? Are there Application
notes dealing with MiniBus interfacing? (I'll BUILD a graphics
board if I have to...;')
Does anyone have experience with an ICM-3216 with the full
8MB of RAM?
Could someone estimate the number of ICM boards out there?
Why didn't it catch on?
Other, related questions:
I understand that at one time there was (be still my beating
heart) a 4.2 BSD port to the ICM-3216 done by a Canadian
university (U of Toronto???). What is the word on this??
Is there plans for 4.3? Is there support for the ICM Ethernet
board (TCP/IP, etc.) in this Unix?
Anyone running the GNU tools on an ICM board? (life wouldn't
be worth living without GNU Emacs) I guess this would be
either under System V.2, System V.3 (does this run? I know
National has it), Genix, or U of Toronto BSD 4.2.
Is the ICM mailing list officially dead? I haven't heard from
it in something like 6 months. Course, with all the talk
about deleting slow newsgroups, we should probably funnel as
much traffic through here as we can ("But guys! This is
QUALITY, not QUANTITY!")
As always, any help would be appreciated. I'm awfully exited to be
getting a Unix box with a REAL CPU in it for a change...none of this
68020 stuff...;') ;') ;') ;')
Thanks...
...ken seefried iii
ken@gatech.edurusty@hocpa.UUCP (M.W.HADDOCK) (04/13/89)
[Correct me if my info' is wrong or out dated. No flames! -Rusty-]
Ken,
Hopefully you'll have my reply to your mail by now.
In there should be some more detailed info about the
obtainig the various versions of Unix for the ICM boards.
In article <18414@gatech.edu> ken@gatech.edu (Ken Seefried III) writes:
>Other, related questions:
> I understand that at one time there was (be still my beating
> heart) a 4.2 BSD port to the ICM-3216 done by a Canadian
> university (U of Toronto???). What is the word on this??
As far as I know you can still get it from them.
> Is there plans for 4.3? Is there support for the ICM Ethernet
> board (TCP/IP, etc.) in this Unix?
When I have contacted them, the folks at UToronto have not had any plans to
do a 4.3 port and UToronto's Ethernet support was for their own hardware -
not National's.
> Anyone running the GNU tools on an ICM board? (life wouldn't
> be worth living without GNU Emacs) I guess this would be
> either under System V.2, System V.3 (does this run? I know
> National has it), Genix, or U of Toronto BSD 4.2.
I know that GnuEmacs (v18.42?, I haven't tried the latest 18.5x yet)
will run and reasonably well for an 32016. There were some hacks
that forced the SysV version to `unexec'. These were posted in an
issue of INFO-ICM.
>
> Is the ICM mailing list officially dead? I haven't heard from
> it in something like 6 months. Course, with all the talk
> about deleting slow newsgroups, we should probably funnel as
> much traffic through here as we can ("But guys! This is
> QUALITY, not QUANTITY!")
The last issue of INFO-ICM went out to the mailees on June 23, 1988. Since
then, while I have been in touch with some "members" of the list,
`fe2o3!info-icm' has not received a single piece of mail. Now maybe it was
because AT&T started their non-trafficing of 3rd party mail (there are ways
around it!) or people just didn't give a hoot. I think it was the latter
given the amount of chatter on this newsgroup about the ICM products.
(SOAP-BOX-MODE T)
Still the quality of the discussions and info' in the mailing list were
second to none, IMHO. I enjoyed doing it especially when we had several
folks from NSC's Product Development Center(?) joining in and we were
getting needed answers to our questions.
As for the hardware, I think it's been some of the greatest I've ever had.
'fe2o3' has been up and running for just over 2 years. It has surviving a
move from Texas to New Joyzey and many a thunderstorm with hardly a
breather. Uptimes were usually measured in months! until I started to
tinker with device drivers. In that time I've had >> NO << downtime due to
hardware failure. Any software crash was cured by the reboot. :-}
National should be commended!!!
(SOAP-BOX-MODE NIL)
>As always, any help would be appreciated. I'm awfully exited to be
>getting a Unix box with a REAL CPU in it for a change...none of this
>68020 stuff...;') ;') ;') ;')
Now, now. The '020 ain't that bad... unless you're writing a compiler
and/or an assembler. :-) Still, it's far better than that Intel cruft
I had to program. BLEAAH! Seriously, I'm sure my blood pressure took
a dive once I quit writing 80x86 code.
What I'd really love to have would be a '532 running 4.3BSD or Mach!
BTW, what '532 products are available? I'd really like to know.
If there's any interest, I still have Volume's I and II of INFO-ICM.
Enough from me for now, I really should get back to work.
Cheers,
-Rusty-
----
Rusty Haddock {uunet!likewise,att,arpa}!hocpa!rusty
AT&T Consumer Products Laboratories - Human Factors Laboratory
Holmdel, New Joyzey 07733 (201) 834-1023 rusty@hocpa.att.com
** Genius may have its limitations but stupidity is not thus handicapped.
--
Rusty Haddock {uunet!likewise,att,arpa}!hocpa!rusty
AT&T Consumer Products Laboratories - Human Factors Laboratory
Holmdel, New Joyzey 07733 (201) 834-1023 rusty@hocpa.att.com
** Genius may have its limitations but stupidity is not thus handicapped.schultz@mmm.UUCP (John C Schultz) (04/15/89)
In article <18414@gatech.edu> ken@gatech.edu (Ken Seefried III) writes: > What is the status of the ICM project at National (including > the later ICM-332? (I am under the impression it is dead). The ICM project is pretty dead last I heard. National kind of left it to hang out and dry (Why I am not sure). In my case it is a pretty good reason not to consider using National stuff at work. > > Is any ICM stuff still availible from National, like software, > memory boards, the ICM-SIO-M-8 eight serial I/O board, etc.? I am trying to donate, to a charitable organization my ICM w 100 MB disk. Are you a charitable organization and can you prove it to the IRS? > Is it availible elsewhere? Anyone throwing one away...;')? I didn't know they made a Ethernet controller - any software? > > What is the status of the 'MiniBus' interface and the > ICM-MBIC-C MiniBus interface chip? Are there Application > notes dealing with MiniBus interfacing? (I'll BUILD a graphics > board if I have to...;') > At one time I heard mention of a gate array which was supposed to make the Minibus wonderful. Never actually heard of silicon though. > >Other, related questions: > > I understand that at one time there was (be still my beating > heart) a 4.2 BSD port to the ICM-3216 done by a Canadian > university (U of Toronto???). What is the word on this?? > Is there plans for 4.3? Is there support for the ICM Ethernet > board (TCP/IP, etc.) in this Unix? UofT will still supply a BSD 4.2 port as I found out a couple months ago after about 2 years of trying. The person who wrote it is no longer at UofT but UofT is still willing to sell it for about $400. Since it is a pretty stable product (as several people on the net have said) buying it under these conditions would probably be OK (If you want to sink more money into an ICM?) I can't find the letter at the moment but I can post the phone and/or mailing address when I clean my desk off. :-) > > Anyone running the GNU tools on an ICM board? (life wouldn't > be worth living without GNU Emacs) I guess this would be > either under System V.2, System V.3 (does this run? I know > National has it), Genix, or U of Toronto BSD 4.2. I have ported GNU EMACS about 18.49 to the (very) raw SYS V.2.2 distribution from National. I have rev B of the software which needed the following hacks. in m-ns16000.h: #define SHORT_CAST_UG #define NO_REMAP and the most serious problem in malloc.c, get_lim_data(), was that ulimit(3,0) is brain dead (on my version) and I replaced it by while (srk(128 * 1024) > 0) lim_data = sbrk(0); My only comment was that SDB was at least up to debugging GNU EMACS and introduced me to real symbolic debuggers. > > ...ken seefried iii > ken@gatech.edu Good luck and let me know if you are a non-profit organization. (P.S. My opinion of the ICM is that the CPU is fine (about a VAX 780 MIP) but the disk controller stinks. Also I have gotten used to SUN 3 performance and SUNOS. You can purchase later releases of the software from National (rev H, I think), and while they recommend hardware modifications, they probably aren't needed.) -- john c. schultz schultz@3M.Com ..!uiucuxc!mmm!schultz (612) 733-4047 3M Center, Bldg 518-1-1, St. Paul, MN 55144-1000 The opinions expressed herein are, as always, my own and not 3M's.
baer1@nsc.nsc.com (Jeffrey Baer) (04/16/89)
In article <1253@mmm.UUCP> schultz@mmm.UUCP (John C Schultz) writes: >In article <18414@gatech.edu> ken@gatech.edu (Ken Seefried III) writes: >> What is the status of the ICM project at National (including >> the later ICM-332? (I am under the impression it is dead). > > The ICM project is pretty dead last I heard. National kind of left >it to hang out and dry (Why I am not sure). In my case it is a pretty >good reason not to consider using National stuff at work. Ouch! This is pretty strong stuff. Although I am not completely familiar with the rationale behind the demise of ICM, I do have some insight. The reasoning was partly technical: the ICM-3216 was a pretty good product in general, but it has become somewhat outmoded compared to other things on the market, both 32000-based and non-32000 based. Right now, the ICM is considerably less than the best low-cost UNIX engine available (or not available, as the case may be). There were also internal National reasons (systems are a different market from what National is generally comfortable with), as well as the euphemistic "business considerations". Again, I do not have "up to the minute" ICM news (ICM group has been in a completely different division from me for quite a while, which really means something in a company of National's size), but it is clear, as was pointed out, that the product doesn't have a rosy future. I know other people with ICMs who are also frustrated, and I sympathize (some of them yell their frustrations at me). However, it is unfair to tar National with this brush because a product became obsolete. Happens all the time. I had a heck of a time getting parts for my last rather old car, but I didn't say "#&(**&(65%^$%, I'm never buying a Ford again" (well, at least for that reason :-) ). I don't necessarily agree with the way everything is done around here (just ask my boss), but NO company keeps a current line of every product ever made by them in history. This is even more pervasive in this industry, unfortunately. National, while far from innocent in this regard, is at least in good company. I don't blame you for being mad or worse, but I'd reconsider indicting an entire company and product portfolio based on one botch. > john c. schultz schultz@3M.Com ..!uiucuxc!mmm!schultz (612) 733-4047 > 3M Center, Bldg 518-1-1, St. Paul, MN 55144-1000 My opinions are my opinions, and while they are awfully good, they are not National's. Jeff Baer Series 32000 Applications Engineering baer1@NSC.NSC.COM -- "Nothing rings as true as silence." Jeff Baer National Semiconductor baer1@NSC.NSC.COM
buck@siswat.UUCP (A. Lester Buck) (04/16/89)
In article <18414@gatech.edu>, ken@gatech.edu (Ken Seefried III) writes: > What is the status of the ICM project at National (including > the later ICM-332? (I am under the impression it is dead). Last time I talked to technical support in Portland, I was told the ICM-3216 (or its latest incarnation, with a 32332, I think) was now being produced mainly to be used as a terminal frontend in National Advanced Systems mainframe products. Sounded like Computer Hell to me... -- A. Lester Buck ...!texbell!moray!siswat!buck